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Help with anti vac valve removal

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I need help with a heat exchange machine. It is a Casadio Dafne S1. The boiler was giving off a lot a of steam from the top of the boiler. Eventually so much that the boiler could not reach the desired temperature. After a bit of research I guessed it might be the anti-vac valve.

 

I have taken a pic where the steam was coming from. It is covered with a rubber cap which has a tear in it from where the steam escapes. A pic of the inside shows that there is a pipe but not connected to anything.

 

1. Is this the anti-vac valve or something else?

 

2. I have removed the screw from the clip holding the rubber cap but still can't remove it. Need help with how to do this.

 

3. Should the pipe be connected to anything or is that the way it is meant to be?

 

Thanks! b30277c88a1769f621f7292c45042efc.jpgd93e08188bd55c59a982c6f4e5d02cf1.jpg6f1e3dfd77a39ad7ffa93eccf1bc4770.jpg


Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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Actually after a bit more googling, it may be the boiler safety valve... But have no idea and whether generic ones would fit... Hence why would really appreciate some insight from the seasoned Forumites.


Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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Yeah just get a Generic one, as long as the thread fits. You can get em rated to 1.7, or better still 2.3 bar (it should be fine). You also won't need to reinstall the condom after refitting and arguably if the condom had not been on it, the diagnosis of leaking would have been perhaps a year or more ago when it was a baby leak.

 

It will cost about £13 delivered on the bay and be careful you don't get an expansion valve by mistake, it seems some sellers describe them incorrectly and may know know what they are selling. An expansion valve certainly wouldn't be suitable for that job.


Crem One 2B DBPP (pre production version), ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DBPP (paddle flow control), Lelit Mara X Prototype, BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK, Eureka Atom Speciality 75, Eureka "Blow UP System", VDT Vibration thing: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Thanks. So it is the safety valve and not the anti vac?

 

I couldn't get the clip off for the life of me so if the rubber cap is not needed I'll just cut it off I guess.

 

Still don't get why there is a pipe opening next to the valve though.


Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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Yes, it's the safety valve which is leaking. Just cut the rubber cover off at the base.

The drain tube & rubber cover is overkill, as the safety valve should never leak or pop under normal useage.

The Casadio safety valve has a smaller than usual thread (1/4") & is rated at 1.9bar.

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Thanks. So it is the safety valve and not the anti vac?

 

I couldn't get the clip off for the life of me so if the rubber cap is not needed I'll just cut it off I guess.

 

Still don't get why there is a pipe opening next to the valve though.

I usually use some long nose mole grips on those spring clips so than once they're locked off they won't slip.

Laissez les bons temps rouler

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Thank you. Great. What do I need to do with the previously appended tube?

 

Also am I right in presuming that hiding under the other rubber cap is the anti vac valve and the cap is not needed either. Only asking as I might as well replace as well.

 

Any other bits you recommend for a service?

Yes, it's the safety valve which is leaking. Just cut the rubber cover off at the base.

The drain tube & rubber cover is overkill, as the safety valve should never leak or pop under normal useage.

The Casadio safety valve has a smaller than usual thread (1/4") & is rated at 1.9bar.


Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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I usually use some long nose mole grips on those spring clips so than once they're locked off they won't slip.
Cool. That tool is not in my armory. But now that I know the rubber cap and clip are not needed I'll be less delicate in my attempt.

Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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The one on the vacuum breaker is handy as it stops it spitting all over the top of the machine, not essential, but no harm leaving it, unless it's all gungy under there. Of course there is always a downside and that is that you will be unlikely to notice a vacuum breaker leak early on.

 

One caveat, if those waste water tubes go to the drip tray, great, if they go back to the internal tank (urgh) as they often did in the olden days....then get those condoms off and tubes removed ASAP.


Crem One 2B DBPP (pre production version), ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DBPP (paddle flow control), Lelit Mara X Prototype, BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK, Eureka Atom Speciality 75, Eureka "Blow UP System", VDT Vibration thing: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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The anti-vac valve under the rubber hood should be similar to the shiny s/steel one on the left hand boiler.

(Casadio do seem to have a rubber fetish.....)

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Thanks for the advice. That's really helpful. So I will remove the cap for safety valve and get a new generic one. Although I will have to rearrange the piping so there are no open ends.

 

I might keep the cap on the anti vac valve but still want to see its state underneath. Is the long nose grip mentioned above the best tool to get the clips off.

 

And while I'm ordering the two valves potentially is there any other service parts I should order also?


Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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Thanks for the advice. That's really helpful. So I will remove the cap for safety valve and get a new generic one. Although I will have to rearrange the piping so there are no open ends.

 

I might keep the cap on the anti vac valve but still want to see its state underneath. Is the long nose grip mentioned above the best tool to get the clips off.

 

And while I'm ordering the two valves potentially is there any other service parts I should order also?

I've used standard pliers & water pump pliers before but they can slip if you're not careful.

Standard mole grips may work but I only had the needle nosed ones in my tool box so that's what I used most of the time (access can be tight sometimes in washing machines).


Laissez les bons temps rouler

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Thanks


Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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So I got the two rubber caps off. The anti vac valve looks black. I think I'd like to change both valves.

 

When I try to unfasten either they are jammed solid. The boiler moves and I don't want to break anything. Even the whole machine moved.

 

Any ideas how to budge these? ae73631a948b2a0794c6ff69c31117be.jpg


Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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Now I can see both components properly, the one in the middle is the safety valve, the one on the right doesn't look like any vacuum breaker I have ever seen, the bottom half yes, the top bit looks like someone put some stuff on it to stop it leaking? Whatever it doesn't look right at all. Get a more conventional safety valve and vacuum breaker for a replacement. You are correct when you state both should be replaced.

 

If you try and remove those in the way that you have where the boiler and machine are moving, you will break something! That boiler needs a great deal of support with something like a band wrench so that it cannot twist at all. Use a metal one that grips (it's effectively a metal oil filter wrench) because the inner steel band has teeth that dig in. Use an impact driver for removal, if you don't have one, then an open ended spanner and tap it repeatedly with a hammer on the end to undo it, short sharp taps. If this doesn't work and it probably won't the bastards have (as usual) used a liberal application of very strong thread locker (there are different food safe strengths and you may have to heat with a blowtorch to degrade the thread locker., Obviously shield or remove the level probe if you do this. If the boiler is nickel plated copper, there is always a risk that the boiler threaded fitting itself will fracture at the braze point. You might well find it's better to remove the boiler to get those off.

 

One day the manufacturers might stop using inappropriate thread-lockers and change to PTFE tape, or low strength lockers/fillers on components which require removal/replacement at regular intervals. When fitting new components, use PTFE tape (about 7 turns), not thread-locker


Crem One 2B DBPP (pre production version), ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DBPP (paddle flow control), Lelit Mara X Prototype, BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK, Eureka Atom Speciality 75, Eureka "Blow UP System", VDT Vibration thing: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Dave , it looks like someone has removed the original vac breaker pin and replaced it with a stud / bolt and a bridge shaped washer to permanently seal the valve ??:confused:

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Dave , it looks like someone has removed the original vac breaker pin and replaced it with a stud / bolt and a bridge shaped washer to permanently seal the valve ??:confused:

 

Yeah, I didn't want to say that for fear of upsetting the OP, but that's exactly what it looks like. Makes you wonder what else has been bodged.


Crem One 2B DBPP (pre production version), ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DBPP (paddle flow control), Lelit Mara X Prototype, BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK, Eureka Atom Speciality 75, Eureka "Blow UP System", VDT Vibration thing: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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No offense possible as it was bought as project/upgrade. So only trying to undo any bodges.

 

I am not sure if the anti vac is permenantly sealed as the top bit still moves up and down.

 

Yeah, I didn't want to say that for fear of upsetting the OP, but that's exactly what it looks like. Makes you wonder what else has been bodged.

Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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No offense possible as it was bought as project/upgrade. So only trying to undo any bodges.

 

I am not sure if the anti vac is permenantly sealed as the top bit still moves up and down.

 

I've not seen one like that before....but I would certainly put a more conventional one on.


Crem One 2B DBPP (pre production version), ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DBPP (paddle flow control), Lelit Mara X Prototype, BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK, Eureka Atom Speciality 75, Eureka "Blow UP System", VDT Vibration thing: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Really grateful for the detailed advice Dave. Need to source some of these tools especially the one to grip the boiler.

Now I can see both components properly, the one in the middle is the safety valve, the one on the right doesn't look like any vacuum breaker I have ever seen, the bottom half yes, the top bit looks like someone put some stuff on it to stop it leaking? Whatever it doesn't look right at all. Get a more conventional safety valve and vacuum breaker for a replacement. You are correct when you state both should be replaced.

 

If you try and remove those in the way that you have where the boiler and machine are moving, you will break something! That boiler needs a great deal of support with something like a band wrench so that it cannot twist at all. Use a metal one that grips (it's effectively a metal oil filter wrench) because the inner steel band has teeth that dig in. Use an impact driver for removal, if you don't have one, then an open ended spanner and tap it repeatedly with a hammer on the end to undo it, short sharp taps. If this doesn't work and it probably won't the bastards have (as usual) used a liberal application of very strong thread locker (there are different food safe strengths and you may have to heat with a blowtorch to degrade the thread locker., Obviously shield or remove the level probe if you do this. If the boiler is nickel plated copper, there is always a risk that the boiler threaded fitting itself will fracture at the braze point. You might well find it's better to remove the boiler to get those off.

 

One day the manufacturers might stop using inappropriate thread-lockers and change to PTFE tape, or low strength lockers/fillers on components which require removal/replacement at regular intervals. When fitting new components, use PTFE tape (about 7 turns), not thread-locker


Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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That def. is the anti-vac valve (!) on the right: I come across them regularly. Always swap them for a more conventional one.

 

You could try: Squirt of WD40 around the valve base; leave overnight; then a sharp twist (not a steady pull) with a socket & ratchet

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I know this is a long gap to the original post. But life being what it is finally got round to removing the anti vac and safety valves with some help and replacing with new ones.

 

When I turned it on the pid temp reading was still fluctuating all over the place. The water didn't stop heating and the safety valve eventually blew with some force. Now the pid is showing 200 degrees and the water is not heating.

 

I know it could be wiring, pid or temp sensor. But if I was to guess temp sensor, which of the wires is it on the top?

 

There's red, grey and black. And does anyone know which sensor would be best?4e50ce8c1d3e01672b93e221db7c932e.jpg


Sage Duo Temp - La Cimbali 6/S A 64mm flat burr + numerous projects: Sunbeam, Ascaso, Gaggia

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