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Finding a happy medium (roast)

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Hello everybody,

 

It's been a while since I've posted, but glad to be back

 

I have a question related to a business I intend on starting, with regard to roasteries producing a medium roast coffee.

 

The business idea is a coffee van, (coffeebean I have your details for when I'm ready ?) and my issue is serving a roast that appeals to the general public. I intend to operate from a busy train station, hence my customers will predominantly be passing trade as opposed to people seeking out speciality coffee.

 

I'm a strong believer in lighter roasted coffees, my roaster of choice is square mile coffee and I used to drink the various single origins they sell and now use red brick since I acquired an espresso machine.

 

I would love to serve red brick, and I believe most people would accept it in a milk based coffee, but am worried that any unsuspecting customer ordering a black coffee of any sort might be put off.

 

If and when I offer a sip of my black coffee to friends and family that like coffee, but aren't proper aficionados, I get a yuck reaction. This seems like a bad response to get from a business perspective.

 

so to my point, haha, can people please point me in the direction of some roasters who roast "in the middle", medium, while still maintain roasting fresh, preferably with good sourcing ethics.

 

Thanks everybody

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But surely you won't just be serving black coffee from your van? Aficionado, or not, people tend to add milk & maybe sugar to taste.

 

E.g. my neighbours regularly drink specialty cappuccinos with sugar & tell me how great it tastes, I can't correlate what's in their cups to the espresso I drink in the same place, but we're all happy & enjoying our drinks.

 

How many of those folk with the "yuk" reactions drink straight, short ratio espresso normally?


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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Have you got any localish roasters who might be willing to do a speciality 'house' blend for you?


Laissez les bons temps rouler

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MWJB no I won't be serving just black coffee but I'm aware there are people out there who drink Nescafé gold or maxwell house black, and there's just as much chance I'll be serving these types as third wave hipsters, so I want something with more mass appeal and wanted some roaster recommendations along those lines

 

Ashcroc good idea, sounds like it could cost premium price though, will investigate

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MWJB no I won't be serving just black coffee but I'm aware there are people out there who drink Nescafé gold or maxwell house black, and there's just as much chance I'll be serving these types as third wave hipsters, so I want something with more mass appeal and wanted some roaster recommendations along those lines

 

Ashcroc good idea, sounds like it could cost premium price though, will investigate

 

I think you're swinging from one extreme to the next. I guess some people do like instant coffee black with no sugar, but that wouldn't necessarily exclude them from enjoying a quality filter coffee/Americano too. (I'm certainly not a hipster & have no experience of the American "wave" model).

 

Perhaps aim more at safer notes (choc, nuts, caramel, toffee), but quality, medium roast blends are still going to change seasonally. Even so, they shouldn't be yielding "yuk" responses from people who like coffee. My dad drinks Dolce Gusto, supermarket preground, mass market European espresso at 1.20Euros a shot, it doesn't stop him enjoying Wendelboe/Talor & Jorgen/April roasts too.

 

Good luck with the venture.


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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You've summed up my point entirely,swinging from one extreme to the other, hence my quest for roasters who roast medium. certainly not wendelboe esque roasts though,which are clearly lighter roasts, and have certainly yielded yuk responses from people who like coffee, regardless of which well respected coffee shop is making the drink.

 

Have you never met someone who doesn't like light roasts? People tell me all sorts of weird flavours they taste in light roast filters, like tomato for instance. I'm trying to mass appeal here!

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You've summed up my point entirely,swinging from one extreme to the other, hence my quest for roasters who roast medium. certainly not wendelboe esque roasts though,which are clearly lighter roasts, and have certainly yielded yuk responses from people who like coffee, regardless of which well respected coffee shop is making the drink.

 

Have you never met someone who doesn't like light roasts? People tell me all sorts of weird flavours they taste in light roast filters, like tomato for instance. I'm trying to mass appeal here!

That's more down to the region the coffee is grown in isn't it? Bobolink from Union is light roast but still has that classic brazillion choc/nut vibe.

Laissez les bons temps rouler

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That's more down to the region the coffee is grown in isn't it? Bobolink from Union is light roast but still has that classic brazillion choc/nut vibe.

 

Perhaps, I think light roasts in general tend to have a fruity acidity which darker roasts lack, regardless of the region the coffee is grown in, don't you?

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We were in a cafe the other day that was serving Red Brick via a Mythos and a decent 2 group machine. Plenty of non-hipsters in there glugging it down. Black/milky/flat white, everyone seemed happy with it. I had mint tea! I’ve seen a lot of places serving Red Brick and assume it must go down well as everyone seemed happy enough with their coffee!

 

I prefer fruity/light roasts :)


2019 L-R with hand turned Thuya burr handles and toggles  /  1998 La Pavoni with NickNak single hole steam wand tip  /  Monolith Titan Conical & MAX  / HG-1  /  Kalita wave  /  Stag kettle  /  OCD  /  Joey Skateboard Handle Pullman Big Step & matching stirrer  /  gold B Plus stirrer  /  Push Tamper  /  Puqpress  /  15g & 18g vst  /  IMS 35μM  /  LDT  /  Barista Gear Titanium 12oz pitchers  /  LW Bean Cellars & Caddy  /  Decent thermometer  /  Acme Evo 150ml cups  /  Espazzola  /  Hottop  /  Acme and Loveramics cups /  embroidered by me bar towels  /  coffee bar towel logo embroiderer to the hoi polloi  /  in the cellars: North Star, Foundry, The Barn, HasBean, Coffee Compass  /  6 gorgeous guineas  /  a dog  /  a very lovely and understanding husband 

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A 'medium roast" whatever the is , a a vague term.

Roast it so it isn't burnt or has acidity please .... you know in the middle ....

As said before aim for a bean that has notes that work well for your market and you like.

Alot will depend on what you are prepared to spend, I see you list ethical sourcing etc , but if you are only going to go to £10 a kg then that's goign to be a compromise.

If you want a different taste for black coffee, get some batch brew on that your happier with as black coffee..


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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A 'medium roast" whatever the is , a a vague term.

Roast it so it isn't burnt or has acidity please .... you know in the middle ....

As said before aim for a bean that has notes that work well for your market and you like.

Alot will depend on what you are prepared to spend, I see you list ethical sourcing etc , but if you are only going to go to £10 a kg then that's goign to be a compromise.

If you want a different taste for black coffee, get some batch brew on that your happier with as black coffee..

 

Its a vague term but has parameters regardless. Somehow, folks on another coffee forum have helpfully suggested some roasters who roast in the vague vastness of medium roast, rave and dark woods, rather than just pick my question apart in an unhelpful nit picking manner. Thanks anyway coffee forums!!

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Its a vague term but has parameters regardless. Somehow, folks on another coffee forum have helpfully suggested some roasters who roast in the vague vastness of medium roast, rave and dark woods, rather than just pick my question apart in an unhelpful nit picking manner. Thanks anyway coffee forums!!

Good luck with your venture.


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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Have you never met someone who doesn't like light roasts? People tell me all sorts of weird flavours they taste in light roast filters, like tomato for instance. I'm trying to mass appeal here!

 

I don't particularly like tomato in coffee either, I can tolerate it, but this usually only turns up in Kenyans which I would aim more at the adventurous, rather than middle ground.

 

I haven't yet met someone (a consumer) who doesn't like light/med roasts, only people with an interest in coffee (& perhaps with an existing bias) have roast preference (consumers talk in numbers of intensity). I have met people who don't like badly made coffee, which could be at pretty much any roast level.

 

Sorry, don't mean to be "picking your post apart", perhaps it's more that I wonder if you're asking the most relevant question, rather than trying to find fault as such.

Edited by MWJB

“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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If I went into a French restaurant which said it was serving a roast beef and yorkshire pud, I would be very upset to receive, a "yorkshire pud" which bore no relation to what I was used to. I regularly travel to Italy and enjoy a traditional Italian espresso. Why do "Artisan" roasters persist in trying to change a traditional Italian drink into something else? Maybe places serving light roasted espresso should call it something else - "English hipster coffee"


Londinium 1, Pharos, Ceado e37s, Gene Cafe, Aerobie

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so, to my point, haha, can people please point me in the direction of some roasters who roast "in the middle", medium, while still maintain roasting fresh, preferably with good sourcing ethics.

 

Thanks everybody

 

Check out the banners top and bottom. There are lots of excellent roasters advertising on the forum at present that offer a good range of beans.

 

There's another way round this, to please everyone. Foundry, for example, serve a 'comfort' bean alongside an 'adventure' bean in their cafe. One is 'chocolatey', the other fruity. Neither roast is overly light. They come across as a very ethical company, in all aspects from sourcing to recycling.


2019 L-R with hand turned Thuya burr handles and toggles  /  1998 La Pavoni with NickNak single hole steam wand tip  /  Monolith Titan Conical & MAX  / HG-1  /  Kalita wave  /  Stag kettle  /  OCD  /  Joey Skateboard Handle Pullman Big Step & matching stirrer  /  gold B Plus stirrer  /  Push Tamper  /  Puqpress  /  15g & 18g vst  /  IMS 35μM  /  LDT  /  Barista Gear Titanium 12oz pitchers  /  LW Bean Cellars & Caddy  /  Decent thermometer  /  Acme Evo 150ml cups  /  Espazzola  /  Hottop  /  Acme and Loveramics cups /  embroidered by me bar towels  /  coffee bar towel logo embroiderer to the hoi polloi  /  in the cellars: North Star, Foundry, The Barn, HasBean, Coffee Compass  /  6 gorgeous guineas  /  a dog  /  a very lovely and understanding husband 

https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/MildredsBarTowels

 

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If I went into a French restaurant which said it was serving a roast beef and yorkshire pud, I would be very upset to receive, a "yorkshire pud" which bore no relation to what I was used to. I regularly travel to Italy and enjoy a traditional Italian espresso. Why do "Artisan" roasters persist in trying to change a traditional Italian drink into something else? Maybe places serving light roasted espresso should call it something else - "English hipster coffee"

 

Because not everyone enjoys italian style espresso.

In the same way not everyone enjoys "artisan roasted coffee"


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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I'm disappointed when I go to a cafe that says " best in town, lovingly made" and I get a cup of lavazza from coffee that was ground 5 hours ago. :)


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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I'm disappointed when I go to a cafe that says " best in town, lovingly made" and I get a cup of lavazza from coffee that was ground 5 hours ago. :)

 

I'd move to a better town. Immediately!


2019 L-R with hand turned Thuya burr handles and toggles  /  1998 La Pavoni with NickNak single hole steam wand tip  /  Monolith Titan Conical & MAX  / HG-1  /  Kalita wave  /  Stag kettle  /  OCD  /  Joey Skateboard Handle Pullman Big Step & matching stirrer  /  gold B Plus stirrer  /  Push Tamper  /  Puqpress  /  15g & 18g vst  /  IMS 35μM  /  LDT  /  Barista Gear Titanium 12oz pitchers  /  LW Bean Cellars & Caddy  /  Decent thermometer  /  Acme Evo 150ml cups  /  Espazzola  /  Hottop  /  Acme and Loveramics cups /  embroidered by me bar towels  /  coffee bar towel logo embroiderer to the hoi polloi  /  in the cellars: North Star, Foundry, The Barn, HasBean, Coffee Compass  /  6 gorgeous guineas  /  a dog  /  a very lovely and understanding husband 

https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/MildredsBarTowels

 

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If I went into a French restaurant which said it was serving a roast beef and yorkshire pud, I would be very upset to receive, a "yorkshire pud" which bore no relation to what I was used to. I regularly travel to Italy and enjoy a traditional Italian espresso. Why do "Artisan" roasters persist in trying to change a traditional Italian drink into something else? Maybe places serving light roasted espresso should call it something else - "English hipster coffee"

 

I drink both Euro style, traditional espresso (presumably this cannot be made by anyone who applies care to what they do, as you for some reason link "Artisan" to hipsters & light roast?) & light roast coffee. I don't see them as mutually exclusive.

 

It's all coffee, some nice, some nasty.

 

There are plenty of places where you can drink traditional espresso & buy traditional beans if you want, just avoid what you don't want. But why wouldn't there be a British spin on a product made in Britain? Just like there is in Spain for instance? You might also want to check out Gardelli coffee, specialty roasting champ from Italy.

 

BTW artisans make things with their hands, not roasting machines, highly engineered espresso machines & grinders. Espresso only exists because of certain level of technology.


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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Because not everyone enjoys italian style espresso.

In the same way not everyone enjoys "artisan roasted coffee"

 

But should it be called Espresso?

 

I would rather have Lavazza than yellow acidic "espresso"


Londinium 1, Pharos, Ceado e37s, Gene Cafe, Aerobie

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But should it be called Espresso?

 

I would rather have Lavazza than yellow acidic "espresso"

 

Espresso is a method, not a roast, nor a bean, So if it's a strong coffee, percolated under pressure, it's espresso.

 

I would rather have Lavazza than acidic espresso too, but I'm also partial to sweet, juicy light roast espresso. Sour/acidic are brewing flaws, so don't do it/buy it/pay for it.

 

Never seen yellow espresso.


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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But should it be called Espresso?

 

I would rather have Lavazza than yellow acidic "espresso"

 

I'm not sure where or what they are making your yellow espresso with. I'd see a doctor.

Tastes change, would my. Mum and dad call bread whst people buy today.

Policeman get younger, coins smaller.

It's really probably not important what we call the drink we don't like. Just drink what you do like.


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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