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17g dose on my VST 18g was easier to work with (stirring, tamping), but hasn't changed how much shot times change when adjusting grind settings:

- 17g in, 34 out, in 18s, at Niche mark 6 1/3 (six and one third)

- 17g in, 34 out, in 26s, at Niche mark 5 1/2 (five and a half)

No visible signs of fracturing.  I pressed the wet puck with my fingers and noticed that the centre is dense while around the periphery feels quite soft.  Not sure if that's normal as I never do puckology.  Maybe it's about how I stir with LDT in the portafilter, but then it worked so well for the HasBean cherry decaf which has had crystal-clear flavour and silky texture without any harshness (it's unbelievable when you experience that for the first time).

I'm wondering if puck fracturing can happen without any visible signs.  I'll go and have a read on the forum.  Still got a few doses left.

Lelit MaraX | Niche Zero with NFC | Acaia Lunar | VST 15g, 18g, 20g | IMS 200 IM | Londinium Distribution Tool | Osmio Zero water remineralised to 40KH + 68GH

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Just got my Niche and am just in love with the haptics and looks and baffled by the nice, low humming sound it makes when idling. I switched from the Baratza Sette and Virtuoso and it’s like night and

Meanwhile, 99% of Niche owners (and no doubt owners of other grinders) just make coffee and the grey matter is directed towards other things in life.   (it is a user experience thread...)

Damn - I thought it was me slowly getting better. 

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3 hours ago, PD2020 said:

17g dose on my VST 18g was easier to work with (stirring, tamping), but hasn't changed how much shot times change when adjusting grind settings:

- 17g in, 34 out, in 18s, at Niche mark 6 1/3 (six and one third)

- 17g in, 34 out, in 26s, at Niche mark 5 1/2 (five and a half)

No visible signs of fracturing.  I pressed the wet puck with my fingers and noticed that the centre is dense while around the periphery feels quite soft.  Not sure if that's normal as I never do puckology.  Maybe it's about how I stir with LDT in the portafilter, but then it worked so well for the HasBean cherry decaf which has had crystal-clear flavour and silky texture without any harshness (it's unbelievable when you experience that for the first time).

I'm wondering if puck fracturing can happen without any visible signs.  I'll go and have a read on the forum.  Still got a few doses left.

Very interesting.... And I have to say, you are not alone. I sometimes find the same thing... like, for me, setting 14 gives me a 30s shot, whereas setting 13 gives me a 40s shot. A huge difference. I also dose 18g into a VST 18g.

i don’t think there’s anything wrong with my prep, my naked PF shots look good, no signs of channeling.

 

 

Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

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4 hours ago, PD2020 said:

17g dose on my VST 18g was easier to work with (stirring, tamping), but hasn't changed how much shot times change when adjusting grind settings:

- 17g in, 34 out, in 18s, at Niche mark 6 1/3 (six and one third)

- 17g in, 34 out, in 26s, at Niche mark 5 1/2 (five and a half)

No visible signs of fracturing.  I pressed the wet puck with my fingers and noticed that the centre is dense while around the periphery feels quite soft.  Not sure if that's normal as I never do puckology.  Maybe it's about how I stir with LDT in the portafilter, but then it worked so well for the HasBean cherry decaf which has had crystal-clear flavour and silky texture without any harshness (it's unbelievable when you experience that for the first time).

I'm wondering if puck fracturing can happen without any visible signs.  I'll go and have a read on the forum.  Still got a few doses left.

How does it taste ...

chenneling can happen without visible puck fracturing 

lastly puck logs is a dead end to go down tbh 

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I agree that, especially with the NFC disk, the difference between two marks on the dial can be quite significant. @MediumRoastSteam 10s doesn't suprise me all too much. Before the NFC disk, a meaningful adjustment for espresso (for me) was probably 1/2 a mark, now I often make changes of 1/4 or 1/8 (you're just eyeballing it at this point but that's the beauty of stepless...) which make meaningful and repeatable differences to the extraction. I'm typically around the 9 mark, 18 VST with long pre-infusion times (15s+).

My extraction times are remarkably consistent when not changing grind, though. The last 10 or so shots I've done of this bean have all met the target yield at 42s when in reality 2/3s variances is perfectly reasonable.

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22 hours ago, Mrboots2u said:

How does it taste ...

chenneling can happen without visible puck fracturing 

lastly puck logs is a dead end to go down tbh 

Hi Mrboots2u. Taste wasn't, perhaps because I struggled too much to get to the target time. My guess was that I must be doing something wrong. Dave's explanation (puck fracturing) made lots of sense, but it could be something else in my case.

Lelit MaraX | Niche Zero with NFC | Acaia Lunar | VST 15g, 18g, 20g | IMS 200 IM | Londinium Distribution Tool | Osmio Zero water remineralised to 40KH + 68GH

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23 hours ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

Very interesting.... And I have to say, you are not alone. I sometimes find the same thing... like, for me, setting 14 gives me a 30s shot, whereas setting 13 gives me a 40s shot. A huge difference. I also dose 18g into a VST 18g.

i don’t think there’s anything wrong with my prep, my naked PF shots look good, no signs of channeling.

 

 

 

22 hours ago, catpuccino said:

I agree that, especially with the NFC disk, the difference between two marks on the dial can be quite significant. @MediumRoastSteam 10s doesn't suprise me all too much. Before the NFC disk, a meaningful adjustment for espresso (for me) was probably 1/2 a mark, now I often make changes of 1/4 or 1/8 (you're just eyeballing it at this point but that's the beauty of stepless...) which make meaningful and repeatable differences to the extraction. I'm typically around the 9 mark, 18 VST with long pre-infusion times (15s+).

My extraction times are remarkably consistent when not changing grind, though. The last 10 or so shots I've done of this bean have all met the target yield at 42s when in reality 2/3s variances is perfectly reasonable.

Ok, pleased to be in company of 2 experienced forum members then 😉

I'm only starting out in the world of espresso, so treat what I'm going to say with a pinch of salt.  Having thought about this I can't recall having such a level of sensitivity of Niche settings before switching to IMS 200 shower screen.  From what I've seen MediumRoastSteam you also use it.  Not sure about Catpuccino.

On the other hand from what I recall DaveC does not use IMS screens, so maybe that's why he experiences a lower impact of 1 mark (2-5s or so).

I shall do an experiment this week, put the stock screen back and observe the impact of different grinder settings on the shot time.  Just waiting for my newly ordered 1kg of decaf to rest enough.

If this theory makes any sense, it would be cool if you could try that too.  Otherwise let me know it's total nonsense 😉

Lelit MaraX | Niche Zero with NFC | Acaia Lunar | VST 15g, 18g, 20g | IMS 200 IM | Londinium Distribution Tool | Osmio Zero water remineralised to 40KH + 68GH

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7 minutes ago, PD2020 said:

 

Ok, pleased to be in company of 2 experienced forum members then 😉

I'm only starting out in the world of espresso, so treat what I'm going to say with a pinch of salt.  Having thought about this I can't recall having such a level of sensitivity of Niche settings before switching to IMS 200 shower screen.  From what I've seen MediumRoastSteam you also use it.  Not sure about Catpuccino.

On the other hand from what I recall DaveC does not use IMS screens, so maybe that's why he experiences a lower impact of 1 mark (2-5s or so).

I shall do an experiment this week, put the stock screen back and observe the impact of different grinder settings on the shot time.  Just waiting for my newly ordered 1kg of decaf to rest enough.

If this theory makes any sense, it would be cool if you could try that too.  Otherwise let me know it's total nonsense 😉

Nope. I have not been using the IMS screen on my machine. I save you the hassle of experimenting. 😉

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Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

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Just come on here to do a little dance
Mine's just arrived today.  Oh my - it looks even better in the flesh, and it's sooooo quiet

Looking forward to getting to grips with it..... and having the caffeine shakes for days, no doubt!

MaraX; Niche Zero; Aeropress
[Past: Delonghi Caffe Treviso; Delonghi EC702; Dualit EL60; Ascaso i-3 Mini]

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Oh dear:-) the quality of the grind is impressive though..

I’m on November batchn and the wait is killing me! Currently using ascaso i-steel i1, which is very noisy[emoji85] not mentioning the huge retention.

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2 hours ago, Rifik said:

Oh dear:-) the quality of the grind is impressive though..

I’m on November batchn and the wait is killing me! Currently using ascaso i-steel i1, which is very noisyemoji85.png not mentioning the huge retention.

I'm only one month ahead of you.  I've *just* retired my i3 Mini today as the Niche arrived (Oct batch).  The difference is phenomenal already.  You'll love it.  Just keep polishing the ascaso in the meantime! :)

Edited by stockportman

MaraX; Niche Zero; Aeropress
[Past: Delonghi Caffe Treviso; Delonghi EC702; Dualit EL60; Ascaso i-3 Mini]

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5 hours ago, espressoSquirrel said:

Not having a doser may take some getting used to

image.thumb.jpeg.4a8b40c3eee45cb9d466d939ced7c1f7.jpeg

This picture made me laugh so hard!  I received my Niche in April 2019.  In the first week, I did this very same thing... I stood there, dosing cup in hand, admiring my Niche, loving how quiet it was, as the freshly ground coffee piled up below the chute!  I cleaned up the mess I had made and vowed to be more careful in the future.  Can you believe I actually did it again a week later! 

 

Rocket Giotto Type V - Niche Zero - Acaia Lunar - IMS Shower Screen - VST baskets - St. Anthony BT Wedge - Pullman Big Step - Espazzola Cleaning Tool

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Day 2 of Niche ownership. I will agree the quality of the grind and extraction is a huge leap forward for me. But I am seeing 10-15 second differences in shot time between a single stop right now?

Could this be down to seasoning the burrs? Going to get a load of cheap beans tomorrow.

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30 minutes ago, mbenney said:

Day 2 of Niche ownership. I will agree the quality of the grind and extraction is a huge leap forward for me. But I am seeing 10-15 second differences in shot time between a single stop right now?

Could this be down to seasoning the burrs? Going to get a load of cheap beans tomorrow.

I concur. Mine is over 2 years old. Around the ballpark area, moving the dial 1 step often means a difference of approx 10 seconds. 

 

See post 2830 above.

Edited by MediumRoastSteam

Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

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Day 2 of Niche ownership. I will agree the quality of the grind and extraction is a huge leap forward for me. But I am seeing 10-15 second differences in shot time between a single stop right now?
Could this be down to seasoning the burrs? Going to get a load of cheap beans tomorrow.

I was getting around 3-4 seconds between stops last night on the little play I had dialling in.

New beans this morning and had a 41 second shot which was quite over extracted so have adjusted 2 stops for my afternoon cup in a bit so it’ll be interesting to see how much faster 2 stops will be with the LSOL beans I’m now using.
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3-4 seconds between stops sounds more like it. However... I’ve had +/- 3s or more on the same setting because of any of the following reasons:

Transferring grinds into the pf
Humidity (cooking going on)
Last beans of a packet
First beans if not rested
Bad distribution
Channeling (not always visible in the puck)
Lack of general skill
Pixies


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2000 - Krups Vivo + Whittard hand grinder
2010 - Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2
2017 - ECM Mechanika IV Profi + Niche Zero
2020 - Londinium R + Niche Zero
Aeropress / V60 / Puck Puck / Cafetière / Moka Pot / Ibrik (كـَنـَكـَة) / Lido E

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1 minute ago, richwade80 said:

3-4 seconds between stops sounds more like it. However... I’ve had +/- 3s or more on the same setting because of any of the following reasons:

Transferring grinds into the pf
Humidity (cooking going on)
Last beans of a packet
First beans if not rested
Bad distribution
Channeling (not always visible in the puck)
Lack of general skill
Pixies


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With the disk in place?

Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

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With the disk in place?

Yep. It was quite rare and mostly down to getting the grinds out of the cup consistently. I noticed that the odd shot could last a lot longer which highlighted I wasn’t prepping well enough.

I changed my method and it went away.


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2000 - Krups Vivo + Whittard hand grinder
2010 - Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2
2017 - ECM Mechanika IV Profi + Niche Zero
2020 - Londinium R + Niche Zero
Aeropress / V60 / Puck Puck / Cafetière / Moka Pot / Ibrik (كـَنـَكـَة) / Lido E

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