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Victoria Arduino Adonis 2 Group Digit Tripping RCD

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Posted (edited)

Updated:

 

The machine trips the rcd on the main consumer unit when the boiler water makes contact with the water level probe. What can be causing the short circuit?

 

I have checked for continuity between all the earth cables. I have installed a new element and new inlet solenoid.

 

I even had a electrician look at it and did not have any luck finding the cause.

 

Could it be a pcb failure?

 

Also if the boiler level probe is disconnected it doesn't trip the rcd but this overfills the boiler.

Edited by coffee-tec

Simonelli Aurelia T3 and Simonelli Mythos Grinder.

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Could be faulty heater element. Disconnect it to see if you still get trips.

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If it's not the boiler element (as tested above), then you need the services of a good espresso engineer.

Contact Simonelli UK, or ask your local coffeeshops for recommendations.

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Update:

 

I now know why the boiler is tripping the electrics. Very simple but hard to notice as the adonis doesn't have a sight glass that shows the water level in the boiler.

 

So the cause was a overfilled boiler which soaked the probe causing a trip.

 

So the problem I need to solve now is why is the boiler overfilling, maybe a failed relay on the pcb or a problem with the inlet solenoid?

 

Any thoughts?


Simonelli Aurelia T3 and Simonelli Mythos Grinder.

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Well having just had an overfilling boiler on a Simonelli machine, the fault with mine was a tiny piece of debris in the solenoid body allowing the water to carry on slowly filling the boiler despite the probe functioning and the solenoid being closed. Could be worth checking that as a start.

 

Thread was here; https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?49465-Steam-not-quot-clean-quot


Nuova Simonelli Personal 1 ¦ Mazzer SJ

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A slow filling up/overflow is usually due to a leaky inlet solenoid valve. Dismantle & clean it out. If you're in a hard water area, a wee descale of the valve may be necessary....or fit a new one if the rubber pad on the piston looks damaged.

PS The boiler will need to be drained first (!)

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Update:

 

The PCB is sent for a evaluation and hopefully a repair.

 

I'm not convinced its the valve body or solenoid because when I remove the probe from the boiler and place it in a jug with water so the probe is touching the water, the pump still remains activated. The probe is not telling the pcb to stop filling. Nevertheless I have dismantled and cleaned the valve body whilst awaiting the board.

 

Thanks for your input guys, any further advise welcome.


Simonelli Aurelia T3 and Simonelli Mythos Grinder.

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Update:

 

The PCB is sent for a evaluation and hopefully a repair.

 

I'm not convinced its the valve body or solenoid because when I remove the probe from the boiler and place it in a jug with water so the probe is touching the water, the pump still remains activated. The probe is not telling the pcb to stop filling. Nevertheless I have dismantled and cleaned the valve body whilst awaiting the board.

 

Thanks for your input guys, any further advise welcome.

 

Well it would, because unlike the boiler, the jug won't be earthed!


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Posted (edited)
Well it would, because unlike the boiler, the jug won't be earthed!

 

So its via the earthing its stops the fill. Understood.

 

correction: so the electrics only trips when the probe contacts the water. However if the earth is disconnected it doesn't trip!

Edited by coffee-tec

Simonelli Aurelia T3 and Simonelli Mythos Grinder.

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Try disconnecting the wire to the probe does the pump run, touch the wires connector to the boiler, does the pump stop. If yes, then there is nothing wrong. If this doesn't happen, check the connection in the wire to the PCB, make sure that connection is good.

 

You say the boiler is overfilling, but you don't say if the pump is running continuously, and if it was there would be a lot of water coming out. Disconnecting the earth and getting regular electric shocks might well mean the heating element insulation is allowing leakage of current and this will trip the RCD. I don't think it's necessarily the PCB, possible the heating element, or even multiple problems. If there is a voltage leakage the boiler probe may not work properly and if you disconnect it and it doesn't trip te RCD, perhaps look for a wiring fault. I would be a bit careful though. really I'm not very clear about your description of the problem.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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I have tried all the above. The pump seems to always run, regardless if the probe is connected or not. I have check the probe cable with a multi meter and it has continuity. I have tried a different cable for the probe. Same problem. The machine just doesn't want to stop filling and eventually overfills causing a trip. I have tried 3 other probes. Hence suspicious of the pcb.


Simonelli Aurelia T3 and Simonelli Mythos Grinder.

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Check that all the earth cables connections are firmly attached to the chassis & that the chassis earth wire/mains connection is nice & tight.

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Check that all the earth cables connections are firmly attached to the chassis & that the chassis earth wire/mains connection is nice & tight.

 

Yes I did this, I even put a brand new cable to the machine and cleaned all the earth connections and made sure everything was nice and tight, I even checked for continuity throughout all the earth connections and they all look okay.

 

I had a simonelli in the past that had a similar problem and a PCB repair resolved the problem. A faulty relay on the board was the cause. I just cant think of anything else.

 

Looking forward to getting the board back early next week. Hopefully this will resolve this ongoing saga for me.


Simonelli Aurelia T3 and Simonelli Mythos Grinder.

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With the machine off and at zero pressure but water on open a steamer and vent any sream/water when the water stops running from the steamer put a large jug under the steam arm and walk away, if after some time the jug has water in it then the inlet valve is letting by. To verify close the steamer (machine off water on) see if the anti vac closes and the steam pressure gauge starts to register pressure, if mains pressure is 1.3bar and the gauge gets to 1.3 bar and sits there you have found the over fill issue, regards the tripping the electrics I tend to agree with others that the element is leaking current to earth, probably a pin hole and probably on the top run, you could disconnect the poles or check them with a multi meter for resistance and continuity. What wattage is the element fitted out of interest?

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Posted (edited)

Hi @Sportwomble

 

I'm not convinced the inlet solenoid is letting by because the pump is continuously working and over filling extremely quickly. If I disconnect the solenoid then I can see the water is not getting to the boiler but the pump is still continuously running!

 

I just had the pcb back from repair and still have the overfilling issue. Why is the pump not stopping?

 

Is it the pcb that tells the pump to stop or the inlet solenoid? When the boiler overfills it then causing a trip on the rcd!

 

The element is a 6 pole 4500w currently running at 3000w. I was still having the tripping issue even when the element was disconnected. I have also checked the element for continuity and resistance and all checks out fine.

Edited by coffee-tec

Simonelli Aurelia T3 and Simonelli Mythos Grinder.

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The p b controls the filling of the boiler, it outputs a low DC voltage to the connection on the level sensor and when the water touches the sensor inside the tank the current is conducted to the earth leads and back to the pcb, when the current is detected by the pcb it cuts power to the inlet valve and the pump. I would start at the pcb end of the earth lead and the level probe lead

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If the pump stops when the level probe lead is "earthed" against the boiler casing, then the probe is faulty.

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If the pump stops when the level probe lead is "earthed" against the boiler casing, then the probe is faulty.

 

Do you mean if the pump doesn't stop?


Simonelli Aurelia T3 and Simonelli Mythos Grinder.

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I checked for continuity between the earth cable on the pcb and the earth on the the body and this was fine. I also checked the probe wire, this was also showing continuity. I tried 3 other probes, still same issue.

 

I ordered a new inlet solenoid and will fit this tomorrow but I don't think this will tell the pump to stop. Im confused. :starving:


Simonelli Aurelia T3 and Simonelli Mythos Grinder.

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Hi guys

 

Can a faulty capacitor on a pump cause the pump to continuously run?


Simonelli Aurelia T3 and Simonelli Mythos Grinder.

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Hi guys

 

Can a faulty capacitor on a pump cause the pump to continuously run?

 

No


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Update:

 

New Element fitted

New Inlet Solenoid with Body

 

Boiler is tripping the electrics as soon as the water level probe touches the water.

 

help.....


Simonelli Aurelia T3 and Simonelli Mythos Grinder.

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If the pump stops when the level probe lead is "earthed" against the boiler casing, then the probe is faulty.

 

The pump does stop as it trips the electrics.


Simonelli Aurelia T3 and Simonelli Mythos Grinder.

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As the probe cable goes direct to the pcb and the pcb has been verified OK, then there's an earthing defect somewhere......

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Or maybe Pcb still has a undetected fault....


Simonelli Aurelia T3 and Simonelli Mythos Grinder.

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