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richwade80

ECM Mechanika Boiler Temp

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Dear all, what boiler pressures are you running?

 

I’ve always thought my machine runs hot, and makes noticeably hotter drinks than my old classic.

 

I adjusted my pressure stat down and the boiler now sits at 1.0bar, rising to about 1.1bar during heating.

 

I find this is okay but am still curious what others are doing. My shots still seem hot. Has anyone measured the temp of their shots?


2000 - Krups Vivo + Whittard hand grinder

2010 - Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2

2017 - ECM Mechanika IV Profi + Niche Zero

Aeropress / V60 / Puck Puck / Cafetière / Moka Pot / Ibrik (كـَنـَكـَة) / Lido E

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Are you performing a suitable cooling flush?

 

Ps: I think 1.0 bar is fine. However some people say 1.1 or 1.2 bar would be better. How’s the milk steaming? How long is your recovery time? Does it suit your routine?

 

The thing about HX machines is that your need to understand how they operate and when to pull a shot after a cooling flush. Eventually it becomes second nature, they say.

Edited by MediumRoastSteam

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The cooling flush is fine. I get a couple of seconds boiling, a couple more and then it’s good to go. My shot to shot time is about 5mins minimum, and that works.

 

Steaming is okay, I generally get a latte done in 50 seconds, probably nearer 45s, as that includes starting the shot first. I’d say it was better when the boiler pressure was higher though. Just easier.

 

The reason for querying is that some shots seem bitter with darker tones coming through. Literally darker in the cup. Sometimes I’ll pull a shot before the machine is quite up to temp, and the flavour notes come through better.


2000 - Krups Vivo + Whittard hand grinder

2010 - Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2

2017 - ECM Mechanika IV Profi + Niche Zero

Aeropress / V60 / Puck Puck / Cafetière / Moka Pot / Ibrik (كـَنـَكـَة) / Lido E

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My one runs slightly higher as @MediumRoastSteam suggests at 1.1 as it came setup by Bella Barista. Just using a cooling flush for the first shot I pull seems to be fine and I don't think I'm getting any darker/bitter tones coming through (as far as I can tell at least). For exact temperature readings maybe @kennyboy993 can help? From what I've seen in his photos he's had the Mechanika set with a temperature probe.

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Yes I’ve been fascinated and frustrated with mechanika brew temp for quite a while now.

 

I would say Rich that to really get to know your machine, as with any e61 hx, you need a brew head thermometer - as depending on all sorts of things the brew temp can be anything between 88 and 98 degrees.

 

I run my pressure topping out at 1.35 which is quite high though I do that purposely to give me more options when flushing. Eg for a light roast I’ll flush shorter. When I ran a lower pressure even a really short flush would mean a brew temp of around 93 which for some might be ok but I just wanted the option to brew at 95-96 when I chose to.

 

ECM hx machines do run cool because of the way they put plastic tubes inside the heat exchanger - they don’t run thermosyphon restrictors.

 

This is great for small flushes but a PITA if you want to make more then 2 drinks consecutively.

 

I really don’t see how people can run them at low pressures - then again mine is plumbed in so the water coming in is always cool, perhaps behaving differently to tanked machines


Plumbed in Vesuvius - BWT Bestmax - Niche in Black. Aeropress and Aergrind

 

Live and Let Live

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Interesting! I have thought about a group thermometer. I might keep an eye out for a second hand one.

 

The machine used to be up at 1.2-1.3bar, but it would need a long cooling flush before it stopped spitting. Maybe 4-5secs, which seemed long to me? Bella Barista advised me to get to about 1.1, and I’ve since adjusted a bit lower to test things. I might go back higher and see.

 

I’m not sure if I’m confused about the bitter notes. The extraction with the Niche is very different. I get much more contrast in the shot than I did before, but it looks amazing, dark reddish brown with mottling and stripes... the first few sips are almost at the extreme end of flavour, which might be causing the confusion. It tastes more even as you go on.


2000 - Krups Vivo + Whittard hand grinder

2010 - Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2

2017 - ECM Mechanika IV Profi + Niche Zero

Aeropress / V60 / Puck Puck / Cafetière / Moka Pot / Ibrik (كـَنـَكـَة) / Lido E

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Sounds all good to me Rich - I’m finding the niche the perfect partner with the mechanika.

 

Despite all my obsessions detailed above - the mechanika will deliver great temp stability at 1.1 bar as well as 1.35...... the real difference would be recovery time and whether u wanted that last bit of control over temperature.

 

Just flush to stop flash boiling and go and ensure at least 4 mins between shots.

 

Oh and never use the hot water tap before brewing - kills group head temp on an e61 hx


Plumbed in Vesuvius - BWT Bestmax - Niche in Black. Aeropress and Aergrind

 

Live and Let Live

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Interesting! I have thought about a group thermometer. I might keep an eye out for a second hand one.

 

.....

@richwade80, you could do worse than the coffee-sensor introduced by Glenn here : https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?46184-New-Sponsor-Coffee-Sensor

 

I bought one a month or so ago, for less than the price I have seen the alternatives go secondhand for. Was a bit of an eye opener for me.

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Dear all, what boiler pressures are you running?

 

I’ve always thought my machine runs hot, and makes noticeably hotter drinks than my old classic.

 

I adjusted my pressure stat down and the boiler now sits at 1.0bar, rising to about 1.1bar during heating.

 

I find this is okay but am still curious what others are doing. My shots still seem hot. Has anyone measured the temp of their shots?

 

Have you considered the possibility (in fact probability) that your classic was under temperature. 1.0 Bar is very low for an HX machine, if you thyink your shot is not hot enough, either you are not flushing properly, or your estimation of temperature is wrong. I would have thought around 1.2 to 1.35 bar would be a good base setting for that machine.


Crem One 2B DBPP (pre production version), ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DBPP (paddle flow control), Lelit Mara X Prototype, BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK, Eureka Atom Speciality 75, Eureka "Blow UP System", VDT Vibration thing: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Have you considered the possibility (in fact probability) that your classic was under temperature. 1.0 Bar is very low for an HX machine, if you thyink your shot is not hot enough, either you are not flushing properly, or your estimation of temperature is wrong. I would have thought around 1.2 to 1.35 bar would be a good base setting for that machine.

 

Thanks Dave. My classic was definitely producing cooler drinks - but! I do recall running water out of the classic to heat cups... I was probably inadvertently cooling the whole process. Back then I would not have been that interested in temperatures.

 

I will tweak the pressure back up to observe how that works. I would have thought that so long as the cooling flush stops consistently after flash boiling, there would not be any difference? (Aside from steaming performance perhaps?)

 

Thanks


2000 - Krups Vivo + Whittard hand grinder

2010 - Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2

2017 - ECM Mechanika IV Profi + Niche Zero

Aeropress / V60 / Puck Puck / Cafetière / Moka Pot / Ibrik (كـَنـَكـَة) / Lido E

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Make sure you don't over flush as well!


Crem One 2B DBPP (pre production version), ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DBPP (paddle flow control), Lelit Mara X Prototype, BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK, Eureka Atom Speciality 75, Eureka "Blow UP System", VDT Vibration thing: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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If anyone is interested in splitting an order for 2 x Coffee Sensors, let me know. 2 x sensors is €100 and qualifies for free postage to the UK. I can post the second sensor on (in the UK) at cost.

 

My ECM Technika Profi pressure cycles around 1.4 bar (max just below 1.5 bar) - but I'll double check these values. I normally use the machine after around 40 mins warm-up and flush till the flash boiling stops, normally a 3-4 secs. I have no idea what brew temperature this gives me. I make two drinks in the evening, no more than 2 mins between shots (time to clean the PF, grind and tamp) - the second shot always seams to be a cleaner pour.

 

A temp sensor would help me understand whats going on...

 

Thanks

Stuart


ECM Technika IV Profi (WT-WC), ECM S-Automatik 64, Aeropress, Aergrind

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Oh and never use the hot water tap before brewing - kills group head temp on an e61 hx

 

That's interesting. I usually heat my cup with a quick blast from the hot tap on my ECM Barista (which I assume would have similar characteristics to the Mechanika). I'll try using the kettle instead and check whether theere's any discernible difference.

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That's interesting. I usually heat my cup with a quick blast from the hot tap on my ECM Barista (which I assume would have similar characteristics to the Mechanika). I'll try using the kettle instead and check whether theere's any discernible difference.

 

A quick blast will be ok - but filling a mug would be a problem. Did u do a test?


Plumbed in Vesuvius - BWT Bestmax - Niche in Black. Aeropress and Aergrind

 

Live and Let Live

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Yes, I've tried a few shots using the kettle to warm the cup, and I couldn't taste any difference (I don't have a thermometer to measure the brew water temp though). t is only a short blast though - just a small espresso cup.

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Yes, I've tried a few shots using the kettle to warm the cup, and I couldn't taste any difference (I don't have a thermometer to measure the brew water temp though). t is only a short blast though - just a small espresso cup.

 

Out of interest, why don’t you use the cooling flush to heat your cup?

 

Surely you have to do that anyway, so may as well use the hot water?


2000 - Krups Vivo + Whittard hand grinder

2010 - Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2

2017 - ECM Mechanika IV Profi + Niche Zero

Aeropress / V60 / Puck Puck / Cafetière / Moka Pot / Ibrik (كـَنـَكـَة) / Lido E

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Out of interest, why don’t you use the cooling flush to heat your cup?

 

Surely you have to do that anyway, so may as well use the hot water?

 

Because the flush tends to have odd bits of old coffee grounds in it.

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Because the flush tends to have odd bits of old coffee grounds in it.

 

I see. I go for a flush and wipe. This discussion now sounds a bit horrible...


2000 - Krups Vivo + Whittard hand grinder

2010 - Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2

2017 - ECM Mechanika IV Profi + Niche Zero

Aeropress / V60 / Puck Puck / Cafetière / Moka Pot / Ibrik (كـَنـَكـَة) / Lido E

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Just an update on this.

 

The machine is fine. It’s the Barista which is the problem... sort of.

 

I researched milk temperatures on the forum and figured out I was steaming for too long. The temperature on the thermometer rises quite a lot after steaming has finished.

 

I needed to ‘pull out sooner’ so to speak. I now stop at around 120F

 

The thing that was confusing is that using the same pitcher and thermometer on a Gaggia Classic resulted in a cooler drink. I expect that steaming/heating probably took longer on the classic, (and I used to make larger drinks) so probably less apparent gain in temperature after steaming.


2000 - Krups Vivo + Whittard hand grinder

2010 - Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2

2017 - ECM Mechanika IV Profi + Niche Zero

Aeropress / V60 / Puck Puck / Cafetière / Moka Pot / Ibrik (كـَنـَكـَة) / Lido E

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I think I am at 60c so you are at 48c that's not hot, I have I have always used finger temp, I'm done in


SAGE IS NOT A UPGRADE

 

 

:)

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Just an update on this.

 

The machine is fine. It’s the Barista which is the problem... sort of.

 

I researched milk temperatures on the forum and figured out I was steaming for too long. The temperature on the thermometer rises quite a lot after steaming has finished.

 

I needed to ‘pull out sooner’ so to speak. I now stop at around 120F

 

The thing that was confusing is that using the same pitcher and thermometer on a Gaggia Classic resulted in a cooler drink. I expect that steaming/heating probably took longer on the classic, (and I used to make larger drinks) so probably less apparent gain in temperature after steaming.

 

By all means, keep the thermometer if you want, but also train your hand to know when to stop by temperature. For instance, hold the pitcher and keep your fingers touching the lower side or bottom of the jug. When it feels too hot to touch, close the steam tap. Clean it with a wet cloth, tap tap the jug, swirl a few times and pour.

 

I find milk thermometers just get on the way. It’s a good aid, but in my case I used it a couple of times and find that my own on skin sensors are more practical and more responsive than the mechanical one.

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I think I am at 60c so you are at 48c that's not hot, I have I have always used finger temp, I'm done in

 

I stop at 120 and it keeps going on the counter to about 140 to 150! So maybe we aren’t so far apart in the end.

 

I use full fat Waitrose organic tree hugging mega expensive milk. I don’t know how much exactly (120ml I guess). Takes probably 40s though with standard two hole wand.

 

I imagine using your hand is like having your fingerprints burnt off.


2000 - Krups Vivo + Whittard hand grinder

2010 - Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2

2017 - ECM Mechanika IV Profi + Niche Zero

Aeropress / V60 / Puck Puck / Cafetière / Moka Pot / Ibrik (كـَنـَكـَة) / Lido E

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I stop at 120 and it keeps going on the counter to about 140 to 150! So maybe we aren’t so far apart in the end.

 

I use full fat Waitrose organic tree hugging mega expensive milk. I don’t know how much exactly (120ml I guess). Takes probably 40s though with standard two hole wand.

 

I imagine using your hand is like having your fingerprints burnt off.

 

When I view my last post on Tapatalk it doesn’t show up. Hopefully this will show it properly. The website is fine.


2000 - Krups Vivo + Whittard hand grinder

2010 - Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2

2017 - ECM Mechanika IV Profi + Niche Zero

Aeropress / V60 / Puck Puck / Cafetière / Moka Pot / Ibrik (كـَنـَكـَة) / Lido E

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I used to use the plam if my hand on the bottom of the jug to judge temp..and got good results. I decided to stop as the skin on my palm started peeling!!

Now use a temptag tri sticker...which works well and is less painful.

So be careful...

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