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12 minutes ago, dsc said:

, so I'm not so sure I'm not pulling shots with water that is waaay too cold.
 

Wouldn't that be obvious in terms of under-extraction?

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So, 2 weeks in I thought I'd post my impressions of the Robot so far. I'd read a lot about it mostly on the HB forum where the overall consensus is very positive. However espresso can't really be

Congratulations 😁 I really like the smart new red colour. As much as I like the retro colours I think this new colour will appeal to a whole new would-be buyers 😁  Sounds like you’re thoroughly e

Third shot on the Robot. 17.0g in 40.5g out in 38s. Preinfusion for 6s at 2 bar, then 8 bar declining to 4 bar at the end. TDS was 8.2% with EY 20.2% which is similar to what I get on the L1.

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Wouldn't that be obvious in terms of under-extraction?
Yes and I'm not entirely happy with the taste (I was overly dramatic when I said "waaaay too cold" above).
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I put the basket and piston in a cappuccino cup and fill with boiling water. Gives time for the Stainless to heat up.

Once hot, I then fill, tamp, add the shower screen and finally the straight boiling water on top.

Works for medium roasts, haven’t tried very light yet. Compared the temp in cup from an L1 and Robot and very similar.

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  • 1 month later...
Can anyone advise whether my Comandante C40 can provide the correct grind for the Robot.
 
Thanks.
I think it would be fine, my Kinu hand grinders have all had comparable results with my Niche using the Robot + the grind required is fine but not as fine as you would need on a pump machine.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

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On 05/04/2020 at 18:27, Stevebee said:

I put the basket and piston in a cappuccino cup and fill with boiling water. Gives time for the Stainless to heat up.

The piston?! I really really hope you meant the portafilter. If not, the Robot may be down from the top position on my shortlist of espresso gear I'm considering to order.

If you have experience in using your Feld47 in combination with the Robot, I would really appreciate your thoughts on that (if I do end up ordering the Robot, I was hoping to get a good team if I paired it with my own Feld47).

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I also heat up the piston as I find it brews too cool with lighter roasts. Bit of a faff but doable, I fill a glass with boiling water, stick the basket and PF in it whilst I grind. Then take the basket out of the water, dry, fill, distribute, tamp, paper filter on top, shower screen on top, drop the whole thing in the PF. Then stick the glass with water under the piston and lower it, so that it's submerged, after that the basket gets filled with boiling water, glass comes out from under the piston, PF gets locked and it's ready to pull a shot.

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Thanks, @dsc!

I was visualising dismantling and assembling and hot water and red skin and swearing, but that doesn't seem to be very fiddly :) If you have a medium roast, would you skip the piston routine? And a darker roast with no pre heating at all?

Btw: Would a longer pre infusion phase to some extent compensate for a slightly low temperature?

Edited by a_aa
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I've not really done many experiments, at first I was assuming that just preheating the basket would be enough, but the sad reality is that it's not. The basket hasn't got a lot of mass and so doesn't retain a lot of heat, it's warm to the touch after dose prep, you could say that it's almost pointless heating it up in the first place. Piston on the other hand isn't light or thin, so it makes sense to heat it up imho, but it's kind of a bitch to get to (it only sticks out half an inch when lowered).

Paul Pratt recently said on his IG account that he doesn't bother with any heat ups and using dark roasts, finds it fine.

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Thanks again, @dsc!

The Robot is still on top of my shortlist, but that position is a little less clear now. But I have to confess; for me, part of the joy with any equipment is finding the tricks and mods to take it further towards some kind of optimum :) No challenges = boring.

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I'm glad I didn't get the Robot, as the water boils at 97°C at the elevation we live at, so that might cause issues

Edited by Stanic
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I bought an additional pressurised basket and pull a dummy shot before the proper shot. I put the professional basket in a cup and heat it with boiling water before pulling the dummy shot then afterwards swap the pro basket into the PF and prepare the shot. The pressurised basket sticks on the piston when I release the PF ( has always done this - not intentional) but it serves to keep heat in the piston while preparing the shot. A simple twist removes it before loading the actual shot.

The dummy shot heats the piston better than anything else I've heard of people doing. It's very simple.

Paul Pratt has a video showing the increase in temperature before and after pulling successive shots.

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Thanks, @Step21!

I was considering to add an extra basket or two if I'd end up ordering a Robot  - but not any pressurized. Do you think a professional would do the pre-heat-job OK, with any kind of extra flow resistance in it (paper, cell foam, cheap coffee, crammed cotton, whatever)?

Edit: Or simply a disk with a gasket in it?

Edited by a_aa
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30 minutes ago, Stanic said:

I'm glad I didn't get the Robot, as the water boils at 97°C at the elevation we live at, so that might cause issues

I think you are trying hard to convince yourself :D :) 

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1 hour ago, a_aa said:

Thanks, @Step21!

I was considering to add an extra basket or two if I'd end up ordering a Robot  - but not any pressurized. Do you think a professional would do the pre-heat-job OK, with any kind of extra flow resistance in it (paper, cell foam, cheap coffee, crammed cotton, whatever)?

Edit: Or simply a disk with a gasket in it?

The pressurised is ideal because very little leaks out. I think possibly @mcrmfc uses or made a silicon bottom for a pro basket ?

I boil the kettle, stick an elastic band between the levers to hold them up, then fill the pressurised basket inside the PF, insert PF with a cup underneath and leave it while I grind ( I use a hausgrind hand grinder). Meanwhile the pressurised basket is heating in another cup. So there is a fair bit of heat transfer into the piston even before pulling the dummy shot.

I don't really use the pressurised basket for anything else but it didn't cost much and takes a lot of the hassle out of pre heating.

Most roasts I use are light medium for wont of a better description. Personally I think very light roasts are better for filter than espresso. But I have had success with pretty light roasts. Darker stuff needs no pre heat and is probably better without it.

I honestly find the Robot so easy to use and have done since day one.

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1 hour ago, a_aa said:

I think you are trying hard to convince yourself :D :) 

Nah mate I've got the Portaspresso so I've been through all the pre-heating stuff (nailed it atm) and I've got the MaraX coming next week hopefully, but I'll admit, I was thinking of getting the Robot for all the glowing reviews and great design by a reputable manufacturer.

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@Stanic: You gotta take the time to pre-heat anyways... :) But seriously, the ACS Minima and the Lelit Mara X, as well as the LaPavoni Europiccola have circulated in my speculation attic. But I've ended up with a goal of keeping it as simple and manual as possible without loosing the possibility of an outstanding cup. Now and then ;) 

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On 16/05/2020 at 20:59, a_aa said:

@Stanic: You gotta take the time to pre-heat anyways... :) But seriously, the ACS Minima and the Lelit Mara X, as well as the LaPavoni Europiccola have circulated in my speculation attic. But I've ended up with a goal of keeping it as simple and manual as possible without loosing the possibility of an outstanding cup. Now and then ;) 

I am in the exact same boat as you. Been debating the lapavoni, as I do make milk based drinks. now sort of 80% settled on the robot, and bought a bellman steamer for milk steaming. 

Just waiting for the germany websites to have them back in stock now. Hopefully this will last me longer than my sage DTP before I get another upgrade

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I am in the exact same boat as you. Been debating the lapavoni, as I do make milk based drinks. now sort of 80% settled on the robot, and bought a bellman steamer for milk steaming. 
Just waiting for the germany websites to have them back in stock now. Hopefully this will last me longer than my sage DTP before I get another upgrade

I have a La Pavoni and a a Niche. I like milk based drinks in the morning. Like you, I though of the Robot + Bellman.

Then I watched James Hoffman’s video of milk frothing devices... so decided to stick to the La Pav.

How are you finding the bellman?

Was thinking of this...

Dualit CN452 Cino Milk Steamer https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B017U8TIFW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_V.UXEbSQ14S9
But at that price (£235) might as well stick with the La Pav as a steamer only.... if I ever go into the route of the a Robot.

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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3 minutes ago, MediumRoastSteam said:


I have a La Pavoni and a a Niche. I like milk based drinks in the morning. Like you, I though of the Robot + Bellman.

Then I watched James Hoffman’s video of milk frothing devices... so decided to stick to the La Pav.

How are you finding the bellman?

Was thinking of this...

Dualit CN452 Cino Milk Steamer https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B017U8TIFW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_V.UXEbSQ14S9
But at that price (£235) might as well stick with the La Pav as a steamer only.... emoji2369.pngif I ever go into the route of the a Robot.

waiting on my delivery. I'm already used to steaming from sage DTP, which is good enough, but by no means powerful. So I thought the bellman wouldnt be too bad, will let you know once I've got it

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21 hours ago, TheHToad said:

I am in the exact same boat as you. Been debating the lapavoni, as I do make milk based drinks. now sort of 80% settled on the robot, and bought a bellman steamer for milk steaming. 

Nice to know I'm not sailing solo :) I saw Hoffmanns review of the Bellman, and the review left me a little puzzled... Do Bellman put a product out in the market that can blow up your apartment, or was that possibility simply an awkward feeling in the reviewer?  Does it have a SRV? Or is built to withstand pressure more or less impossible to reach in a normal kitchen? Appreciate it a lot if you let us know how you get along with that mysterious thingy 👍

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26 minutes ago, a_aa said:

Nice to know I'm not sailing solo :) I saw Hoffmanns review of the Bellman, and the review left me a little puzzled... Do Bellman put a product out in the market that can blow up your apartment, or was that possibility simply an awkward feeling in the reviewer?  Does it have a SRV? Or is built to withstand pressure more or less impossible to reach in a normal kitchen? Appreciate it a lot if you let us know how you get along with that mysterious thingy 👍

I personally feel that it is as safe as things like the la pavoni, as long as the gaskets are good and you make sure you screw it on tight. Also, I jumped ship regarding robot. Found a vintage ZEROWATT Lever Espresso 707 to go with the bellman. Just couldnt resist it getting the collectable. No steamer, but electrical boiler, direct lever machine. Couldnt resist it. The robot will have to wait unfortunately. 

Had a look around reviews regarding the exploding part of bellman. I think I only came across 1. Most complaints are more regarding the steaming properties, but found a lot of people who also have success with it, so yea

Edited by TheHToad
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I personally feel that it is as safe as things like the la pavoni, as long as the gaskets are good and you make sure you screw it on tight. Also, I jumped ship regarding robot. Found a vintage ZEROWATT Lever Espresso 707 to go with the bellman. Just couldnt resist it getting the collectable. No steamer, but electrical boiler, direct lever machine. Couldnt resist it. The robot will have to wait unfortunately.  Had a look around reviews regarding the exploding part of bellman. I think I only came across 1. Most complaints are more regarding the steaming properties, but found a lot of people who also have success with it, so yea

 

The la Pavoni has two safety mechanisms: a pressurestat and a pressure safety valve (pops at 2 bar pressure I think).

 

Edit: looks like it does have a safety valve, on the handle.

 

 

 

When you receive it, could you please confirm them to us?

 

Maybe Mr. Hoffman hasn’t done his homework?

 

Edited again: it comes across as it’s a dangerous device as it has no gauges etc... but to his defence, he never says it does not have a safety valve. But yeah, scary nonetheless.

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Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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I'm now the undisputed  captain of this ship, and my grinder (Mr. Knock) allows me to boldly declare that fact. Sorry to see you abandon ship, but when I googled the ZEROWATT, I do get your WEAK resistance to its charms ...  ;) Let's see if Mr. Bellman will sign on here later, he may be a good petty officer?

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