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Agentb

The Niche and getting it level in the PF - is this going to work?

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OK I keep fidgeting when i transfer the coffee into the PF from the cup, and sometimes we have the Alps, other times the Cotswolds but never close to flat....

 

I saw the little home made whisks and thought yes, that's what i need, i can make one of them and give it a little whisk before tamping.

 

So i had an old whisk and pinged off a loop and thought hmmmmm that shape reminds me of something...

 

 

 

So i made this instead.

 

i-CZJ4gqm-L.jpg

 

and put it here

i-P3d2PtR-L.jpg

 

 

 

...and twist the cup a couple of times on the PF and carefully remove the cup.

 

I've only tried two shots so far too early to say much other than

 

it seems level...

 

there is a little bit of coffee sticking to the wire (0.1g approx), and a tap seems to free it.

 

I can still get my chopstick in to give the grinds a stir if they look clumpy.

 

I have no idea if i should change the shape or angle or length.... or go back to cannibalizing the whisk...

 

What do the Niche tifosi think? :bad::good:

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It's repeatable unlike knocking grinds side ways or the cocktail shaking method I have seen on one video so could work rather well.

 

John

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Video in action please
Hmm a video clip of clip action lol, not sure i have the skills or spare hand for that but i'll try some photos of what the PF looks like after several attempts. Is that ok?

 

This morning i spun it around just 360 and did not make it as flat as i wanted, last night i span it around a couple of times, problem is i can't see what is going on inside the cup PF while i'm doing it.... :good:

 

I could buy a lot of whisks for that... :p

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Is this not just a case of splitting the atom......I doubt if very many people, could be presented several shots and be able to identify what meths produced what shot......ok, first to admit my taste buds are not the most delicate but there has to be a line at which we say stop!

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I should have been a little clearer about levels... i find with the niche as you are effectively pouring from one side, if i don't fidget with the grinds (do they feel the same?) - it's often (for me) not level after tamping- it's like it's the more dense is on one side usually when the Alps appears and i've moved the less dense coffee away down into the valley below. It may look level...

 

After tamping, one side will be 1-2 mm higher than the opposite side, and then i see the the extraction favouring one side, and that has to make a difference? I suspect i'm probably tamping harder on the high side as well.

 

I suspect if you measured the density of freshly ground coffee in a pile, at the bottom is considerably more than the top, and as long as you dose into a PF that probably doesn't matter, as it layers naturally. I took some photos and will post them later - the jury is still out at the moment..:good:

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@Agentb

If you tamp correctly, or use those spinning tools then it it pretty easy to get a perfectly level tamp

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Are you shaking the grinds before putting into the portafilter ?


AKA Toffee chips

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I should have been a little clearer about levels... i find with the niche as you are effectively pouring from one side, if i don't fidget with the grinds (do they feel the same?) - it's often (for me) not level after tamping- it's like it's the more dense is on one side usually when the Alps appears and i've moved the less dense coffee away down into the valley below. It may look level...

 

After tamping, one side will be 1-2 mm higher than the opposite side, and then i see the the extraction favouring one side, and that has to make a difference? I suspect i'm probably tamping harder on the high side as well.

 

I suspect if you measured the density of freshly ground coffee in a pile, at the bottom is considerably more than the top, and as long as you dose into a PF that probably doesn't matter, as it layers naturally. I took some photos and will post them later - the jury is still out at the moment..:good:

 

Sounds like you aren't tamping properly. Ideally you'll have the coffee distributed in the basket so it's an even density throughout before tamping, this will mean that the bed is level before you tamp but if it isn't you should still have a level bed after the tamp you'll just have some areas more compressed than others.

 

I like your little mod though.


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Are you shaking the grinds before putting into the portafilter ?
Shake, like you might say an icecube in a whisky glass, sometimes.

 

Shake like a cocktail mixer with the PF attached, cha cha cha, no.

 

It's just put the PF on top of the cup and flip it over and give it tap.

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Sounds like you aren't tamping properly. Ideally you'll have the coffee distributed in the basket so it's an even density throughout before tamping, this will mean that the bed is level before you tamp but if it isn't you should still have a level bed after the tamp you'll just have some areas more compressed than others.

 

I like your little mod though.

 

Thanks Rob, it took longer to post the thread than make... lol.

 

Like i said i can get a even tamp if if i fidget around with the distribution. If i don't, i have to go back and press hard on the high side and that seems wrong.

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Thanks Rob, it took longer to post the thread than make... lol.

 

Like i said i can get a even tamp if if i fidget around with the distribution. If i don't, i have to go back and press hard on the high side and that seems wrong.

 

You can make me one then :)


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FWIW getting level grounds before tamping isn’t difficult with a WDT tool.

 

Some shots from my puck preparation. Grind into cocktail shaker cup, shake a bit, transfer to portafilter with a funnel on, WDT, tap, tamp.

 

Prepared before tamping:

7ac4b73bf9135ab049b0a0bb601e0fdd.jpg

 

Level-ish tamp

db4450342aee5a6202c4fea89efeff4d.jpg

 

Post tamp:

871b3063924fbd5aa30d672f821c773d.jpg

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You can make me one then :)

 

Or remove the spring clip in Your portafilter and make it yourself lazy boy


AKA Toffee chips

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Shake, like you might say an icecube in a whisky glass, sometimes.

 

Shake like a cocktail mixer with the PF attached, cha cha cha, no.

 

It's just put the PF on top of the cup and flip it over and give it tap.

 

Due to the difference in particle size caused with this grinder single dosing you really need to give the grinds a good shake as what could be happening in yoybportafilter is uneven extraction due to the largest particle from the last portion of grinding, all being present at the same part of the portafilter!


AKA Toffee chips

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FWIW getting level grounds before tamping isn’t difficult with a WDT tool.

 

Some shots from my puck preparation. Grind into cocktail shaker cup, shake a bit, transfer to portafilter with a funnel on, WDT, tap, tamp.

 

Thanks @PPapa, they look perfect - It's the WDT tool prepared stage first photo that is noticeably different. I'll try and get some photos up.

 

Due to the difference in particle size caused with this grinder single dosing you really need to give the grinds a good shake as what could be happening in yoybportafilter is uneven extraction due to the largest particle from the last portion of grinding, all being present at the same part of the portafilter!

 

Thanks @coffeechap this maybe a secret clue some more shaking.

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Due to the difference in particle size caused with this grinder single dosing you really need to give the grinds a good shake as what could be happening in yoybportafilter is uneven extraction due to the largest particle from the last portion of grinding, all being present at the same part of the portafilter!

 

I suppose not directly related, but I was sent details of a prototype device, which among other things it did (it was not a grinder, b ut was for placing beside a grinder) was vibrate to distribute the coffee, we're not talking about dental vibrator here. The portafilter was held in a device and the coffee actually rotated and levelled as it vibrated. Apparently this gave far better pours and pucks? It was about a year ago, apparently they we're considering production and wanted to send me one. It was quire large and the made bit I was interested in was the vibration bit...fortunately it was also modular, PSU and the 2-3 different units. My feedback was concentrate on the vibrating bit as it had potential and wasn't just a modified dental vibrator. I can't say a lot more about it.

 

The reason I mention it was I would have thought vibrating a coffee bed would cause the particles to organise themselves in order of size/density. So interesting they felt it gave better shots? As always the proof is in the pudding....

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Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I usually just knock the porterfilter on the worktop a couple of times and everything levels out. Then tamp it. Will that not solve the problem of uneven loading into the basket?

 

Even easier with a bottomless portafilter.


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I suppose not directly related, but I was sent details of a prototype device, which among other things it did (it was not a grinder, b ut was for placing beside a grinder) was vibrate to distribute the coffee, we're not talking about dental vibrator here. The portafilter was held in a device and the coffee actually rotated and levelled as it vibrated. Apparently this gave far better pours and pucks? It was about a year ago, apparently they we're considering production and wanted to send me one. It was quire large and the made bit I was interested in was the vibration bit...fortunately it was also modular, PSU and the 2-3 different units. My feedback was concentrate on the vibrating bit as it had potential and wasn't just a modified dental vibrator. I can't say a lot more about it.

 

The reason I mention it was I would have thought vibrating a coffee bed would cause the particles to organise themselves in order of size/density. So interesting they felt it gave better shots? As always the proof is in the pudding....

 

Not sur what your pony is Dave? Vibration would been an even distribution of particle sizes from bottom to top as the finer particles would end up at the bottom and if this is even it will give a more even extraction I suppose. The point I am making is that the niche ptoduces different particle sizes (as it grinds) meaningvthatvthe first 5 grams is finer than the last 5 grams!

 

If you simply pour this into a portafilter you risk an uneven spread of particle sizes inthe portafilter, if you shake the grinds, something most people do who own the niche, you mix up the different sizes and have a much much smaller chance of a separation or grouping together if the same sized particles in one area. Mixing is essential with the niche.


AKA Toffee chips

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Not sur what your pony is Dave? Vibration would been an even distribution of particle sizes from bottom to top as the finer particles would end up at the bottom and if this is even it will give a more even extraction I suppose. The point I am making is that the niche ptoduces different particle sizes (as it grinds) meaningvthatvthe first 5 grams is finer than the last 5 grams!

 

If you simply pour this into a portafilter you risk an uneven spread of particle sizes inthe portafilter, if you shake the grinds, something most people do who own the niche, you mix up the different sizes and have a much much smaller chance of a separation or grouping together if the same sized particles in one area. Mixing is essential with the niche.

 

No pony? I just thought it was interesting and your post reminded me of the device I saw last year.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Posted (edited)

Colonna had some kind of vibrating pad thingy once. Can't find the clip now though.

Edited by Mrboots2u

I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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