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RoyH

Single dosing with Robur

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Hi Folks

 

Who else is single dosing with a Robur?

 

I have an Anfim S450 (Aussie developed version of the Camaino Super Barista) with 2 fans on the back and 450 RPM speed. But also recently picked up a good doser Robur ( I prefer dosers for better distribution and minimal clumping). It is the auger version and has been producing some remarkable shots and consistently so. Removed the auto-fill flap of course.

 

Who else is single dosing with Robur and are you happy with the result?

Edited by RoyH

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Whats the retention like dose to dose?

 

Using the method of small brush in chute and bumping the grinder on several times I have been getting retention of either 0.1 grams or nil.

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Using the method of small brush in chute and bumping the grinder on several times I have been getting retention of either 0.1 grams or nil.
So you put 18g in and get 18 g out ?

I am sceptical given the burrs size of the Robur that it's the same 18g each time.


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

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So you put 18g in and get 18 g out ?

I am sceptical given the burrs size of the Robur that it's the same 18g each time.

 

He is talking about "dose consistency" and 0.1g is surprisingly good, better than claimed for a Lynn Webber EG1, so he is doing well

You are talking about "exchange" and I agree, it's quite possible a considerable portion of that is coffee from the previous grind.

 

The initial question you asked him was about "retention", which for me is; after 10 or so shots using his normal routine opening up the grinder and seeing just how much coffee he can get out from the grind chamber, under the burrs, on the burrs in the chute and then weighing it all.

I'm not calling you out on this at all, because I understand completely what you are saying, it's just a useful example of how we might want to start defining things. I am hoping we all get to talk about grinders in a slightly different way eventually....it will be especially helpful to those new to coffee


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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He is talking about "dose consistency" and 0.1g is surprisingly good, better than claimed for a Lynn Webber EG1, so he is doing well

You are talking about "exchange" and I agree, it's quite possible a considerable portion of that is coffee from the previous grind.

 

The initial question you asked him was about "retention", which for me is; after 10 or so shots using his normal routine opening up the grinder and seeing just how much coffee he can get out from the grind chamber, under the burrs, on the burrs in the chute and then weighing it all.

I'm not calling you out on this at all, because I understand completely what you are saying, it's just a useful example of how we might want to start defining things. I am hoping we all get to talk about grinders in a slightly different way eventually....it will be especially helpful to those new to coffee

Yeah fair enough, it's hard with these threads and the terminology used.

I get a robur will have alot under the hood. I also think that it's unlikely the same 18g is going in and coming out after all the nooks and crannies have been filled . Some of it I suspect is getting stuck in the shoot etc.

If the Op is happy all good. TO his original question I don't see lot of Robur's being used on these forums, add to that a doser and you are not likely to get any feedback from other owners. Roburs are big ugly grinders that take alot of counter space up and hold alot of coffee.

There are smaller easier to manage grinders around for the kitchen nowadays .

The OP may be in a a group of one that uses em on here :).


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

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Yeah fair enough, it's hard with these threads and the terminology used.

I get a robur will have alot under the hood. I also think that it's unlikely the same 18g is going in and coming out after all the nooks and crannies have been filled . Some of it I suspect is getting stuck in the shoot etc.

If the Op is happy all good. TO his original question I don't see lot of Robur's being used on these forums, add to that a doser and you are not likely to get any feedback from other owners. Roburs are big ugly grinders that take alot of counter space up and hold alot of coffee.

There are smaller easier to manage grinders around for the kitchen nowadays .

The OP may be in a a group of one that uses em on here :).

 

100% agree, I am at the moment making a post I will ask to become a sticky. It's about time some reality was served the way of the newcomers. As experienced users we all instinctively understand what's going on, but for new people it must be so confusing. This then leads to someone having shot inconsistency or not great shots for years until they realise why. Or as some do spending 100-150g to try to dial in their grinder.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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So you put 18g in and get 18 g out ?

I am sceptical given the burrs size of the Robur that it's the same 18g each time.

 

I put 22 grams in and 22 grams comes out. There may be some minor mixing of old and new in the small space under the bottom burr set.

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I put 22 grams in and 22 grams comes out. There may be some minor mixing of old and new in the small space under the bottom burr set.

 

It sounds like your doing better than these guys

 

https://lynweber.com/products/eg-1/features/low-retention/

 

However, you might want to look at the grinder design and think about it all more carefully.....terms like "there may be" possibly need to be replaced with I measured it, this is how I measured it, this is how I did the tests and my scales accuracy is to .0 .00 etc.. decimal points. Until then I am also skeptical.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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100% agree, I am at the moment making a post I will ask to become a sticky. It's about time some reality was served the way of the newcomers. As experienced users we all instinctively understand what's going on, but for new people it must be so confusing. This then leads to someone having shot inconsistency or not great shots for years until they realise why. Or as some do spending 100-150g to try to dial in their grinder.

 

Gents- I’ve used many grinders over the years. I’ve used Roburs in the past with the static screen still in place, and purging between shots, and fully agree 100 grams (or even 200 grams) could easily be wasted dialling one in. I now have the auto-fill flap and switch gone, static screen gone, and sweep out the chute each time, several times with a small paint brush and bumps of the on switch between sweeps. I can see right up the chute into the burr chamber and do so each shot, so I can confirm there are NIL grounds left in the chute. There may be some grounds still inside the burr chamber, acknowledged, however judging by shot consistency and taste (changing beans types often between shots) I believe any mixing of old and new is negligible.

 

PS- my machine is a MyWay Pompei so I’m not making newbie errors

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100% agree, I am at the moment making a post I will ask to become a sticky. It's about time some reality was served the way of the newcomers. As experienced users we all instinctively understand what's going on, but for new people it must be so confusing. This then leads to someone having shot inconsistency or not great shots for years until they realise why. Or as some do spending 100-150g to try to dial in their grinder.

 

Gents- I’ve used many grinders over the years. I’ve used Roburs in the past with the static screen still in place, and purging between shots, and fully agree 100 grams (or even 200 grams) could easily be wasted dialling one in. I now have the auto-fill flap and switch gone, static screen gone, and sweep out the chute each time, several times with a small paint brush and bumps of the on switch between sweeps. I can see right up the chute into the burr chamber and do so each shot, so I can confirm there are NIL grounds left in the chute. There may be some grounds still inside the burr chamber, acknowledged, however judging by shot consistency and taste (changing beans types often between shots) I believe any mixing of old and new is negligible.

 

PS- my machine is a MyWay Pompei so I’m not making newbie errors

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Posting it twice doesn't make it more convincing ;)


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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PS- I wasn’t inviting a retention debate. If it makes people happy I’ll say there is 0.2 grams of retention each time. Still producing killer shots, and back to my original question, who else is single doing with Robur?

 

PSS- I’m not concerned with looks- I have a dedicated coffee bar separate from the kitchen.

 

Thanks guys- appreciate the feedback

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PS- I wasn’t inviting a retention debate. If it makes people happy I’ll say there is 0.2 grams of retention each time. Still producing killer shots, and back to my original question, who else is single doing with Robur?

 

PSS- I’m not concerned with looks- I have a dedicated coffee bar separate from the kitchen.

 

Thanks guys- appreciate the feedback

 

No worries, I guess you asked if anyone else was single dosing a Robur. I posted to give you some insight into why you may nit get many replies.

Is yours a one phase or three phase grinder btw?


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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Posting it twice doesn't make it more convincing ;)

 

Damn.......there goes that strategy (aka fat fingers syndrome)......

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Take your burrs out, carefully and see how many grams are trapped both in and beneath....it is not a lecture, but flat burrs use a high spin speed with centrifugal force to throw the coffee out whereas conicals usually spin a lot slower and use gravity, meaning unless you introduce some sort of puffer system to blow air through the dosing system, burrs and exit chute then a large amount typically becomes retained. this often then mixes in with fresh coffee as it is introduced, rather than say 20 grams retained being replaced by the next 20 grams.....be interested in your findings though......one question, if you can lose 100 to 200 grams per dialling in why is that......one possible answer is that the retention is so huge that when you make an adjustment to the grind setting, it is not until the shot after the next one that you taste the result?

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No worries, I guess you asked if anyone else was single dosing a Robur. I posted to give you some insight into why you may nit get many replies.

Is yours a one phase or three phase grinder btw?

 

Single phase

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Take your burrs out, carefully and see how many grams are trapped both in and beneath....it is not a lecture, but flat burrs use a high spin speed with centrifugal force to throw the coffee out whereas conicals usually spin a lot slower and use gravity, meaning unless you introduce some sort of puffer system to blow air through the dosing system, burrs and exit chute then a large amount typically becomes retained. this often then mixes in with fresh coffee as it is introduced, rather than say 20 grams retained being replaced by the next 20 grams.....be interested in your findings though......one question, if you can lose 100 to 200 grams per dialling in why is that......one possible answer is that the retention is so huge that when you make an adjustment to the grind setting, it is not until the shot after the next one that you taste the result?

 

yeah the 100 to 200 grams dialling in was years ago on an older Robur (non auger version) when I had the static screen still in place, and I wasnt single dosing. With single dosing I have taken the burrs out and there was negligible grounds in the chamber.

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I'll bet Lyn Webber is turning in his grinder....


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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I'll bet Lyn Webber is turning in his grinder....

 

Would love to do a blind taste test and see if the difference was actually discernible between 0.01grams retention and 0.2 grams (or 0.9%) retention.

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Would love to do a blind taste test and see if the difference was actually discernible between 0.01grams retention and 0.2 grams (or 0.9%) retention.

 

Sorry, can you expand on that? If the dose is constant to, say 1%, how does what does/doesn't make it into the PF affect taste (assuming good practice)?


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

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Sorry, can you expand on that? If the dose is constant to, say 1%, how does what does/doesn't make it into the PF affect taste (assuming good practice)?

 

the question is more- assuming the same quantity ends up in the PF each time (22 grams in my case) but in one case there is 0.01 grams of “old” grinds mixed with new grinds, and in another case there is say 0.2 grams of old with new, could anyone tell the difference in a blind taste test? (Hint- I think not)

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the question is more- assuming the same quantity ends up in the PF each time (22 grams in my case) but in one case there is 0.01 grams of “old” grinds mixed with new grinds, and in another case there is say 0.2 grams of old with new, could anyone tell the difference in a blind taste test? (Hint- I think not)

 

You're very likely right & safe on that score, but who would fund such a test & why? (Rhetorical).


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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You're very likely right & safe on that score, but who would fund such a test & why? (Rhetorical).

 

Not sure- seems like a waste of time and money to me, but others are convinced retention is such a big issue that they may want to prove it via a taste test?

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@RoyH

I still find your claims very hard to grasp. The only way to really substantiate them, would be a total strip down including the grinds in the case and around the motor, so that you have a virgin grinder, then start experimenting. I would be more than just pleasantly surprised if the first few shots gave you the results you say that you are getting now. Of course, that is a lot of effort and I doubt that you are going to do it, but hey ho!

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