Jump to content
RobW

IMS competition shower screen on R58

Recommended Posts

I thought I'd try an IMS competition shower screen on my R58. I found the stock screen really difficult to remove and so I thought an IMS 200 micron competition screen would save me having to remove it for cleaning so often.

 

With the stock screen I got some flow through on the preinfusion lever position (using water tank) but there is nothing from the IMS screen. It also seems to have increased the brew pressure to near 10 bar.

 

I'm curious if anybody else found this if you've used an IMS screen? I'm now wondering if I need to knock the pump pressure down a bit.

 

Quality of extractions and taste in the cup haven't improved, although that wasn't the object of the exercise.


Londinium R and Kafatek MC3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi.

 

As far as I know, the R58 has a rotary pump, and the pressure is measured at the head of the pump, and not at the group. You’ll notice they the pressure will read exactly the same regardless whether you have a a ports filter loaded with a blank disk or coffee, or weather the portafilter is there or not, or whether the shower screen is there or not. So I find that strange. Put the old screen back, check the pressure: It should not be different.

 

Re: pre-infusion without a machine plumbed in: the water in there will be the water from the loop. It will only wet the puck at the top. The water there is not under pressure so it will not pre-infuse.

 

To remove the stock screen or the IMS: use an upside down teaspoon and slot it on the groove of the screen, yank it against the group. Very simple, and there are videos on utube. You should really remove the screen at least once a week and clean the gasket, the screen and around the group thoroughly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason you are not getting water through in pre-infusion as stated above it is not under pressure but also the fine gauze of the screen will increase the surface tension of the water and will hold more water in the mesh. If you had pressure pr-infusion it would come through as normal.

 

Ref the brew pressure, there will be a slight increase in resistance to water flow due to the reduced apertures caused by the gauze mesh.

 

Judge by the taste of your coffee, if you feel the need adjust the pressure. Is it only since you changed the screen OR had you not really noticed before ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi.

 

As far as I know, the R58 has a rotary pump, and the pressure is measured at the head of the pump, and not at the group. You’ll notice they the pressure will read exactly the same regardless whether you have a a ports filter loaded with a blank disk or coffee, or weather the portafilter is there or not, or whether the shower screen is there or not. So I find that strange. Put the old screen back, check the pressure: It should not be different.

 

Re: pre-infusion without a machine plumbed in: the water in there will be the water from the loop. It will only wet the puck at the top. The water there is not under pressure so it will not pre-infuse.

 

To remove the stock screen or the IMS: use an upside down teaspoon and slot it on the groove of the screen, yank it against the group. Very simple, and there are videos on utube. You should really remove the screen at least once a week and clean the gasket, the screen and around the group thoroughly.

 

I'll switch back the screen and see if the pressure changes. I'm pretty sure it was previously closer to 9 bar. My problem with the removal is that I've already managed to mark the group due to the amount of force needed to lever the screen out. The brass is like butter. I'd rather not risk damaging it.


Londinium R and Kafatek MC3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'll switch back the screen and see if the pressure changes. I'm pretty sure it was previously closer to 9 bar. My problem with the removal is that I've already managed to mark the group due to the amount of force needed to lever the screen out. The brass is like butter. I'd rather not risk damaging it.

 

I am surprised, but then people sell a pointed tool for gouging out group gaskets. In my personal experience, if they are removed every 2-3 days for cleaning it's never a problem. They only seem to stick in if not removed for months?

 

See the video below from 4m onwards and you will see just how easy it is (or should be).

 

krPGvdNjVl0N09pAFwILyJ Edited by DavecUK

ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mine is definitely much stiffer than that. When I tried using a spoon the spoon just bent! It isn't a dirt thing, I've only had it a couple of weeks and there was no dirt behind the screen.


Londinium R and Kafatek MC3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mine is definitely much stiffer than that. When I tried using a spoon the spoon just bent! It isn't a dirt thing, I've only had it a couple of weeks and there was no dirt behind the screen.

 

Could it be technique, I've not really had a problem with all 100+ different machines I have tested over the years. I always remove the group gaskets as part of the testing?


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mine is definitely much stiffer than that. When I tried using a spoon the spoon just bent! It isn't a dirt thing, I've only had it a couple of weeks and there was no dirt behind the screen.

 

You need better quality spoons...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A broad stubby screwdriver with a good blade will supply the required leverage.

 

I'm with @MediumRoastSteam in the better quality spoons camp.

 

just a thought, they do often come out easier when cold or about 5 minutes after switching machine on.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I managed to get mine out with a plastic baby spoon. It marked the spoon, but that was kind of the idea. Not to mark the group....


2000 - Krups Vivo + Whittard hand grinder

2010 - Gaggia Classic + Iberital MC2

2017 - ECM Mechanika IV Profi + Niche Zero

Aeropress / V60 / Puck Puck / Cafetière / Moka Pot / Ibrik (كـَنـَكـَة) / Lido E

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, so I swapped back to the original screen and I was wrong about the pressure, still 9.5 bar so the screen was not impacting that.

 

I wrapped a spoon in insulating tape as suggested by @Jollybean to do it and that does avoid marks on the group. Still takes several minutes and a reasonable amount of force to get the thing out. Hopefully I'll develop a knack for it. Anybody apply a lubricant to the group to help make it easier?

 

I also think you can get silicone gaskets - are those easier?


Londinium R and Kafatek MC3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rob having read this thread through again, don't put the different screen in just for the reason of not cleaning it so often, loadsa money spent........ clean the screen and behind the screen/dispersion disk every 2-3 days, really helps the taste. once you start removing it regularly it will come off easy.

 

For pump pressure just dial it down a tad to 9 bar, it only takes a few minutes to do.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rob having read this thread through again, don't put the different screen in just for the reason of not cleaning it so often, loadsa money spent........ clean the screen and behind the screen/dispersion disk every 2-3 days, really helps the taste. once you start removing it regularly it will come off easy.

 

For pump pressure just dial it down a tad to 9 bar, it only takes a few minutes to do.

 

I've dialled down the pump pressure, now 9 bar through the majority of the extraction. Not a huge difference but I think it has improved the quality of the extractions - they certainly look good with the naked portafilter!

 

I'm now using a metal bike tyre lever wrapped in electrical insulating tape to remove the screen which is a bit easier to use. I *think* it is getting a bit easier.

 

The next fun bit will be removing the dispersion disk. The factory have put that in pretty tight as well and I need a fatter screwdriver to avoid damaging it.


Londinium R and Kafatek MC3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

File the curve off a washer to suit the length of slot. If desperately tight you can hold the washer in pliers / adjustable spanner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just ordered one of these screens for the Verona. Would lije your thoughts, seems better at distributing the water rather than the centre streams I'm having with the stock screen.


Espresso: Quick Mill Verona

Grinder: Mythos and loving it

Tampers: Reg Barber flat 58.35

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just ordered one of these screens for the Verona. Would lije your thoughts, seems better at distributing the water rather than the centre streams I'm having with the stock screen.

 

The IMS screen does provide a more even distribution. Not sure there is a noticeable difference in taste, but I think it does stop coffee particles going back through the group head. I replaced the rubber gasket with a Cafelat silicone one and it is much easier to get in and out. I still remove it to clean every couple of days, but hopefully it will keep the E61 internals from getting gunk in. I backflush clean every month but I don't get much if any residue coming out of the exhaust.


Londinium R and Kafatek MC3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ordered a standard 8mm gasket but realised I need a 8.5mm and quite fancy the cafelat silicone one, but kept reading conflicting reviews on them.

May give I a go.


Espresso: Quick Mill Verona

Grinder: Mythos and loving it

Tampers: Reg Barber flat 58.35

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ordered a standard 8mm gasket but realised I need a 8.5mm and quite fancy the cafelat silicone one, but kept reading conflicting reviews on them.

May give I a go.

+1 for the cafelat they are worth it in the correct size that is...

It doesn't matter how you get there it's only the end result that matters

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've dialled down the pump pressure, now 9 bar through the majority of the extraction. Not a huge difference but I think it has improved the quality of the extractions - they certainly look good with the naked portafilter!

 

I'm now using a metal bike tyre lever wrapped in electrical insulating tape to remove the screen which is a bit easier to use. I *think* it is getting a bit easier.

 

The next fun bit will be removing the dispersion disk. The factory have put that in pretty tight as well and I need a fatter screwdriver to avoid damaging it.

 

Yeah largest flat blade you got and remove all the drip tray etc to get in nice and square, after Dave's advice before I do mine weekly or more, the screen and this disc thing, it all builds up like an oily film quite quickly.

For the screen and gasket I find using a smaller flat blade screw driver up in the 2 slots where group head tangs go means its comes out easy.


Thanks

 

Lee. (R58 and Zenith 65e)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ordered a standard 8mm gasket but realised I need a 8.5mm and quite fancy the cafelat silicone one, but kept reading conflicting reviews on them.

May give I a go.

+1 for the blue Cafelat gasket on R58. Lovely and soft, once properly seated, the PF seals against it with the lightest of twists but it's soft enough to absorb further turns. (My spouted and naked PFs used to lock in at slightly different angles, but the Cafelat allows both to lock in at "6 o'clock).

 

___

Eat, drink and be merry


Rocket R58Ceado E37SAeropressAerGrind • Puck Puck cold brew widget • VST 18g basket • Torr Goldfinger 58.5 convex black Ti/walnut tamper • Torr Goldfinger 58.5 flat sharp edge tamper • Big bag o' beans • Triumph Street Triple 675R

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just ordered from BB the blue gasket and IMS competition screen was 24.95 said on sale but not sure if thats a good price or not!

My R58 is coming up to 2 years old and not really done much to it apart from cleaning or had any issues so far, so thought treat it, how long do the gaskets last usually?


Thanks

 

Lee. (R58 and Zenith 65e)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had no need to do anything to mine apart from replacing the group gasket for a blue Cafelat (other than regular cleaning and lubing). The original gasket had gone a bit hard after a couple of years' use. I wasn't having issues with it, but I replaced it when I got the naked PF because every time I washed the shower screen I could tell it was too hard and due for replacement. I think the standard gaskets will generally need replacing every year or so, but silicone ones will probably last much longer.

 

___

Eat, drink and be merry


Rocket R58Ceado E37SAeropressAerGrind • Puck Puck cold brew widget • VST 18g basket • Torr Goldfinger 58.5 convex black Ti/walnut tamper • Torr Goldfinger 58.5 flat sharp edge tamper • Big bag o' beans • Triumph Street Triple 675R

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, I have not used any cleaning stuff or pellets yet on it, last year got that silicone group head cleaner thingy for get what its called (espolizer lol).

I think are meant to put in some cleaning pellet things in blind basket and flush it through?


Thanks

 

Lee. (R58 and Zenith 65e)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • About:

    Coffee Forums UK is the UK's premier coffee forum Started in June 2008 by Glenn Watson, we now have more than 22000 mainly UK based members, and welcome more than 3000 members and visitors from around the world each day! With strategic investment and digital expertise from the Jackson Lockhart team (Tait Pollack and Adam Bateman), we are taking Coffee Forums UK to the next level, and are delighted to share the journey with you.

    New Members:

    We are often referred to as the friendliest forum on the web and we look forward to welcoming you onboard.

    Terms of Use

    Advertising

    Coffee Forums Media Kit

    Buy Advertising Space

    Donate

    Get Your Supporter Badge (per year)

×
×
  • Create New...