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I would also say that you are more likely to see performance drop off a cliff, rather than a gradual decline. As yet your Peak seems to still be performing, see how it is once you have 30l through it....I would imagine the performance will drop off dramatically shortly after.

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4 hours ago, the_partisan said:

7. 114 - at this point I already start to notice a little bit of scale on my pour over kettle

This surprises me as I’ve brewed 100+ litres of water in my newish pour over kettle @ 150 TDS (about 110 mag and the rest calcium) and it’s still shiny like new. Tbh I wasn’t expecting scale at those levels in an unpressurised container.

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2 minutes ago, AJP80 said:

This surprises me as I’ve brewed 100+ litres of water in my newish pour over kettle @ 150 TDS (about 110 mag and the rest calcium) and it’s still shiny like new. Tbh I wasn’t expecting scale at those levels in an unpressurised container.

Not sure how you know what TDS relates to....but hardness doesn't cause scale by itself. You might get no scale at 200mg/l hardness & alkalinity 30mg/l and some scale at 100mg/l & 50mg/l alkalinity.

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Hi Rob, yes I should have said, it’s home brew. So I add about 1.2 grams of epsom salts and 0.3 grams of Calcium Citrate to 4l of Osmio Zero RO water. General hardness is about 150 (minimum) unless I’ve messed up my maths. Alkalinity, I have no Idea (less than 50? I forget. Perhaps that was with bicarbonate instead of citrate. I have no idea how you calculate the alkalinity effect of citrate). I didn’t think alkalinity affected scaling beyond the weight of ions added with the carbonate (na)/ citrate (ca), but I’ve probably misunderstood your comment/ the science (the carbonate has to come from somewhere!).

What I think you’re saying is that you can get scale with a general hardness of 100mg/l or less even at temperatures at or below boiling. In which case I need to rethink my “no scale” home brew for my Sage brewer (which is affected by scales Very quickly).

Edited by AJP80
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1 hour ago, AJP80 said:

Hi Rob, yes I should have said, it’s home brew. So I add about 1.2 grams of epsom salts and 0.3 grams of Calcium Citrate to 4l of Osmio Zero RO water. General hardness is about 150 (minimum) unless I’ve messed up my maths. Alkalinity, I have no Idea (less than 50? I forget. Perhaps that was with bicarbonate instead of citrate. I have no idea how you calculate the alkalinity effect of citrate). I didn’t think alkalinity affected scaling beyond the weight of ions added with the carbonate (na)/ citrate (ca), but I’ve probably misunderstood your comment/ the science (the carbonate has to come from somewhere!).

What I think you’re saying is that you can get scale with a general hardness of 100mg/l or less even at temperatures at or below boiling. In which case I need to rethink my “no scale” home brew for my Sage brewer (which is affected by scales Very quickly).

You need to know the alkalinity and general hardness to determine whether or not you'll see scale at various temperatures.

The Osmio already adds calcium and magnesium with ceramic balls doesn't it? Or can you run it without those filters in place? I'm not sure what else is added (I've probably been told at some point). Most people bump alkalinity up with bicarbonates of some kind. 

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Hi Rob - yes the Osmio adds a little calcium and magnesium, although with a full tank inputting at a TDS of 280, I get just over a litre of output in the internal tank at a TDS of 8, so I suspect my mineralisation cartridge is spent. I don’t know what impact the RO process has on alkalinity but I suspect my starting alkalinity is half the general hardness, so about 4. I find I prefer the taste of brews made with citrate over bicarbonate - perhaps that’s why I don’t see any scale. Downside of citrate is (I believe) it goes off quite quickly - in this weather my gallon of brew water starts to smell after two days and  this is not something I’ve noticed using bicarbonate.

Anyway, I feel I have hijacked the thread a little so will back away now.

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I've turned my dial from 4 to 5 just to see what would happen. Had to grind quite a bit finer for espresso, I expected less of a gap. Conversely had to coarsen my Chemex grind up a bit. Body has changed but I'm not sure how to describe it. Flavours seem a bit more intense. I'm going to stick with it for a bit but I can see why a bit of bypass is needed.

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Central Scotland here so water is very soft. Tap water is 37ppm and filtered water is coming out at 24ppm (setting just below 2). I have put quite a lot of water through mine,  > 60l.

 

I ran some water through it on setting 4 and it came out 6ppm!

Also no smell of fish after a month of use.

 

However, I also have the bead issue. Didnt get a reply when I sent them an insta message...

Edited by Jimjam11
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On 29/06/2020 at 14:18, DavecUK said:

I would also say that you are more likely to see performance drop off a cliff, rather than a gradual decline. As yet your Peak seems to still be performing, see how it is once you have 30l through it....I would imagine the performance will drop off dramatically shortly after.

Reporting back so after about 1 month of usage (I haven't counted how much water I used but hey ho)

I set it at 4.2 originally, got 3 german degree KH and 5 GH

Tested again today KH is about 4.5 (1st test 4 drop just on the edge of colour change, 2nd took 5), GH is like 5-6

 

Might go up a bit to control the buffer at 50ppm ish

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On 10/07/2020 at 20:49, Jimjam11 said:

Central Scotland here so water is very soft. Tap water is 37ppm and filtered water is coming out at 24ppm (setting just below 2). I have put quite a lot of water through mine,  > 60l.

 

I ran some water through it on setting 4 and it came out 6ppm!

Also no smell of fish after a month of use.

 

However, I also have the bead issue. Didnt get a reply when I sent them an insta message...

ngl i have considered moving to scotland because of the water

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I have been tracking the "non-fishy" filter a bit more now, and this is how it looks:

  1. Flush
  2. 122
  3. 115
  4. 67
  5. 80
  6. 112
  7. 114 - start seeing scale in kettle
  8. 115
  9. 103
  10. 132
  11. 112
  12. 145
  13. 98
  14. 122
  15. 160
  16. 233
  17. 262

Each fill is about 1,2L, and ignoring the 1st one, that's <20L before I started to get quite high TDS reading, which works about £0.6/L, about 3x more expensive than bottled water. Numbers are not super consistent, not sure if it was due to some temperature variation, or just in general how fast water was going through, but at least it gives some general trends.

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I've been getting fairly mixed results as well although I only check it every X fills:

After 15L: tds 144ppm ph 7.6

After 26L: tds 162ppm ph 6.9

After 32L: tds 138ppm ph 6.4

After 40L: tds 122ppm ph 6.4

No idea why suddenly tds started dropping. I can also see some resin beads in the bottom of the filter holder and get a nasty "wet mop" smell from the filter compartment. Taste wise it's been a mixed bag, early on brews were nice but I have a feeling that now it's gone worse.

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So fish smell is back on my filter which has seen 40 refills. Also still have resin beads in the bottom of the filter holder.

Just for a test I ordered a two pack of filters, almost £29 delivered :0 think this might be my last filter order, considering I get around 50L only from each.

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I need a water filter as I'm moving back to London today - back to the land of hard water which is quite different to Yorkshire.

Looking at hopefully getting an Osmio Zero soon but need a water jug quite quickly as I'm picking up an espresso machine on Sunday.

I was considering the Peak water jug but seeing all the negative reviews has put me off. Also surprised to hear that James Hoffman has pulled his YouTube video that compared the Peak to a Brita filter due to some kind of conflict.

Should I just pick up a Brita water filter for the near future to get by and forget about the Peak?

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I *think* I have a ZeroWater jug that you can have if you can collect from Golders Green area (although it’ll only save you a tenner or so because most of the cost is in the cartridges). Cartridges are expensive but can be picked up from Amazon and one should last you for 40 litres or so (enough for espresso machine use until an Osmio arrives). As the name suggests, it’ll remove everything from the water, so you’ll have the faff of remineralising, before suffering the same fate as Peake Water (fish smell and resin balls) after about 40l.

let me know if you are interested and I’ll check if we still have it.

Andy

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On 31/07/2020 at 14:41, AJP80 said:

I *think* I have a ZeroWater jug that you can have if you can collect from Golders Green area (although it’ll only save you a tenner or so because most of the cost is in the cartridges). Cartridges are expensive but can be picked up from Amazon and one should last you for 40 litres or so (enough for espresso machine use until an Osmio arrives). As the name suggests, it’ll remove everything from the water, so you’ll have the faff of remineralising, before suffering the same fate as Peake Water (fish smell and resin balls) after about 40l.

let me know if you are interested and I’ll check if we still have it.

Andy

Thanks for the offer.

I've just picked up a Brita filter as we needed one quite quickly for drinking water in the new flat.

Hopefully this will do until I get an Osmio Zero!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I also again started seeing something like sand in my kettle after a while. I sent them a mail while ago but no response. To me this seems like a really poor quality product that doesn't work like intended at all and should have never been released in this state. Back to using bottled water for now and looking to get a Claris Prime filter once my new kitchen is here. Only good thing to come out of this maybe that it will motivate a company like BWT or Brita to make a filter with a coffee-brewing focus.

Edited by the_partisan
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The latest comment on the kickstarter and reply are interesting. "margin of error" on the test strips, with people reading them low? I was very surprised at the result mine gave me as we have very hard water. Just whacked it back up to 5 from 4 again based on that.  

With that said I am pleased with the taste and mouthfeel improvements. Another 4 filters arrived just over a week ago so 4 more to come. I also sent 2 off to be recycled, a bit of faff inputting information into the website for the label and further faff as the self checkout in the post office wouldn't scan the barcode and made me type it all in including the address. All I wanted was to print the label and chuck it in a postbox (If you use the box as suggested it's too big). 

 

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I have a Peak sat here doing nothing and the amount of water I use the Osmio works out better for me and cheaper in the long run. And other crap, what part did I say it was better in my reply can't actually see it can you!!!!!

Edited by Jony
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5 minutes ago, dsc said:

How is Osmio which produces water with 25ppm TDS better than Peak which can be used straight away without adding bicarb or some other crap?

Osmio/RO or Distillation is precise, repeatable and more economic? Peak seems variable from one fill to the next (sometimes significantly according to Partisan's data). You show yourself a increase in performance before a decline. Not sure how the reported TDS variance translates to an alkalinity and hardness variance.

Does the Peak filter out the "crap" like Chlorine, Chloride, Sulphate, Sodium, Fluoride, Nitrate, and other impurities?

 

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I ended up with a fairly early production run Peak (mine was delivered early May or thereabouts) but it sat in a box. Unboxed it a month or two ago and it had a dodgy filter - leaking plastic balls into the jug in pretty large quantities, and didn't really fit. Peak swapped it out immediately and the new filter arrived one or two days later. Then things got busy, and I only tried it for the first time a few days ago. Filter seems fine but taste is not right - clear but dull, I'd say, so I'm not sure it's on the right setting (hot flavoured dishwater would be one description).

I've mostly avoided water chemistry to date, and started using volvic years ago on @MWJB 's "if you just want a single bottle then" recommendation alongside a plumbed-in BWT filter. I'm also jamming volvic in the machine on the basis that it doesn't scale too much.

But this Peak jug has thrown me a bit - it's probably time I looked into this properly, but it looks like Hendon's book Water for Coffee is out of print? So I guess a couple of questions:-

- Is there a neat summary of the relevant chemistry other than in Water for Coffee (e.g., a review paper, particularly comprehensive blog article etc)?

- The Peak jug seems to work using total alkalinity, is there a recommended way of testing that at home? Not sure how accurate the test strips are

I might leave the jug on the setting it's currently on and play with grind a bit, but so far it seems to have just added a(nother) moving target into my brewing

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