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With almost everything at work being done to drive sustainability, eco friendliness and saving the world in general (they even bought every single employee an ecoffee cup- yes it is has our branding on...), I thought I would give a milk alternative a go!

 

However, at roughly 4 times the price of standard milk, does anyone know of any sites that will do bulk purchase?

 

This saving the world planet is expensive...


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This saving the world planet is expensive...

 

It can be...yes. Fortunately there are many free things we can all do, some far more effective than the ones you mention to save the planet. If cost is a problem, do one of those free things instead. Often they are orders of magnitude more effective.


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It can be...yes. Fortunately there are many free things we can all do, some far more effective than the ones you mention to save the planet. If cost is a problem, do one of those free things instead. Often they are orders of magnitude more effective.

 

Myself and my girlfriend try and help where we can. We both walk to work (30 mins each), we have cut down meat consumption to almost nothing, we grow as much of our own veg as possible, don’t use any plastic bags in supermarkets for fruit/veg we do buy, etc etc..

 

But I can’t ignore all the people around blasting dairy facts around, it seems quite a bad factor on the environment...


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But I can’t ignore all the people around blasting dairy facts around, it seems quite a bad factor on the environment...

 

You are doing your bit, so don't worry about the self appointed high priests who pontificate about what can and can't be eaten or produced. Let them focus their ire on meat production - far greater problem for the environment or air travel.

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But I can’t ignore all the people around blasting dairy facts around, it seems quite a bad factor on the environment...

 

A lifetime of experience has taught me one thing....when they market to us they are doing it for their benefit, no one elses. A lot of this environmental stuff is marketing and for profit.

 

Oat Milk is a heavily processed product, as are the other dairy substitutes with various things added e.g. rapeseed oil, or similar. It is very profitable for them as are other heavily processed products. My general rule of thumb has been the more natural a product (if that's even a thing) the better it tends to be for the environment/planet. If you don't like milk or can't handle it, then sure use a dairy substitute. If you like milk and want to save the planet then many other things, some of which you mention are far far more effective.

 

Your walking to work is hugely effective in it's environmental impact...as would be cycling, a more economical and smaller car. Other things like deciding to change an appliance and keeping it for an extra year...fixing something instead of buying a new one, or a prosumer coffee machine that lasts 2 decades instead of 5 years. If you have a lawn, not watering it is another huge environmental impact. A million people switching to Oat milk would probably not make up for the environmental impact of 10 people with a green lawn all summer. If we did all switch to a milk substitute....I wonder what would happen...when I used to fly gliders I saw the countryside change over the course of a few decades from fields full of diverse crops to a sea of oilseed rape. This lack of diversity is hugely damaging and the farmers know it. It's a profitable crop, but at what cost because whenever something starts to be produced at a large scale...somehow it all goes wrong.

 

If it were me and if you like milk...perhaps simply do some of the other (free) things instead....eg. I use no pesticides of any kind in my garden...saves money, better for the environment, I use less washing powder than recommended, cooler cycle but longer wash...saves money, better for the environment. Line dry clothes...saves money, better for the environment.


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Mass rearing of cattle is one of the most damaging things to the planet. Dairy cows only live a third as long as a cow destined to go in your burger, but require more food and all the hormones to keep them continually lactating.

 

The UK would need to cull something like a third (or even half) of its cattle to meet upcoming CO2 emissions targets.

 

Supermarkets ruthlessly drive down the cost of milk (still) to the point where dairy farmers will do anything (however damaging to the environment) to stay profitable.

 

Call it marketing or hysteria or nonsense but cows have to stop being mass reared if our planet is to survive.

 

[My opinion]

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Personally, someone else can save the planet......I fully expect many will not agree with me, but this new breed of eco warrior does not interest me. Selfish, probably but I guess if you bang the drum enough then as new generations come though, it will be taught to be built in.....so I will continue to put proper milk in my coffee and the thought of becoming vegetarian is enough to send shivers down my spine

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Personally, someone else can save the planet......I fully expect many will not agree with me, but this new breed of eco warrior does not interest me. Selfish, probably but I guess if you bang the drum enough then as new generations come though, it will be taught to be built in.....so I will continue to put proper milk in my coffee and the thought of becoming vegetarian is enough to send shivers down my spine

 

veggie isn't good enough now Dave....you have to be vegan to have any street cred.

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Mass rearing of cattle is one of the most damaging things to the planet. Dairy cows only live a third as long as a cow destined to go in your burger, but require more food and all the hormones to keep them continually lactating.

 

The UK would need to cull something like a third (or even half) of its cattle to meet upcoming CO2 emissions targets.

 

Supermarkets ruthlessly drive down the cost of milk (still) to the point where dairy farmers will do anything (however damaging to the environment) to stay profitable.

 

Call it marketing or hysteria or nonsense but cows have to stop being mass reared if our planet is to survive.

 

[My opinion]

 

60 Million Buffalo roamed the plains of just North America not that long ago...there are 265 Million dairy cows in the world....Animals were farting their way across the world for Millennia before we and the environmental movement was ever around. Now sure whenever you produce anything in bulk it's bad for the environment, but all these other bloately and suchlike products would have the same impact...it's why I mentioned oil seed rape...

 

The world and the environmentalists really have bigger problems to fix than a few hormonally challenged farting dairy cows. I'll list a few

 

Nuclear Waste, safety and decommisioning

Other developing countries building their Industrial sectors

Wars, biological weapons and disease


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Posted (edited)

Ah so if I promise to destroy my NBC arsenal and swerve McDonald's, I can continue to have real milk in my coffee in good faith? Deal.

 

The mass rearing of human children is another of the most damaging things for the planet. (Dons tin hat and ducks!) This is never mentioned but it's the elephant in the room. Just deemed 'not open to debate' - because what we really mean is "Save the planet a bit longer so we can have children who can then have the resources"

 

I probably seem flippant but it's more nihilism. So much population growth, fewer resources. I do agree we should try to live responsibly but given the complexity of environmental issues (quite apart from getting everyone in every country to go along with it), I think the only way for the planet to survive is for humanity to be booted off it. I've done my bit by not having kids, so I'll keep my cappuccino in exchange. I heard on Radio 4 earlier this week that in 25 years time there will not be enough drinking water in the UK for the predicted population. I bet there will still be golf courses though...

 

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On a serious note?? Buy some shares in Sirius minerals. You will make a handsome profit and help save the planet but you will have to wait until five years after they start mining to see any return. After that, the company will have a licence to print money. They will be digging up polyhalite which is a wonder fertilizer. The site in Yorkshire is good for around 100yrs production.


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I think with the rising demand for non dairy milk, prices in general will go down.

Well done on reusable cups front too! Great to see the company taking initiative and responsibility. You might want to mention to them, especially if you've got an office coffee machine that Novell Coffee do coffee pods that are 100% compostable within 12 weeks! 

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On 20/03/2019 at 14:27, DavecUK said:

 

60 Million Buffalo roamed the plains of just North America not that long ago...there are 265 Million dairy cows in the world....Animals were farting their way across the world for Millennia before we and the environmental movement was ever around. Now sure whenever you produce anything in bulk it's bad for the environment, but all these other bloately and suchlike products would have the same impact...it's why I mentioned oil seed rape...

 

The world and the environmentalists really have bigger problems to fix than a few hormonally challenged farting dairy cows. I'll list a few

 

Nuclear Waste, safety and decommisioning

Other developing countries building their Industrial sectors

Wars, biological weapons and disease

Have to say you're either being deliberately misleading here or you're ignorant of the actual issues. Methane gas production is just one aspect of the environmental damage caused by dairy farming. There's all the emissions that go with the industrial production of dairy too, as well as the incredible amount of water used both to keep the cows going as well as to clean the equipment and areas of dairy production, as well as irrigation of the land. It's not made up that dairy is bad for the environment, it is a scientific fact with numerous studies and even reviews backing this up. It's not contestable that a large scale change in people's diet could have a massive effect on climate change, it is again a fact. 

 

Oat milk creates less emissions, uses less water and uses less land than dairy, even when accounting for all constituent parts of it. Again, this is backed up by science instead of just being a feeling you have with jokey commentary. 

 

As for climate change issues coming from development in other countries, yes that's an issue too. The reality however is that other countries are hardly going to see it as fair that the west destroyed the world for profit and now wants to stop the global south from doing the same as it's all gone a bit too far now. People in the west have to make some adjustments in return for their (our) privileged lives, but also western governments should essentially pay off other countries to not do further damage in the environment through development of industry.

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On 21/03/2019 at 13:56, The Systemic Kid said:

On a serious note?? Buy some shares in Sirius minerals. You will make a handsome profit and help save the planet but you will have to wait until five years after they start mining to see any return. After that, the company will have a licence to print money. They will be digging up polyhalite which is a wonder fertilizer. The site in Yorkshire is good for around 100yrs production.

And all that lovely polyhalite is going to China, every last bit of it.

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33 minutes ago, HBLP said:

Have to say you're either being deliberately misleading here or you're ignorant of the actual issues.

Perhaps I'm just ignorant...as you obviously feel 100% confident in what you are saying and all the "facts" you are mentioning..


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On 20/03/2019 at 11:56, fatboyslim said:

Dairy cows only live a third as long as a cow destined to go in your burger

Thats not true. Cattle killed for meat are generally in their first or second year, dairy Cattle can have many productive years of milking. Older cattle are culled and used for meat, but that’s when they’re no longer suitable for breeding or milking. That’s where shit supermarket mince and Pukka pies come from.

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Just now, DavecUK said:

Perhaps I'm just ignorant...as you obviously feel 100% confident in what you are saying and all the "facts" you are mentioning..

I mean I didn't say any of it flippantly, and was searching and checking my beliefs on google scholar before I made the claims, as I think should be the standard if looking to discuss something scientific like climate change. 

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Whatever you lot are on, you definitely need to reduce the dosage!

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