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Nick1881

Upgrade from Sage DTP - so many options

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In December last year I bought a Sage DTP and SGP as nice starter setup, at the time I thought it would be all I need. Turns out I'm enjoying making coffee way more than I thought I would.

 

I have already upgraded the grinder to a Niche Zero, now I want a shiny quality machine to match it.

 

The problem is that there seems to be loads of choice and so many options, DB, HX, E61, PID, pressure guages, plumbed or not, rotary vs vibration pump.

 

I generally only drink Americanos, but I do make a few Latte's for family, friends and visitors. The DTP takes aged to froth the milk and my Latte art sucks, not the machines fault.

 

My machine doesn't get huge use because I often work away, so I don't want to spend huge, but I also don't want to be eyeing up another upgrade in 6 months time.

 

It would be great if I could get a machine for £600-800 but I don't think it's realistic. I could push up to around £1200 for something that will be great.

 

I'd like fast warm up but will compromise with a smart plug.

I have just over 45cm height under my cupboards, worst case I won't be able to use the cup warmer, but I can heat cups with hot water. I don't want anything too big compared to the DTP, most machines seem deeper which won't be too bad.

 

Filling the water tank could be difficult, but I could run a filtered water line to the machine so the option to plumb in would be nice.

 

I saw on CafeItalia they have the Expobar Brewtus IV Leva Multiboiler Volumetric Pump for £1280 down from £2155, this seems very cheap and I heard some bad reviews about this seller. Is the machine good and suitable?

 

Others I have looked at

ECM

ACS Minima

Lelit

Bezzera

Quickmill

Rocket

 

Bella Barista is only an hour from me so I will go visit at some point.

 

I would consider secondhand but I'm impatient and already been tempted by a few, also watching for anything else popping up. It's hard when I don't know so much.

 

Any help and advice would be much appreciated.


Niche Zero, Lelit Bianca, Claris Ultra filter, Torr Tamper with NickNak handle, BT Wedge distribution tool, Felicita ARC scales, MildredM towels. Fully converted by Coffee Forums UK.

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Caffe Italia have a poor reputation for after sales service.

Go and Look at BB as you have listed every machine there, so unsure what you want as an opinion.


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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I'm just looking for recommendations for a machine that will suit my use. I don't want to tinker with something too much, pressure profiles etc sounds complicated.

 

Will I benefit from a dual boiler for my use? I'm generally only making one cup of coffee at a time.

 

Is the Expobar a good enough deal to risk any problems from Cafe Italia? I am an engineer, though I've never fixed a coffee machine before, it's probably something I could do, especially with some help/guidance.


Niche Zero, Lelit Bianca, Claris Ultra filter, Torr Tamper with NickNak handle, BT Wedge distribution tool, Felicita ARC scales, MildredM towels. Fully converted by Coffee Forums UK.

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I wouldn't buy from cafe italia full stop, whatever machine.

You have read some of the experiences on threads here, is it worth the risk IMHO. No....

Read the review of the minima on here, if you want a good value machine with little tinkering then it seems to tick alot of boxes for you.

A dual boiler will remove the need for faffing around with cooking flushes of a hx machine.


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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If you live an hour away from BB I think it’s a no-brainer. Every machine you listed is there, switched on and ready to be demonstrated or for you to try pulling a shot. Their customer service is excellent and after sales service second to none and backed with a transferable 2 yr warranty.


Niche Grinder, Decent Espresso tamper, V60, CCD, Aeropress, French Press, Moka pot, Kinu M47, Feldgrind, Porlex Mini, Kawasaki Versys 650 mk1

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^^^This.

No matter what else anyone here advises, there is no substitute to seeing the machines in the flesh. There have been several incidents of people going to BB with one machine in mind only to leave with a different cheaper machine that'll fit their workflow better.


Laissez les bons temps rouler

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Just done the upgrade exactly the same setup , from dtp with niche to sage dB ... at £779 on sage website it’s a good price and solves the problems for you.

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Just done the upgrade exactly the same setup , from dtp with niche to sage dB ... at £779 on sage website it’s a good price and solves the problems for you.

 

I really rate the sage DB too (and that’s after owning an E61 machine. It’s not your traditional shiny espresso machine and not for everyone.

 

I can’t see that £779 price though.


Sage DB; Mazzer Major; VST 15g, 18g & 20g Baskets;TORR Trapez & Perger Tamper

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I really rate the sage DB too (and that’s after owning an E61 machine. It’s not your traditional shiny espresso machine and not for everyone.

 

I can’t see that £779 price though.

 

have a look in the deals section , you need to enter the code :)

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have a look in the deals section , you need to enter the code :)

 

;) It almost tempts me to buy another one and have 2.

 

John

-


In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A,. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

SageBanner_v01.jpg.a45786743a4eb401969788b45ae7f893.jpg

 

 

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I’m reluctant to stick with Sage, I read they are difficult to work on and repairs cost a premium. Not sure what the DB steam power is like.

 

Also the E61 machines look so shiny and nice, worth paying more for I think.


Niche Zero, Lelit Bianca, Claris Ultra filter, Torr Tamper with NickNak handle, BT Wedge distribution tool, Felicita ARC scales, MildredM towels. Fully converted by Coffee Forums UK.

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You're so close to BB you should definitely go there and see the machines in person. You may end up walking out with a machine that isn't even on your list


LR, ZM

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You're so close to BB you should definitely go there and see the machines in person. You may end up walking out with a machine that isn't even on your list

 

I will definitely visit BB as soon as I can, maybe this week.


Niche Zero, Lelit Bianca, Claris Ultra filter, Torr Tamper with NickNak handle, BT Wedge distribution tool, Felicita ARC scales, MildredM towels. Fully converted by Coffee Forums UK.

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I took a trip to Bella Barista today.

 

ACS Minima - makes great tasting coffee, runs pretty quiet for a vibe pump, not totally sold on the looks or build quality, no option to plumb in, small drip tray.

 

ECM Mechanika - A little over my budget but great build quality, no PID but it's meant to be very stable, no shot timer either. Rotary pump and able to be plumbed in, I'm very tempted by this.

 

Lelit Bianca - Sadly quite a bit more than I want to pay but otherwise it has everything, I just don't want to spend so much.

 

The Profitec machines from the 500 upwards all look good too, sadly the 700 is out of my budget but ticks all boxes.

 

I really want to be plumbed in, I'm going to struggle to fill anything else from the top.

 

I'm still drawn to the Expobar, sadly BB don't currently sell it, apparently new models are coming.


Niche Zero, Lelit Bianca, Claris Ultra filter, Torr Tamper with NickNak handle, BT Wedge distribution tool, Felicita ARC scales, MildredM towels. Fully converted by Coffee Forums UK.

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I ran a mechanika plumbed in for a couple of years - it was magnificent.

 

Didn’t miss a beat and was a joy to own.

 

Super temp stable too if u know how to use it


Sage Bambino - BWT Bestmax - Niche in Black. Aeropress and Aergrind

 

Live and Let Live

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Your very good at sticking to budget! I wanted an appartamento at the start now my budget has about doubled!

 

The way I see it is over 10 to 15 years the extra isn't too much. Your going to be looking and using the machine everyday so go for the one u want, not the one within your initial budget.

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Yip! I joined here thinking no more than £500 on a new machine and ended up buying a L-R :)


LR, ZM

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Yip! I joined here thinking no more than £500 on a new machine and ended up buying a L-R :)

 

Yea, I was quite happy with my little Sage DTP, then I spent too much time here.


Niche Zero, Lelit Bianca, Claris Ultra filter, Torr Tamper with NickNak handle, BT Wedge distribution tool, Felicita ARC scales, MildredM towels. Fully converted by Coffee Forums UK.

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More time here definitely results in more spending! I am a Sage DB owner but have recently acquired a Profitec Pro 500 from Ebay- I realise a step down in one sense as it's a HX machine, but I was desperate to own an E61 machine and learn how to service/ maintain it. It's also been interesting pulling shots from both with the same beans and comparing the taste. When I get more time I will start a thread about this but am too busy at work at the moment.


Sage DB, Mazzer Major, Mazzer Mini Doser (decaf), Orphan Espresso Lido 2 hand grinder (chemex)

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More time here definitely results in more spending! I am a Sage DB owner but have recently acquired a Profitec Pro 500 from Ebay- I realise a step down in one sense as it's a HX machine, but I was desperate to own an E61 machine and learn how to service/ maintain it. It's also been interesting pulling shots from both with the same beans and comparing the taste. When I get more time I will start a thread about this but am too busy at work at the moment.

 

That would certainly be an interesting comparison.

 

Well i have ordered a machine, I’m really sorry but I’ve gone against the advice above and ordered from that place. I hope I don’t end up in a situation where you guys say ‘I told you so’.

 

The Expobar was the only machine that ticked all my boxes and was in budget. The ECM is a really nice machine but £250 more. I desperately wanted to buy from BB as they seem excellent, if I had found the ideal machine in budget yesterday I would have left with it.

 

I have ordered on my card and was told 9 days for delivery as the machine is built to order and shipped from the manufacturer. If anything goes wrong I will cancel the order and if needed get my bank to sort out the refund.

 

The machine is a little high but I found a thread here where someone had replaced the feet, I have already ordered the same feet.

 

Next i want a VST 18g ridgeless basket and I naked portafilter, I will order these later though. I may also look at a different tamper, depending on what the one it comes with it like.


Niche Zero, Lelit Bianca, Claris Ultra filter, Torr Tamper with NickNak handle, BT Wedge distribution tool, Felicita ARC scales, MildredM towels. Fully converted by Coffee Forums UK.

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That would certainly be an interesting comparison.

 

Well i have ordered a machine, I’m really sorry but I’ve gone against the advice above and ordered from that place. I hope I don’t end up in a situation where you guys say ‘I told you so’.

 

The Expobar was the only machine that ticked all my boxes and was in budget. The ECM is a really nice machine but £250 more. I desperately wanted to buy from BB as they seem excellent, if I had found the ideal machine in budget yesterday I would have left with it.

 

I have ordered on my card and was told 9 days for delivery as the machine is built to order and shipped from the manufacturer. If anything goes wrong I will cancel the order and if needed get my bank to sort out the refund.

 

The machine is a little high but I found a thread here where someone had replaced the feet, I have already ordered the same feet.

 

Next i want a VST 18g ridgeless basket and I naked portafilter, I will order these later though. I may also look at a different tamper, depending on what the one it comes with it like.

Hope it goes well and you don't have to get a refund, previously they have charged admin fees and people have not got the full amount back without some hassle.

Are we talking bout cafe italia that list it as "in stock " : ) . I hope they are telling the truth as BB told you they were waiting in a new model update ( which suggest expobar are not making the old one ? )


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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Hope it goes well and you don't have to get a refund, previously they have charged admin fees and people have not got the full amount back without some hassle.

Are we talking bout cafe italia that list it as "in stock " : ) . I hope they are telling the truth as BB told you they were waiting in a new model update ( which suggest expobar are not making the old one ? )

 

I called them and they said this model with Rotary pump is made to order. BB said new models should be coming by around June/July.

 

I do do hope that the current model really is still being made. Watch this space.


Niche Zero, Lelit Bianca, Claris Ultra filter, Torr Tamper with NickNak handle, BT Wedge distribution tool, Felicita ARC scales, MildredM towels. Fully converted by Coffee Forums UK.

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'Made to order' sounds so much better than 'we're box shifters & hold no stock'. Good luck with any warranty repairs if you need any. In the past their 'authorised' repairers have claimed to know nothing of the arrangement.

Edited by ashcroc

Laissez les bons temps rouler

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I called coffee Italia before, asked about warranty. They said they had a warranty center in Dublin. I asked for the address and they would not give it, just an area it was in. I then tried to find a registered company in Ireland with the same name and couldn't find any. This was a giveaway that no such warranty would exist.

 

If you literally type into Google coffee Italia reviews, some of the stories are shocking.

 

Let's hope it doesn't happen to you. I would definetly pay the extra bit for piece of mind.

 

If u ask for a refund through your bank etc money could be on hold for a number of months before things are sorted.

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I just called Coffee Italia to check my payment had gone through, my bank initially blocked it and sent me a text from the fraud department, a bad sign? lol I guess just because it's a large transaction to Italy. CA said payment is fine and the machine will ship on Monday.

 

I'm just ordering all the water connection parts I need including a pressure reducing valve, I read I need 2 bar water pressure.

 

The Whole Latte Love website has a very good manual about how to set the pressures so I will do that during install too.

 

Lets see if I end up with a working machine delivered in one piece.


Niche Zero, Lelit Bianca, Claris Ultra filter, Torr Tamper with NickNak handle, BT Wedge distribution tool, Felicita ARC scales, MildredM towels. Fully converted by Coffee Forums UK.

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