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Fez

Londinium 1 vs R

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Hi everyone

 

So as some of you may have seen I've been on the lookout for a londinium R. Unfortunately none have come up yet so I've been psyching myself up to buy a new one.

 

Now there have been a few L1 machines for sale on here for around £1400-1500 and I was wondering am I going to spending over £1000 more for a marginally better taste? Or this difference going to be night and day?

 

I've read multiple threads on the differences, hardware wise, between the old L1 and the new LR but I was hoping some owners who have owned both could chime in with their experience in the cup

 

Obviously the money is relative so to you the £1000 may not be such a big consideration. But if we consider the percentage difference is the LR worth the money over a used L1?

 

Will I even be able to difference coming from a standard gaggia classic?

 

I'll be using a Niche grinder and I'd say I generally prefer medium roasts.

 

Your opinions and comments are welcome. Also sorry if this has been covered before but I couldn't find it when searching.


LR, ZM

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There is a lot of difference between the machines, however you will still get great results out of an L1, if it were me and I have owned every single iteration of a Londinium machines, I would just hold out for another LR at around 1800-2k and fit the transducer at a later stage that way you will have the latest spec ant much less money


AKA Toffee chips

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Will I even be able to difference coming from a standard gaggia classic?

 

In short, yes.

 

I'll be using a Niche grinder and I'd say I generally prefer medium roasts.

 

LR will take lighter notes to a new level. Whilst the Niche is a great grinder, it might not get the potential for this out of the LR.

 

@Fez Would you like to do some real world taste testing? My son has an L1. With some planning, could put his L1 alongside my LR and do some taste comparisons. You supply the beans - light and medium roasted:)


Londinium-R - EKS43 running SSP Silver Knight burrs

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Perfect idea above


AKA Toffee chips

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I went from a silvia to a l1.

The difference in temp stability alone is key.

If nothing else this means you are able to make best shots more repeatable.

I took my niche to a cafe and pulled 5 - 6 shots of a good light single origin there. It held up very well in the cup.

While an ek or a mythos etc may well give you perceptable differences in the cup there are trade offs in size and cost. Etc.

Of course there is no gaurentee you will percieve these cup improvements of a new grinder. A new machine will make espresso more consistent.


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

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In short, yes.

 

 

 

LR will take lighter notes to a new level. Whilst the Niche is a great grinder, it might not get the potential for this out of the LR.

 

@Fez Would you like to do some real world taste testing? My son has an L1. With some planning, could put his L1 alongside my LR and do some taste comparisons. You supply the beans - light and medium roasted:)

 

Wow what a great offer! Thank you, I would love to take you up on this.

 

Unfortunately once purchasing the machine I don't see myself having the budget for a different grinder anywhere in the near future. Also the single dosing and small footprint of the niche really appeal to me. That was one of my concerns, considering I'll be using the niche would the LR be worth it


LR, ZM

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Wow what a great offer! Thank you, I would love to take you up on this.

 

Unfortunately once purchasing the machine I don't see myself having the budget for a different grinder anywhere in the near future. Also the single dosing and small footprint of the niche really appeal to me. That was one of my concerns, considering I'll be using the niche would the LR be worth it

@MildredM tried a Niche with her LR recently so should be able help.


Laissez les bons temps rouler

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@Fez - way to go is get your Niche and then run some shots through an L1 and LR.


Londinium-R - EKS43 running SSP Silver Knight burrs

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@Fez - way to go is get your Niche and then run some shots through an L1 and LR.

 

That's a good idea. Hoping to have my niche by next week. Maybe I could come pay you a visit at some point after that if you're not too far away from me?


LR, ZM

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That's a good idea. Hoping to have my niche by next week. Maybe I could come pay you a visit at some point after that if you're not too far away from me?

 

If you can take your Niche to TSKs then I’d go for it. Nothing beats hands-on testing ;)


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@Fez - L1 is in Manchester, LR is in Preston. Simplest way of doing this is to meet up at my son's, test your Niche with his L1 then nip over to Preston and try it on my LR.


Londinium-R - EKS43 running SSP Silver Knight burrs

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It might be worth trying a different grinder with your Classic to see if it could get better shots than L1/LR with Niche.

 

Just my opinion as I think you’ll need a better grinder to get the most out of a Londinium. I am saying this as a LR owner who had Niche for a brief period of time, but fired up E37S one day and realised what I was missing out!

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It might be worth trying a different grinder with your Classic to see if it could get better shots than L1/LR with Niche.

 

Just my opinion as I think you’ll need a better grinder to get the most out of a Londinium. I am saying this as a LR owner who had Niche for a brief period of time, but fired up E37S one day and realised what I was missing out!

 

I'd agree that the grinder is a huge part of the decision.

 

I guess its a balance on finances. L1 + £1000 grinder vs LR + Niche. I know that I saw a huge improvement when I moved from Cherub to L1 (both with Quamar M80) and then saw a step change when I moved to the Mythos. Upgrading both will make a massive difference but the grinder more so.

 

Maybe its possible to try the L1 and LR with Niche and a high end grinder as part of the visits to see where the money is best spent. Its not often that this chance is available (great offer from TSK btw).

If the budget is £2.5K then my money would be spent on L1 and £1K used grinder. If its £3.5K+ then LR and £1K+ grinder


a grinder a lever and some beans

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@Fez - L1 is in Manchester, LR is in Preston. Simplest way of doing this is to meet up at my son's, test your Niche with his L1 then nip over to Preston and try it on my LR.

 

This would work fine for me. I guess I'll pm you once the niche arrives and we can take it from there


LR, ZM

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Im happy to consider changing grinder in a few years. But the niche hasn't even been delivered yet! Haha.

 

I guess I'll see how I feel about the niche after pulling some shots through the L1 and LR first.

Edited by Fez

LR, ZM

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The Niche needs run in. The L1 will get the best out of whatever grinder you use. You might have to work a bit though. Ppapa went from 63mm conical to 83mm flat......all that tells us is the flavour profile on the Cedar was more suited to the light beans he was using

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Ppapa went from 63mm conical to 83mm flat......all that tells us is the flavour profile on the Cedar was more suited to the light beans he was using

That is correct, although I then went to 98mm new coffee burrs on ek43s. For me it didn’t make sense to get sub-standard results with an espresso machine capable of a lot more.

 

It’s an expense I wasn’t planning on at the time, hence my suggestion to try and see whether a grinder is another option. Niche sells well in this forum anyway.

 

Then again, lots of happy Niche users here and it’s down to preference, isn’t it.

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That is correct, although I then went to 98mm new coffee burrs on ek43s. For me it didn’t make sense to get sub-standard results with an espresso machine capable of a lot more.

 

It’s an expense I wasn’t planning on at the time, hence my suggestion to try and see whether a grinder is another option. Niche sells well in this forum anyway.

 

Then again, lots of happy Niche users here and it’s down to preference, isn’t it.

 

Would 83mm burrs produce sub standard results..

Thats 90 percent of coffee shops out the window


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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Would 83mm burrs produce sub standard results..

Thats 90 percent of coffee shops out the window

 

No, I was quite happy with the taste produced by E37S, just didn’t find the single dosing workflow that would work for me.

 

I haven’t had E37S by the side of LR for longer than a week, so I couldn’t comment on the long term results.

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I’m interested in your findings here... I’m seriously considering a niche to sit alongside the EK43 for the darker side of life moments...


L1, EK43, K30, Torr Titan, VST.

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Could happily live with an L1 and as of this post there is some well looked after secondhand offerings available , so it would be hard not to consider these , is the LR better . ? Yes but surely you knew that answer beforehand , if you are saving a grand that’s a lot of money towards something else , will the niche be up to the job of bringing out the best in either of these machines I can’t answer , however I would hazard a guess you would want large flat burrs soon after whatever machine you choose .

 

feel free to flame me


¿ ǝsǝɥʇ pɐǝɹ ǝuoʎuɐ sǝop

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Following this thread as I’m in a similar position - had my Gaggia Classic for 5yrs or so and overdue an upgrade. I’ve had my eye on a dual boiler synchronika for a while now though after seeing @arellim’s L1 last year I’m seriously swaying towards a lever now haha!


ECM Synchronika | Eureka Olympus | Push

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I’m interested in your findings here... I’m seriously considering a niche to sit alongside the EK43 for the darker side of life moments...

 

Not much help from my side since I had some darker roast beans which made me yuck! Niche didn’t help that time.

 

Still have them... a comparison to a typical Square Mile roast, which aren’t the lightest in the world of light roasts.

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