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jt196

Roaster Upgrade from Gene Cafe (Quest M3?)

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Folks - got the bug a little on the roasting side of things and I'd be interested in getting a roaster that offers a little more control than the Gene. I currently have an unmodded Gene and I'm thinking about stepping up to something with a little more control, rather than modding the Gene. I've read around a little and the Quest M3 seems like a logical next step, though the Cormorant seems like an amazing machine, I think I'd benefit from a little practice with a slightly lower budget/capacity machine with finer controls like the Quest.

 

Anybody in the process of upgrading wants to pass on something to a loving home. If yes, I'll have a Gene for sale.

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Folks - got the bug a little on the roasting side of things and I'd be interested in getting a roaster that offers a little more control than the Gene. I currently have an unmodded Gene and I'm thinking about stepping up to something with a little more control, rather than modding the Gene. I've read around a little and the Quest M3 seems like a logical next step, though the Cormorant seems like an amazing machine, I think I'd benefit from a little practice with a slightly lower budget/capacity machine with finer controls like the Quest.

 

Anybody in the process of upgrading wants to pass on something to a loving home. If yes, I'll have a Gene for sale.

 

The quest is more pleasant to use and has a reasonable level of control. It's a nice little roaster, built a bit like a Swiss watch. I certainly used to enjoy mine before I sold it. I have not read any proper reviews on the comorant roaster, what do you feel is amazing about it?


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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what do you feel is amazing about it?

 

Superficially it looks like a very well built, handsome, British made machine by a small scale manufacturer. 600g bean capacity at that price point is also a plus. My impression was that it's a little less automated than others on the market - so you're relying on your probes to help run the roast, so a bit more hands on. Reports I've read have been positive but you never know whether this is purchasing confirmation bias or not.

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Reports I've read have been positive but you never know whether this is purchasing confirmation bias or not.

 

This is always a potential problem if someone buys something and also if they get it free. Some people get free products review and sell them on, reviews are always positive and usually no trustworthy, Amazon is full of such reviews as is Youtube. I have seen a few products (not all coffee related) where I actually owned them and they were definitely crap getting glowing reviews on Youtube/Amazon. I have many a time seen a machine/roaster/grinder discussed on forums with owners giving glowing reports about them, when I have actually tested same and found them so wanting I recommended retailers not stock them they were that bad. I rarely if ever said anything about these products over the years, I learnt over a decade ago that such comments were not welcome and within a year or two the products usually die away. Sure some people have to bite the bullet on a bad product or offload them onto some unsuspecting punter...but such is life.

 

Just to make it crystal clear, I am not talking about the Cormorant roaster, I have not reviewed one and don't know a huge amount about it.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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For Amazon/Tripadvisor pages these days I almost always end up pasting the page into fakespot.com - they analyse the reviews looking at how many the reviewer has made, whether they're all postive etc and grade the page accordingly. Seems like you can't rely on positive reviews at all these days. So, fake reviews and folks justifying spending their hard-earned is definitely a minefield to plough through.

 

In terms of the Cormorant, it seems like a very well built, small batch workshop in the UK makes it. It seems comparable in price and quality to the Huky roaster - but with a smaller footprint. Comments are saying that build quality and controlability exceeds the Quest. It runs on gas and low voltage current, has a very small footprint as well. I'm not totally convinced about using gas over electric, but I hear there's more control with gas. Unfortunately as they're made in batches of 5, so the wait is quite long last I heard. It does look to me like an exceptionally well-built machine, though I can't comment too much as I'm not too deep into the roasting game yet.

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@jt196 what is the price point of the cormorant. Their web site seems to be rather coy on the subject and it could be included and updated rather quickly as needed. :) Amazon etc reviews ? I often find them useful but a lot depends on how many there are. Lots is favourite First thing I do is look at the worst as sometimes it worth seeing if the problem may have something to do with the user or some other problem not related to the item also expectations on price and performance etc. I leave a rating at times especially if I see an insane one that knocks the product in an unreasonable fashion. It's also worth remembering that people are more inclined to react to problems than the lack of them. John -

In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Profitec T64. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A, Ceado 37J. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

:pToo many filter baskets - maybe. For sale when I get round to it. Robur Elect, Ceado 37J, Ascaso i_1,Piccino

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@ajohn they're retailing at around £1400 I believe which is a very good price for a 600g roaster.

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Thanks. I was more curious than intending to buy. I have the small Gene and intend to play around with that. ;) Time and a place to play is a bit of a problem at the moment but that shouldn't be for that much longer.

 

John

-


In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Profitec T64. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A, Ceado 37J. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

:pToo many filter baskets - maybe. For sale when I get round to it. Robur Elect, Ceado 37J, Ascaso i_1,Piccino

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The quest is more pleasant to use and has a reasonable level of control. It's a nice little roaster, built a bit like a Swiss watch. I certainly used to enjoy mine before I sold it. I have not read any proper reviews on the comorant roaster, what do you feel is amazing about it?

 

The Quest is a very good learning tool - but sorry, Swiss watch it is not. When I had mine and decided to upgrade the drum to a newer rear perforated version - it arrived so out of true it was laughable.

 

By comparison the Cormorant is beautifully put together. Does it have it’s foibles yes of course - but the new price is virtually identical to the Quest. It’s made locally here near Oxford. Its an absolute breeze to clean unlike the Quest.

 

The Quest is however very good with smaller batches of 100-200g. I believe the inherent lag in it’s heating elements - makes it behave in a similar fashion to a larger production roaster with much greater thermal mass, though airflow can be a problem depending on which version you have.

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I had one of the first quests, thicker drum well made and £650 or £800 or less. It sounds like things may have changed a lot over the years.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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The main housing is pretty much the same - the later models changed the position of the trier and the rotation of the drum, introduced a new air inlet and a chaff collection pull out trough. The drum is also thinner with a rear perforation to allow proper airflow through the roaster. There is also a perforated drum option.

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So had word from Johan @ Cormorant. RRP is £1595, plus £100 if you want it coloured. They make only 60 machines per year, so unfortunately the waiting list is quite long - currently January 2020 is the lead time. I really like what I've seen and read about the machine, even though I think I've a lot more to learn to be able to use it to it's fullest extent! I've put my name on the list, but as I understand I'm not locked into buying the machine by doing this.

 

So in the meantime, may be on the lookout for a Quest or some such 250g machine at around the £600 mark second hand.

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The thing that gets me about the larger capacity machines is units like this one is the size

 

https://www.toper.com/products/1077/cafem%C4%B1no-electr%C4%B1cal.aspx

 

1kg but some youtube sources reckon that machines generally wont roast their full capacity that well - pass. The only way to find out for sure is to try.

 

Personally I wasn't that disappointed with my 3rd roast on the small Gene. Best not mention the first 2 but the 2nd one may have improved if I had cleaned the air inlet but suspect not.

 

I do wonder about the usual mod. Why regulate temperature via an external dimmer and power meter. To me it seems simpler to use the dimmer and measure the temperature directly. Costs a bit more but still affordable. I used a length of semi rigid aluminium ducting to vent out of a window. It stretches to various lengths but wont collapse easily afterwards so wonder if I can still get sound out with a short length plus some of the usual flexible springy ducting. Also wonder about the cooling cycle. Might be better to tip them out.

 

John

-


In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Profitec T64. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A, Ceado 37J. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

:pToo many filter baskets - maybe. For sale when I get round to it. Robur Elect, Ceado 37J, Ascaso i_1,Piccino

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I do wonder about the usual mod. Why regulate temperature via an external dimmer and power meter. To me it seems simpler to use the dimmer and measure the temperature directly. Costs a bit more but still affordable.

 

John

-

 

Do you mean stick another probe in front of the heating element and have the readout on a display in front of you while you use the dimmer to increase/decrease rather than focus on power draw?


Expobar DB Office Leva IV, La Pavoni Professional -- FOR SALE: MBK HEFT, Torr Goldfinger Titan Convex & 58.55 Flat -- Ceado E8, Lido E, Pharos VDD -- 2 and 5 cup Syphons; Vintage Nicro Metal Filter -- Gene Cafe CBR101 with Dimmer Mod and Bean Mass Probe

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@jt196 I'm very happy with my Cormorant, I haven't done very many roasts yet so still getting to grips with It. Very happy with the Quality of the roaster, It seems the wait list is getting longer. I'm really enjoying the beans from my last roast, but the previous 2 roasts went in the bin, too dark and oily. roasting at 500g so quite a lot more beans to lose than the 250g of the Gene.

Londinium I / Monolith Conical / Macap MC4 / Gene Cafe Roaster / Cormorant CR600 Roaster

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[quote name='iroko']@jt196 I'm really enjoying the beans from my last roast, but the previous 2 roasts went in the bin, too dark and oily. roasting at 500g so quite a lot more beans to lose than the 250g of the Gene.[/QUOTE] So less of a criticism of the unit and more a getting to grips user error then? James

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I do wonder about the usual mod. Why regulate temperature via an external dimmer and power meter. To me it seems simpler to use the dimmer and measure the temperature directly. Costs a bit more but still affordable.-

 

Because by not measuring power you are not comparing apples with apples to get reproducible roasts or results you can meaningfully share with others. You also have no forward idea of how the roaster is liable to react as voltage and hence power changes.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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So less of a criticism of the unit and more a getting to grips user error then? James

 

No criticism of the roaster, just user error. A lot more to think about than the Gene.


Londinium I / Monolith Conical / Macap MC4 / Gene Cafe Roaster / Cormorant CR600 Roaster

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Guys what is reasonable And the best batch size for stock unmodified quest ?

 

Now im on the market for a roaster And would be nice to roast 200g at a time.

 

 

Wysłane z iPhone za pomocą Tapatalk

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Depends on voltage consistency in your area. Wise to buy a meter to check. UK voltage The UK supply is 230 V +10% - 6%. That can mean is can drop as low as 215v. Alternatively, you might be lucky and find yourself being supplied at the upper end - anything up to 253v. If your voltage is at the upper range, you can roast up to 250grms in one batch on a Quest but 150grm - 200gm is the usual batch range.


Londinium-R - EKS43 running SSP Silver Knight burrs

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Do you mean stick another probe in front of the heating element and have the readout on a display in front of you while you use the dimmer to increase/decrease rather than focus on power draw?

 

Yes essentially. Position to measure the airflow temperature at it's exit from the hot air unit. I already have a digital meter for K type thermocouples. If any interest I'll post details when I do it.

 

John

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In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Profitec T64. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A, Ceado 37J. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

:pToo many filter baskets - maybe. For sale when I get round to it. Robur Elect, Ceado 37J, Ascaso i_1,Piccino

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Yeah that's an interesting idea. I wouldn't want to drill a hole in the heating element enclosure, though you could just seal it afterwards. You might just be able to slip a probe in through the front.


Expobar DB Office Leva IV, La Pavoni Professional -- FOR SALE: MBK HEFT, Torr Goldfinger Titan Convex & 58.55 Flat -- Ceado E8, Lido E, Pharos VDD -- 2 and 5 cup Syphons; Vintage Nicro Metal Filter -- Gene Cafe CBR101 with Dimmer Mod and Bean Mass Probe

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Anyone here using BT, ET, and MET digital probes on quest? I would like to know what probe and where to put it for MET readings. Or maybe with such a small roaster MET readings are not necessary

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