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SILVIA out of stock - other ideas for a first decent machine?

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The Lelit seems to match the specs of a Silvia or Classic (with PID installed) that go for £150-300 on here.

In a more sleek, small, kitchen friendly and shiny iteration form (like a Classic then...), but has a slightly larger boiler (like a Silvia).

 

Edit: The fact that it's in the same price range as an Oscar 2 makes it easy. If you have 750 and plan to buy new, you owe it to yourself to (ideally) see them both make 2 cappuccinos back to back.

It is like comparing a communist-era Lada to a modern VW. The differences are not solely aesthetic but very much in how it works, what it can do and how it does it. Both will move, turn and stop - but the difference will be more than skin deep.

 

Yes we are planning on buying new (or poss ex-demo).

 

I agree that seeing them both working is important, and advice like this is exactly why I started the thread!

Seeing them might also make me think the size is not really such an issue.

 

If anyone is reading this and thinking "oh dear god no what a foolish mistake" then please tell me why...!

 

At the moment I need good reasons NOT to buy the Lelit.

 

Current considerations are:

 

1. Lelit Victoria - (Bella Barista speak very highly of LELIT, and the size is a big PLUS)

2. Quick Mill Silvano Evo - (display model otherwise unused)

3. NS OSCAR II - (new - add £90 for OPV*)

 

 

(* does it NEED the OPV?)

Edited by rdpx

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The Lelit machine that got the home barista world excited and put Lelit on the radar was the PL62 Mara.

It did something that has been done for decades (a HX / heat exchange machine) but make it smaller and cuter and more kitchen friendlier than anyone before.

Yours for £980-1100 in the UK.

By all accounts a good machine - competes with the Expobar Leva, Rocket Appartamento, Oscar 2 and many others.


Expobar Leva DB, Niche Zero, Torr 58.5mm, V60 & Aeropress. Dreams of an L1...

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I guess you should ask yourself - what do you drink? If it's just espressos then a single boiler may be fine for you. But if you drink more milk based drinks - a HX unit would serve you much better. As such, you're looking at the Oscar, really.


Nuova Simonelli Oscar II // Macap MXD //

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I guess you should ask yourself - what do you drink? If it's just espressos then a single boiler may be fine for you. But if you drink more milk based drinks - a HX unit would serve you much better. As such, you're looking at the Oscar, really.

 

Every morning we make ONE milk based drink, then another half an hour later.

 

At weekends we make TWO at a time.

 

Occasionally when we have friend over we may end up making four espressos....

 

I guess if we get a schmancy machine we may start making more coffee for people!!!

 

For thirteen years we have been heating milk using a stove-top frother contraption.

For thirteen years we have been using a Saeco pressurised PF machine (La Pav branded) that for the past two years has been fubar temp wise, but OH has been content with it.

 

I have been using Lavazza since about 1992. I guess I like the packet it brings me nice memories.

 

:)

 

I'm all over the Rocket, truth be told, but I know it is OVERKILL for us and that it is my inner-geek speaking.

 

I believe that we would probably be happy with the Lelit, but can see its limitations.

 

:confused:

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The Lelit machine that got the home barista world excited and put Lelit on the radar was the PL62 Mara.

 

Ooooh that's even narrower than the Victoria...

 

(Not as pretty as the Rocket though, eh?) and this is how it starts

 

"alice, alice, come back, it's only a kitten!!!"

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Every morning we make ONE milk based drink, then another half an hour later.

 

At weekends we make TWO at a time.

 

Occasionally when we have friend over we may end up making four espressos....

 

I guess if we get a schmancy machine we may start making more coffee for people!!!

 

For thirteen years we have been heating milk using a stove-top frother contraption.

For thirteen years we have been using a Saeco pressurised PF machine (La Pav branded) that for the past two years has been fubar temp wise, but OH has been content with it.

 

I have been using Lavazza since about 1992. I guess I like the packet it brings me nice memories.

 

:)

 

I'm all over the Rocket, truth be told, but I know it is OVERKILL for us and that it is my inner-geek speaking.

 

I believe that we would probably be happy with the Lelit, but can see its limitations.

 

:confused:

 

So, seeing the limitations of a single boiler machine (lots of waiting around), what's keeping you from the Oscar? Looks? Size? And have you looked or thought about grinders? (that will equally dictate your overall budget)


Nuova Simonelli Oscar II // Macap MXD //

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There is also the Expobar Office Pulsar - narrower and cheaper than most HX machines.

 

Its looks...i imagine one would either love or hate them.

 

I quiet like its utilitarian/function-over-form approach, indeed, i prefer it to the Oscar 2.

But certainly not more than an E61 machine with lots of polished SS, knobs, gauges, LEDs and spouts.

Horses for courses :)


Expobar Leva DB, Niche Zero, Torr 58.5mm, V60 & Aeropress. Dreams of an L1...

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get a pav europiccola - job done:D


keep calm and grind flat

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get a pav europiccola - job done:D

 

I would love one.

But my partner would end up in a puddle of tears and coffee.

We have to know our limitations.

;)

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I have read through all this thread and for me the answer is screaming Fracino Piccino. I had one of these for a while and I only changed as I need a more commercial set up due to the needs of the business. They are rock solid machines, they can steam and brew at the same time and the support from Fracino is great! They also suit your requirement for a small foot print. They are great to look at too. This an a K3 Touch or a Mignon is a quality set up.

 

This is a personal thing as I like milk drinks also but when you get up to the 650 range I would really be wanting a dual boiler. Single boiler for that money seems expensive when you could PID a used Gaggia Classic and get similar performance for half that.

 

I have read the talk of temperature stability but I can honestly say I never had any issues with it.

 

You can pick them up from Nisbets for £614 currently.

 

Good luck!

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Definitely go and see with an open mind.

 

I have to say I want to be the one to say don’t buy THAT lelit. Definitely look at the Mara and some of this other options, but at that price those other two options will be superior and there really isn’t much difference in size.

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Good call on the Fracino. Didn't realise it was reasonably small.

MyEspresso also have their own looking version of it, ex-demo, for 500

The Profitec 300 is similar but with a PID...and double the price.


Expobar Leva DB, Niche Zero, Torr 58.5mm, V60 & Aeropress. Dreams of an L1...

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BB have an ex-demo prof 300 at an excellent price and I was very pleasantly surprised at the small size - seemed a very good option

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Have you seen the recent thread?

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=6813&share_tid=42710&share_pid=567050&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcoffeeforums%2Eco%2Euk%2Fshowpost%2Ephp%3Fp%3D567050&share_type=t

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Dead link, but i assume one of these - new guy with new Profitec 300?

 

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?42710&p=567050#post567050

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?42643&p=565962#post565962

 

Really smart looking machine - and a nice discount at BB.


Expobar Leva DB, Niche Zero, Torr 58.5mm, V60 & Aeropress. Dreams of an L1...

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Fracino Piccino.. A double boiler for £614??

Where's the catch?

 

 

The Profitec 300 also looks nice for £900...

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Lol - the choice is getting harder rather than easier, eh? :)

 

It is cheap for a DB. The cheapest ones (depending on what degree of discount you can find) are the Piccino, the Profitec and the Sage Dual Boiler.

 

Downsides?

 

1) They all have quiet small boilers - but that really shouldn't affect most 'normal' people - we're not a cafe.

2) The Piccino has no brain/PID. How much that affects the temperature i don't know. Never owned one.

3) The Sage is loved on here - but plastic and nobody would buy one without a 3 year warrenty - unless you were a huge Heston fan-boy ;-)

4) The Profitec...i dunno...seems pretty damn nice


Expobar Leva DB, Niche Zero, Torr 58.5mm, V60 & Aeropress. Dreams of an L1...

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Well I feel I am learning, even if I had been hoping for a quick consensus answer!

 

We are trying to get our heads round whether we are really up for spending over a grand...

 

We quite like the Lelit Mara!

 

I might look at the Profi300 properly tomorrow!

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That covers it above really. Only thing to add is that small boilers on the entry level double boiler machines needs to be put in context: the piccino has two 300ml boilers the lelit single boiler has one 300ml boiler. So nothing to worry about.

 

As for the Profitec. Looks awesome but unless I am looking at the wrong machine it is £1400? That needs to be one hell of a mark down on the display model to bring it in budget.

 

Don't forget the grinder in all the excitement of buying a machine either. Just as, if not more important at this price point!

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Ask B.B. the price on their ex-demo Prof300. I am sure it was well south of £1k as it struck me as being a bargain. I wasn’t concentrating on it tho so might be misremembering.

 

Definitely no consensus on the best way to spend £1k, which is one of the nice and rubbish things about espresso

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£900, from memory, with 12 months cover.

 

Love this way this has crept up from Silvia replacements to sensible 'machine-for-life' recommendations.

I dare say Mr. Monolith Londinium is looking down at me chuckling as we speak.

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Expobar Leva DB, Niche Zero, Torr 58.5mm, V60 & Aeropress. Dreams of an L1...

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Correct me if i'm wrong here, but doesn't the Fracino Piccino need to be sent away to be descaled? (as in, you can't do it yourself..). No HX and no PID means solid thermal stability is surely more of a pipe dream on the Piccino (and lower steam power).

 

Has the Cherub been considered too?


Nuova Simonelli Oscar II // Macap MXD //

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I have just seen a Nuova Simonelli Musica at the famous auction site. It has done 30 shots in total from new. It looks like a very good deal subject of bidding success.


Nothing succeeds as planned.

 

Nuova Simonelli Apia I 1 gr, San Remo 1 gr., Bezzera BZ35e, Fracino Heavenly, Saeco Via Veneto Combi de Luxe, Mythos Plus Nuova Simonelli, Anfim Super Lusso, Cunill Space, Gene Cafe

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The Piccino does need to be returned for descaling yes.......however if you use the right water you virtually needn't worry about this. Even if you did factor in a couple of descales it is still a bargain.

 

Re Steaming power. Yes it wont be as powerful as a 3 litre HX but...... the OP was originally looking at the Silvia and the Lelit. The Fracino easily surpasses the Silvia in steam power (I've owned both). For the average home user I think the Fracino has plenty of power in reserve.

 

Personally as you suggest the Cherub might have been the way to go but I think the OP wants to keep the footprint as small as possible.

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Personally as you suggest the Cherub might have been the way to go but I think the OP wants to keep the footprint as small as possible.

 

The footprint is indeed important.

I want the best compromise between small machine and best coffee.

The Profitec 300 is, from what I can tell, just too big.

 

(The Fracino Cherub is also c£400 on top of the Piccino)

 

I like the Lelit Mara.

But, as we started this off thinking we were going to spend perhaps £700 on a Silvia/Mignon and that seems to have escalated north of £1000 we are thinking about it!

 

Annoyingly Nisbets don't keep the FP in store so I can't go along and see what it looks like...

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