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Ceado e37s calibration/alignment

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Everyone loves a fiat panda, like everyone loves the niche apparently


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Did you see the Grand Tour, last two episodes? There was a Fiat Panda prominently featured in that! OK, it was the 4 wheel drive version but it managed to do everything the other 2 off roaders did. But, you have to compare apples with apples and at the end of the day, are you surprised if you press a doorbell and it goes ding dong?

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If only the niche was a door bell


AKA Toffee chips

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It was interesting that folk condemned me for comparing a more expensive grinder to the niche and we are doing it again, be careful it’s just not fair


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It was interesting that folk condemned me for comparing a more expensive grinder to the niche and we are doing it again, be careful it’s just not fair

 

Ouch.....we are trying to put the OP off the idea, telling hi you cannot realistically compare the two......so it is perfectly fair...which brings me back to whether or not you have tried the taste and particle size on a Niche with worn in burrs...and if you answer, answer the question I asked, not something else.....LOL

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I have answered it, no I haven’t and am happy to wager it won’t make a jot of difference to particle size distribution, ask @dsc as he has a single dosing conic


AKA Toffee chips

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The weight of beans forces the bean into the burrs uniformly, or perhaps more uniformly than if you have no weight. Some grinders get around this by using an auger. I would select a bean for use in both grinders. Single dose the Niche. Put 250 gms into the E37 and you will only notice a difference in grind when there are maybe 30 to 50 gms left...you will see the grind coarsen up
Yes I get the logic of a force pushing down and centrifugal force from rotating burrs as compared to just the centrifugal force in single dosing. But i still down get the science behind:

 

1. Why when grind size is determined by the gap at the outer edge of the flat burrs, how different size can be spat out? Just curious really but am sure the phenomenon happens with the e37 and k30.

 

2. If weight effects grind size then the grind size is going to be effected throughout the hopper emptying gradually or is it only in the last 50 to 60grams as you say.

 

3. Those who are single dosing with Mazzers they should also be suffering from this same inconsistency but nodded and single dosers are one of the most common grinder option on the forum.


Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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You are not the only one to have noticed the difference, not everyone is niche hyped
The problem is I am still Niche hyped and am considering the possibility there is a particular issue with my unit.

 

I am not trying to compare with a Mythos or ek43 (even though I haven't tried either in a home setting). Just to get a shot that matches many of the testimonials on the forum. I will attempt to get the burrs run in and see if the problem persists as I did try old burrs from a Kony and it did make a difference.

 

Ultimately I do think I am getting a significant particle size distribution causing fines/chalkiness and bitterness. What I don't know is whether the issue is with my Niche or all Niches. I am sure it's the latter as of all users even those critical have not pointed out what I am! Is there a way to test or check my particle size distribution?


Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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I have answered it, no I haven’t and am happy to wager it won’t make a jot of difference to particle size distribution, ask @dsc as he has a single dosing conic
Which conic is that?

Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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Which conic is that?
Custom built 71mm.

 

T.


Espresso: Londinium L1, ZR-71 grinder

Photography: Flickr

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Yes I get the logic of a force pushing down and centrifugal force from rotating burrs as compared to just the centrifugal force in single dosing. But i still down get the science behind:

 

1. Why when grind size is determined by the gap at the outer edge of the flat burrs, how different size can be spat out? Just curious really but am sure the phenomenon happens with the e37 and k30.

 

2. If weight effects grind size then the grind size is going to be effected throughout the hopper emptying gradually or is it only in the last 50 to 60grams as you say.

 

3. Those who are single dosing with Mazzers they should also be suffering from this same inconsistency but nodded and single dosers are one of the most common grinder option on the forum.

 

You are right -the weight of the beans has little or no effect on the grind. However, some beans will sit on top of the burrs indefinately without some weight to push them through


Londinium 1, Pharos, Ceado e37s, Gene Cafe, Aerobie

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You are right -the weight of the beans has little or no effect on the grind. However, some beans will sit on top of the burrs indefinately without some weight to push them through

 

If that is true, then why on all grinders I have had where I load up the hopper, does the grind seriously coarsen once the weight of beans has diminished?

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You are right -the weight of the beans has little or no effect on the grind. However, some beans will sit on top of the burrs indefinately without some weight to push them through

 

How many tests and on how many grinders have done your research on to be so sure?


AKA Toffee chips

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Ultimately I do think I am getting a significant particle size distribution causing fines/chalkiness and bitterness. What I don't know is whether the issue is with my Niche or all Niches. I am sure it's the latter as of all users even those critical have not pointed out what I am! Is there a way to test or check my particle size distribution?

 

If you think you have too many fines/small particles, go a little coarser.

 

It's unlikely the particle distribution is abnormal for that grinder (even if it might be different from other grinders). It can only do what it does. First step is to ensure you have it adjusted appropriately.

 

Checking distribution gets a bit involved & harder the finer you go with espresso. Even if you do check it you'll need a datum, which you don't have.


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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Yes I get the logic of a force pushing down and centrifugal force from rotating burrs as compared to just the centrifugal force in single dosing. But i still down get the science behind:

 

1. Why when grind size is determined by the gap at the outer edge of the flat burrs, how different size can be spat out? Just curious really but am sure the phenomenon happens with the e37 and k30.

 

2. If weight effects grind size then the grind size is going to be effected throughout the hopper emptying gradually or is it only in the last 50 to 60grams as you say.

 

3. Those who are single dosing with Mazzers they should also be suffering from this same inconsistency but nodded and single dosers are one of the most common grinder option on the forum.

 

1. My own theory is that it's different particle shapes, shard like fragments will pass more easily for example, same goes for large but thin particles, elements broken off whilst the bean jump about rather than being pushed down the grind path in a continuous fashion (like when grinding with a full hopper).

 

2. It definitely affects a single dose, the grind coarsens significantly, the effects are less with twice the amount, less with x 3 and so on, at some point it becomes minimal.

 

3. Every grinder suffers from this, it's a burr feature not a grinder type / maker feature. Flats suffer from this as well but I think the effects are less dramatic as they don't rely on gravity for feeding.

 

The main question is how this affects the brewing process, extraction etc.

 

T.


Espresso: Londinium L1, ZR-71 grinder

Photography: Flickr

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How many tests and on how many grinders have done your research on to be so sure?

 

So are you saying that all the grinders I have had with hoppers on them that I simply put a couple of hundred gms of beans in, and all when you get down to the beans in the throat have not significantly coarsened then?

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If you think you have too many fines/small particles, go a little coarser.

 

It's unlikely the particle distribution is abnormal for that grinder (even if it might be different from other grinders). It can only do what it does. First step is to ensure you have it adjusted appropriately.

 

Checking distribution gets a bit involved & harder the finer you go with espresso. Even if you do check it you'll need a datum, which you don't have.

Yes I have tried coarser and finer. I also realise it is unlikely the unit is faulty but I am considering it as no one in the hundreds of comments in the Niche thread has raised a similar issue to mine. Even though I will wait to run my burrs in, others have not said in the initial use of the grinder they had similar probs.

 

What's a datum?


Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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Yes I have tried coarser and finer. I also realise it is unlikely the unit is faulty but I am considering it as no one in the hundreds of comments in the Niche thread has raised a similar issue to mine. Even though I will wait to run my burrs in, others have not said in the initial use of the grinder they had similar probs.

 

What's a datum?

 

So, no matter how coarse you go, the drink is chalky/silty/powdery?

 

Datum - a benchmark to measure against.


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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So are you saying that all the grinders I have had with hoppers on them that I simply put a couple of hundred gms of beans in, and all when you get down to the beans in the throat have not significantly coarsened then?

 

My comment was aimed at the person that made the sweeping statement not you at all. In all the times and years that I have looked at this and with almost every grinder, the grind courses the lower the weight of bean you have ( once you get below 250 grams in the hopper


AKA Toffee chips

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Yes I get the logic of a force pushing down and centrifugal force from rotating burrs as compared to just the centrifugal force in single dosing. But i still down get the science behind:

 

1. Why when grind size is determined by the gap at the outer edge of the flat burrs, how different size can be spat out? Just curious really but am sure the phenomenon happens with the e37 and k30.

 

2. If weight effects grind size then the grind size is going to be effected throughout the hopper emptying gradually or is it only in the last 50 to 60grams as you say.

 

3. Those who are single dosing with Mazzers they should also be suffering from this same inconsistency but nodded and single dosers are one of the most common grinder option on the forum.

I'm gonna question no.3 since I'm pretty sure most of those that single dose on demand grinders don't try the following: compare extractions with or without beans in the hopper at the same grind setting. And in fact most of them compensate by grinding finer when "single dosing".

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My comment was aimed at the person that made the sweeping statement not you at all. In all the times and years that I have looked at this and with almost every grinder, the grind courses the lower the weight of bean you have ( once you get below 250 grams in the hopper

 

My mistake!

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There is another effect on flats that others have mentioned on here concerning hopper on and single dosing with it off. When the hopper is on the exit from the grind chamber is full and grinds are being forced out which slows down the rate that the grinds go through the burs and results in a finer grind than when the hopper is off when the setting is the same. This may well relate to different particle distributions looking like a different setting are needed for the same shot sizes. Some one would need a lot of sieves to find out. Also when single dosing some may not get all of the grinds out of the exit from the grinds chamber - defeats the objective really.

 

People mention gravity. There is circa 70g forcing beans through the burs on ones of this size at their speed. What that does when the beans run right down probably goes some way to explaining changes.. Conics are entirely different.

 

Adding a weight and a tube also has it's problems. Not that easy for various reason to be able to get the weight to go right down onto the burrs so some beans do get bounced around. The amount varies - Ceado may be amongst the worse if all use a large domed nut. Mazzer can be part fixed by using a smaller diameter tube. ;) Was going to be my next step until I bought a Niche. Might do it anyway.

 

The neck diameter of many grinders can be the same. My Ceado for instance was quickly fitted with a Mazzer Mini's small hopper.

 

Ceado's clump crusher come antistatic method looked pretty effective to me on my 64mm bur model. Just a springy metal flap that directs grinds down the chute held in place with a singe screw that is a touch difficult to get at. ;) Removing it for single dosing proved interesting. Earlier models I believe had the same sort of arrangement with "adjustable spring". I'd guess people could spend hours playing with that and wonder if it is reliable. The simple thin plate is and from my use works rather well. They may have changed again recently.

 

Comparing with Niche. Initially I didn't notice much difference from what I had via my Mini which is well run in. Dropping the dose made a surprising difference - just 1/2g. Why :exit:

 

John

-


In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Profitec T64. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A, Ceado 37J. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

:pToo many filter baskets - maybe. For sale when I get round to it. Robur Elect, Ceado 37J, Ascaso i_1,Piccino

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QUOTE=coffeechap;659624]How many tests and on how many grinders have done your research on to be so sure?

 

 

WARNING:- THIS VIDEO IS REAL TIME AND VERY BORING!!!!

[video=youtube_share;YMz86eB5f10]

 

I have almost run out of beans many times and have never noticed a variation in the grind, OK this is only on the E37 but then that is the subject of this thread.

Edited by NickR

Londinium 1, Pharos, Ceado e37s, Gene Cafe, Aerobie

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That’s incredible and no adjustment to the grind setting, I am genuinely amazed!


AKA Toffee chips

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Don't really see what the video proves. I can state, and anyone that wants to argue with me can, that a grinder that has a hopper on that contains a weight of beans, as it empties there is less weight to push the beans down into the burrs. As the levels drop and we are probably talking the last 5 shots in the grinder here, the grind coarsens and the flow quickens up. that might be slightly mitigated by a lever have a softer pressure to pull the shot and it falling away, but it still happens

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