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High Grind Speed Destroys Taste?

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Hi

 

I need your advice/prof perspective, please!

 

Just read this post: https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?32314&p=430908#post430908

 

and I am wondering if this is true that the grind speed/RPM destroy or affects taste?

 

Trying to replicate the taste of a cafe and they use a Mythos One Grinder with 900rpm and some folks mentioned that the Ceado E37S is much better with 1400/1500 RPM is much better but I worry that the taste differs much?

 

The grinder would be used for at home for 1-3 coffees/shots per day to replace a compak k3

 

Thanks in advance!

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There is a bit more to it than that! The Ceado E92 conical spins at very low speed. The Mythos is unique because the burrs are flat 75mm but mounted at an angle of 45 degrees. This means that centrifugal force is not required in order to make the coffee exit the chamber. Gravity sees to it......best bet is to try coffees produced on different machines and see for yourself. the mythos in my humble, is very hard to beat!

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The only way you'll know for sure is to use your tastebuds to see if you tell any difference as taste is a very personal thing.

 

This may involve a trip to somewhere like Bella Barista (if buying new) where they have a few grinders out for you to compare against, otherwise a lot more reading around the subject (noting link takes you to 2 posts from a someone comparing conical to flats and 2nd of only 2 posts introduces a project grinder).

 

Beans probably have more impact on taste so if trying any grinders out make sure something bean wise that you know otherwise you could chase yourself round in circles.

 

For the money, 2nd hand, both grinders mentioned above E37s and Mythos (any type) are very respectable grinders so comes down to taste / size and practicalities more so than spin speed at the price point you are looking at.

 

Hope of some help and for the record agree with the above ref Mythos ( I have one) but also have a conical Compak k10Pro which is much slower speed wise but only subtle differences, then very much dependant on bean as to which used. I also have an R120 (and a wonderful wife) that spins approx. 1400rpm (not the wife) and this does not detrimentally affect the taste, this grinder being very neutral on impact of bean taste.

 

I guess, bottom line, try some, see what you like and will it work in your environment noise / size wise and is it at a price you are comfortable with spending.

 

John


Roasters: BB Dalian Amazon 1kg -Power contolled GeneCafe 101- 113Kg of greens - Tonino

Espresso: Londinium L2 - Gaggia G105 - Silvia v3 Mr.Shades PID'-d - Faema E92a2 (Project) - MyPressi Twist - VST baskets / Motta Europa (350/500/750ml) - Torr Ti 58.55 & Goldfinger flat 58.4 TiBlack, Pullman 51.4 - Acaia x2

Grinders: Flats: Compak R120 - NS Mythos plus Conics: Compak K10PB - Lido 3

Brewed: Behmor Brazen - Moccamaster KBGT471 - Aeropress - V60 - Cona model D - Clever - Mizudashi - 8-10 + 6 cup Chemex

Water: BWT Bestmax V Refrac: VST III

and a Puq Press not in a pear tree..

 

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Hi

 

I need your advice/prof perspective, please!

 

Just read this post: https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?32314&p=430908#post430908

 

and I am wondering if this is true that the grind speed/RPM destroy or affects taste?

 

Trying to replicate the taste of a cafe and they use a Mythos One Grinder with 900rpm and some folks mentioned that the Ceado E37S is much better with 1400/1500 RPM is much better but I worry that the taste differs much?

 

The grinder would be used for at home for 1-3 coffees/shots per day to replace a compak k3

 

Thanks in advance!

 

So a post from someone who has made 2 posts in total and never posted since, plugging a grinder he intends to sell, using a url with a gap in it so that forum rules get bypassed. You trust this guys opinion??

 

It doesn't destroy taste, what very high speeds can do it cause more pulverisation, even so I don't believe that destroys taste, just perhaps increases the level of ultra-fines (whether there is any noticeable amount of over extraction is debatable perhaps).. You need to be wary of bollocks from people with something to gain who abuse the forum.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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If size and peripheral speed of the burs is important I wonder where people should stop eg

 

https://www.coffeeomega.co.uk/product/dip-dk-200-industrial-grinder/

 

John

-


In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Profitec T64. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A, Ceado 37J. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

:pToo many filter baskets - maybe. For sale when I get round to it. Robur Elect, Ceado 37J, Ascaso i_1,Piccino

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As Dave says there may be some debate about grind speed and fines. This you usually anecdotally see reported as shot x took x seconds more at x speed.

Whether this is tastable in the cup again, would require blind taste and or refract.


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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Just keep in mind, the reference grinder EK43 spins with 1400 RPM.

This has the most uniform output of all grinders.

The faster it spins with EK burrs, the more uniform it will grind in that case. (there will be a limit at some point of course)

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@Terranova do you think with the ek that it is the characteristics of the burr and not the high speed that make the difference as interestingly the new kafatek flat max is getting great results yet spins at slower speed with the SSP variant of the 98mm burrs?


AKA Toffee chips

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@Terranova do you think with the ek that it is the characteristics of the burr and not the high speed that make the difference as interestingly the new kafatek flat max is getting great results yet spins at slower speed with the SSP variant of the 98mm burrs?

 

Yes I think it is the geometry in combination with the speed (lets say some dozen RPM more or less).

I know the impact of RPM and I am sure you too.

I was talking to Ben Kaminsky some month ago in Copenhagen and he told me, there are bars running the EK´s even a bit faster, or feeding the beans a bit slower with a turkish burr carrier or even the poppy / grains burr carrier because it produces a more uniform output.

I haven´t seen any ojective data, other than you suddenly need a more coarser setting for the same fow rate because The EK grinds a bit finer when the beans are fed slower.

About the MAX, I also have no idea and haven´t seen any objective data.

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I would also be guessing that the heat generated from fast speeds would do some damage? I tried grinding some older beans at the Turkish setting on my EK (out of interest) and the grinds cup was quite warm.. Normal espresso settings don't cause any heat build-up (or is insignificant).

 

So, does it make a big difference when feeding beans in slowly (like an M3) compared to dumping them in in one go for eg when using the volumetric doser?


Input: 'Terranovered’ Versalab M3 + Mahlkonig EK43 Turkish burrs + Niche

Output: KVdW Speedster + V60 + AeroPress + Syphon + Bialetti Induction Moka Pot + Bialetti Mucka Express + jar of instant for visitors..

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