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Single dose grinder

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what on earth did I just read?

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3 hours ago, Zwanger said:

And how do you know these are not the same burrs? I see you don't miss a chance to quote me and attack me directly.  Let me just use the ignore function on you.

Why do you even bother coming on here with all of your hostility? These are usually helpful folk that you continually prod. There are other places that you can go.

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AKA Toffee chips

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64mm burrs will be given a pass by many. Also this is just a press release until people test the grinder properly this is just another grinder on the market. Comparison to the monolith at this point are just silly

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I am not comparing it to Monolith. The monolith fanboy brought monolith into discussion.

I have no interest in buying this grinder, I already have a far more superior one.

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52 minutes ago, Zwanger said:

I am not comparing it to Monolith. The monolith fanboy brought monolith into discussion.

I have no interest in buying this grinder, I already have a far more superior one.

I am actually interested in the grinder, but will take some time to see some in the wild and performing before I draw any conclusions . The 600 dollar non refundable deposit is too much of a risk for me on a product that hasn't seen any bench tested yet. 

Your tone really comes over as aggressive on here, at least to me  . This could be completely unintended on your part or you might just not care. 

If you want to influence people ls thoughts or make debate often what you say will be obscured by how you say it.

 

 

Edited by Mrboots2u
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I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

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How about you stop pointing that every few hours and let the moderators do their job if I am not respecting the forum rules. Since I started posting you are really concerned about my posts, why? Or if you don't like my way of posting, then simply add me to the ignore list. There is also a report button, top right of posts, feel free to use it.

We are different, we have different purposes on forums. Maybe you have to accept that.  There are only a few people who will understand my posts, for me it's enough, the big majority will just debate for infinity my posts and I have no intention to act nice and post smileys, I just care about fast results that work for me.

Edited by Zwanger

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12 minutes ago, Zwanger said:

How about you stop pointing that every few hours and let the moderators do their job if I am not respecting the forum rules. Since I started posting you are really concerned about my posts, why? Or if you don't like my way of posting, then simply add me to the ignore list. There is also a report button, top right of posts, feel free to use it.

We are different, we have different purposes on forums. Maybe you have to accept that.  There are only a few people who will understand my posts, for me it's enough, the big majority will just debate for infinity my posts and I have no intention to act nice and post smileys, I just care about fast results that work for me.

I am replying to your posts, and trying to remain civil and polite. 

There is a difference between forums rules and just being civil, rules are there to guide minimum behaviour, civility for me isn't a minimum standard. 

I myself often fail at the civility i seek in others,  , tone and meaning on the internet can be misconstrued easily, but at the heart of my intentions is trying to help people , no matter how often i stray with some of my posts. 

Anyway I am interested so am asking.

What is your purpose on the forum then ? To help ? Educate ? Improve people's coffee experience , because again tone plays an important part in how well that goes for you and how you get across what you are doing. 

Re not many people not understanding, I get the sense that if someone doesn't agree with you , then you write it off as them not being able to understand your theories. Again not a great way to help or educate. 

If none of the above interests you then you are just essentially shouting in an empty room about how great you are at making coffee and then sticking your fingers in your ears when someone asks you about it. 

 

 

Edited by Mrboots2u
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I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

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Brainstorming on grinder burr size. This is just an example (it is not accurate or right 100%) to show that burr diameter is not everything and a grinder should not be rated just by burr size.

The formula to calculate cutting speed is :  π * burr diameter* grinder rpm/1000 (m/min).

I don't know the inside hole diameter of grinder burrs, so I will just exemplify w/o taking in consideration that.

MK Ek43:
3.14·98 mm*1400rpm/1000= 430 m/min.

MK Kenya

3.14*64mm*2850rpm/1000=572 m/min

Eg1
3.14*80mm*1800rpm/1000= 452 m/min
3.14*80mm*1000rpm/1000= 251 m/min

One of my grinders:

MK Guatemala SB

3.14*73mm*2850rpm/1000= 653 m/min

The main problem remains how you stuff the single dose (beans) into the burrs. Are you gonna throw them with a shovel at once, so they get masacrated and create pony dust, or are you gonna do it in a more civilized manner using a transportation shaft, that delays the grinding from 1 sec for 18g up to 6 sec. The way that you throw the beans in the burr chambers has a huge impact on distribution, the rpm is related to this.

Diameter is related directly to rotation, and adding more rotation or less you need to change the way you add the beans.

Monolith have low rpm and all the beans are shoveled inside. Ek43 has higher rpm and the beans are transported divided into the burr chamber. With the latest Titus burr carrier the grinder is even better as the time to chop 18g of beans increased from 2-3 sec to 5-6 sec.

And another example, in order to achieve the Guatemala SB 73 mm/2850 rpm cutting speed the Ek43 would need a 140 mm burrs and the EG1 would need ~ 117 mm burrs at 1800 rpm. Size is not everything.  Titus grinding solution posted an experiment on Instagram saying higher rpm results in a more uniform grind. But that is again related on bean feed.

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Is there any scientific data on the impact on grind consistency using low - medium - high grind speed? The EK design coupled with burr size and fast grind speed means the beans are in contact with the burrs for a very short time. In my case, 18 grms in two to three seconds. 


Londinium-R - EKS43 running SSP Silver Knight burrs

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From the very limited experimentation I've done I'd say that slow speeds are shite for consistency. I also believe that burrs are meant to be used at a specific range of speeds and going outside of that doesn't give good results (not unusable maybe, but not optimal either).

T.

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Espresso: Londinium L1, ZR-71 grinder

Photography: Flickr

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I love a calculation!
 

Just to keep in mind: the mentioned Mahlkönigs have an auger to help with feeding beans in, horziontally. They're originally not meant to be used for single dosing, therefore augers don't only transport the charge. They also slow things down to create a more even flow with regards to a full hopper.

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Augers + vertical burrs also eliminate the burr load which means they are much better at single dosing (vs full hopper). In Mazzers for example you need a full hopper for a steady column of beans pushing down on the burrs, in vertical burr arrangements the column is offset and doesn't act directly on the burrs (which is better from a consistency pov).

T.

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Espresso: Londinium L1, ZR-71 grinder

Photography: Flickr

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The EK was originally designed, back in the '80s?, as a bulk grinder - hence the 1.4 horsepower motor. It was a workhorse or should that be cart horse designed to chomp through a kilo at a time.  I believe you can run it for 40mins continuous grind time - something I don't often do.  It wasn't designed, as far as I know, as dose grinder. It wasn't until Matt Perger came along and used one in his WBC routine that people started taking notice. 

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Londinium-R - EKS43 running SSP Silver Knight burrs

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2 minutes ago, The Systemic Kid said:

 something I don't often do

There you admitted that, occasionally, you do :D

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It certainly wasn't, still it should theoretically work better at single dosing than a horizontal burr setup + bean column (btw Mazzer doesn't even hide this as they say you should always run with a full hopper).

T.


Espresso: Londinium L1, ZR-71 grinder

Photography: Flickr

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5 minutes ago, Hasi said:

There you admitted that, occasionally, you do :D

Pedant

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Londinium-R - EKS43 running SSP Silver Knight burrs

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Mahlkonig designed  and build motors starting from 1924, later switched to grinders for cereals/spices and later on switched to coffee things.

Mahlkonig bought or has something to do with Favorite and Zwanger Grinders in the 1960, when FAvorite/Zwanger went broke and Mahlkonig bought them.

 

Here is a piece of history, as you can see from the photo the geometry is similar to ProM/Lagom grinder, it works great in brew or light roasts (tested).

In the first picture, we can see the grandparents of Mahlkonig VT6a/ Guatemala and Kenya, and in the second pictures we can see the ek43 in its old shape.

Believe it or not some parts remained from those older models grinders.  I love grinders, I had many, I tested many.

Ek43 can grind big piles of beans (see last photo), but almost nobody uses it like that. Even in coffee shop it's barely used in brews. It took me some time to find a coffee shop using ek43 for espresso. I believe ek43 came out around 1998-2000.

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Edited by Zwanger

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7 minutes ago, Zwanger said:

 

 

 

 

 

Believe it or not some parts remained from those older models grinders. 

That doesn't surprise me in the least😀

Ek43 can grind big piles of beans (see last photo), but almost nobody uses it like that. Even in coffee shop it's barely used in brews. It took me some time to find a coffee shop using ek43 for espresso.

Following Perger's WBC shtik, quite a few 3rd wave coffee shops embraced EKs for espresso - didn't last long. Mk I coffee burrs couldn't cope with lighter roasts. Then you've got the logistics of single dosing in busy shop environments and, last but not least, EKs require more attention to barista technique - something 3Fe in Dublin pointed out when they tried an EK for espresso in their shop. 


Londinium-R - EKS43 running SSP Silver Knight burrs

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