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Seasoning new burrs

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I was expecting to find loads of threads on this but either my searching is rubbish or there aren't many threads.

 

I'm hopefully getting new burrs sometime next week. I'm sure i've read about using stale beans or rice to season (or get any manufacturing residue from) new burrs, but how much are we talking about? I'm happy putting a Kg of rice through (finally using the santos at design volumes!) but is that enough? I'm assuming the burrs are CNC cut so should be pretty clean/swarf free anyway.


Sage DTP | Santos #4

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Rice is not something many recommend on here. Better off asking your normal bean supplier for some beans fit for the purpose. Start off with the burrs open and get progressively tighter as you progress. Anything above 2 to 3 kilos will help but I would suggest that amount as a minimum

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Wow...

 

Need to find somewhere local or postage will be horrendous


Sage DTP | Santos #4

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Or source the cheapest supermarket beans, something like 6£ a kilo


The peculiarity of espresso beverage is the simultaneous presence of three dispersed phases coexisting within a matrix, namely a concentrated solution of salts, acids, sugars, caffeine and many other hydrophilic substances. These phases are: an emulsion of oil droplets, a suspension of solid particles and an effervescence of gas bubbles, which evolves into a foam.

MildredM's towels, joey24dirt's tamper, Norvin's dosing ring, Portaspresso Rossa PG Air and HC-P, Kinu M68, Feld47 travel, Aergrind, Bellman steamer, IMS baskets, Hario Syphon TC3, Java Maestro dripper, Chemex, French press, Gnali & Zani moka pot, Bonavita kettle & scales, BWT Bestmax Premium

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That sounds like an option... Aldi/Lidl might be the place for me or Costco!


Sage DTP | Santos #4

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I'm assuming the burrs are CNC cut so should be pretty clean/swarf free anyway.

I think you are right, few hundred grams of cheap beans should be enough.

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I think you are right, few hundred grams of cheap beans should be enough.

Swop hundred for thousand and you will be about right!

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some pics of burrs before seasoning, I've found on web; the recommended amount of beans is usually 1% of burrs' life (5 kg for non-coated, 25-30 kg for TiN coated etc.) - don't ask me why :)

Screen Shot 2018-01-28 at 19.02.39.jpg

Screen Shot 2018-01-28 at 19.02.35.jpg


The peculiarity of espresso beverage is the simultaneous presence of three dispersed phases coexisting within a matrix, namely a concentrated solution of salts, acids, sugars, caffeine and many other hydrophilic substances. These phases are: an emulsion of oil droplets, a suspension of solid particles and an effervescence of gas bubbles, which evolves into a foam.

MildredM's towels, joey24dirt's tamper, Norvin's dosing ring, Portaspresso Rossa PG Air and HC-P, Kinu M68, Feld47 travel, Aergrind, Bellman steamer, IMS baskets, Hario Syphon TC3, Java Maestro dripper, Chemex, French press, Gnali & Zani moka pot, Bonavita kettle & scales, BWT Bestmax Premium

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I’ll get some pics when they arrive and in the meantime I’ll get to Costco or Aldi...


Sage DTP | Santos #4

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I actually did use rice on the Santos. about 1/4 turn from touching if I remember right. Bought a 5kg bag and ended up putting about 2kg through by just trickling it in with grinder running.

 

The major difference for me before and after was the huge reduction in static.

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You will need around 5kg to effectively season them, contact a local roastery and ask if them have any stale beans or beans from test roasts you could have, they will be very cheap or even free. When I got my new mazzer burrs I contacted a local roastery and managed to get 5kg of test beans completely free, so it can never hurt to ask.


Beans>Grinders>Machines

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You will need around 5kg to effectively season them, contact a local roastery and ask if them have any stale beans or beans from test roasts you could have, they will be very cheap or even free. When I got my new mazzer burrs I contacted a local roastery and managed to get 5kg of test beans completely free, so it can never hurt to ask.

 

We have 1 local roasters I know of....


Sage DTP | Santos #4

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local roasters contacted and not a day too soon as the new burrs are waiting at home for me. Unfortunately, I am not at home until thursday eve and may be out friday as well which means saturday before i can collect any beans... :(

 

i will post before and after pics so people can see the difference....


Sage DTP | Santos #4

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well they cant help as they roast to order... one other local-ish place i know of but otherwise, any online sellers who could help? and how much would 5kg of stale beans cost including p&p?


Sage DTP | Santos #4

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I bought about 5 kg of supermarket beans on sale to season the burrs on my grinder. In hindsight it probably wasn't quite enough as the grind consistency still took a while to settle down after I moved to 'proper' beans. But there comes a point where you just want to start drinking coffee so I put up with a bit of volatility for the first few weeks. Generally I think the advice is to season with what you are going to grind (e.g. coffee not rice) but I am sure I saw a guy from a grinder manufacturer on YouTube saying it didn't really matter.

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As with many things, there appear to be some contradictory views....

 

 

According to this only the dose (speed through the burrs) is affected, and seasoning makes that more consistent.... after the first few grams, the grind quality is up to spec....


Sage DTP | Santos #4

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As with many things, there appear to be some contradictory views....

 

 

According to this only the dose (speed through the burrs) is affected, and seasoning makes that more consistent.... after the first few grams, the grind quality is up to spec....

 

That seems to be true of any grinder. From totally clean my "awful" sage grinders take around 100g to settle down and if I change beans or settings something like 20 to 30g. It doesn't seem to be a good idea to use beans like dark roasted shiny due to a coating of oil monsooned from totally clean. I've ground several kg of those without cleaning the grinder and the net effect is the grind time for a dose goes up and up and then more or less remains constant.

 

Mention of manufacture residue is interesting. I swilled a brand new filter basket under the tap and noticed that water didn't run through the perforations. It did after a blank shot on the machine. After cleaning all traces of grinds off the burrs in a grinder I decided to give them 10 mins in puly cafe - that made them nice and shiny. My general impression of that is more shiny than when the grinder was new. The burrs must have been coated with a very thin coating of bean oil.

 

I have a brand new grinder arriving later this week. I have a feeling that I will just remove the burrs and clean them using normal degreasing etc techniques and see what happens. ;) Over time the new one will allow me to see if Sage grinders are "awful".

 

John

-


In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Profitec T64. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A, Ceado 37J. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

:pToo many filter baskets - maybe. For sale when I get round to it. Robur Elect, Ceado 37J, Ascaso i_1,Piccino

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As with many things, there appear to be some contradictory views....

 

 

According to this only the dose (speed through the burrs) is affected, and seasoning makes that more consistent.... after the first few grams, the grind quality is up to spec....

Dont believe everything you see on the Internet......

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Dont believe everything you see on the Internet......

Agreed, this is a guy from a grinder company and he wants you to believe everything is easy and especially with their product

You'll see for yourself...maybe, if you're lucky, you won't have to season them for too long, who knows

When I started with espresso I've got the Eureka Mignon and it was driving me crazy coz I dialed it in in the evening and the pours were completely different the next morning, very annoying until I figured out what was going on (thanks to the forums)

It was quite the same with the Kinu M68, but I was already prepared for it and now it is very stable and reliable


The peculiarity of espresso beverage is the simultaneous presence of three dispersed phases coexisting within a matrix, namely a concentrated solution of salts, acids, sugars, caffeine and many other hydrophilic substances. These phases are: an emulsion of oil droplets, a suspension of solid particles and an effervescence of gas bubbles, which evolves into a foam.

MildredM's towels, joey24dirt's tamper, Norvin's dosing ring, Portaspresso Rossa PG Air and HC-P, Kinu M68, Feld47 travel, Aergrind, Bellman steamer, IMS baskets, Hario Syphon TC3, Java Maestro dripper, Chemex, French press, Gnali & Zani moka pot, Bonavita kettle & scales, BWT Bestmax Premium

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Dont believe everything you see on the Internet......

 

From the point of view of some one who used to use the web for research purposes my feeling is that it can pay to bear that in mind where ever "facts" are read and who ever wrote them. It's sad really because many years ago the web could be a good reliable source of information.

 

;) So in this case as manufacturing residue was mentioned I will get rid of that first and if that doesn't work out try something else. The figures I quoted on my Sage grinders are correct - I've just bean through that from super clean. It took more beans from new but that was down to other aspects such as learning to use the machine. My Fracino needed another learning curve. The new grinder when it arrives will probably need another one.

 

John

-


In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Profitec T64. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A, Ceado 37J. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

:pToo many filter baskets - maybe. For sale when I get round to it. Robur Elect, Ceado 37J, Ascaso i_1,Piccino

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Dont believe everything you see on the Internet......

 

you may be right..... I did chuckle when I read your comment though, coming from some bloke on an internet forum :D

 

 

 

So the suggestion on the video is that is the friction of the burrs that changes during 'seasoning' (or 'running in'?) and that the rate of grinding is what is inconsistent initially - no issue for me as i single dose by weight.

 

If it is 'cleaning' the burrs post manufacture then in theory, anything will do, and several kilos sounds a lot to clean it. If it's knocking off rough edges, I'd expect more may be required... however if we assume here that burr cutting has moved on the way engine manufacture has and the running in period for engines is now hundreds of miles, not thousand, that seems unlikely.

 

So what is changing during seasoning? Since it coincides with me having no access to cheap beans, I'm happy to post updates and pictures with minimal seasoning so we can try and see what is going on. However, I don't drink huge quantities, so 5Kg will take me (5000g / 4 drinks/day / 18g/drink =) 138 days at our usual rate... (the good news is these burrs will probably see me out! (750Kg / 18g/drink = 41,000 double shots!!!! = 57 years drinking 2 a day)

 

if ive made a duff choice, I'll hold my hand up, admit it tastes crap and go and buy some bags.... and only me and my wife have to suffer. On the other hand, it might prove interesting and save people some time and effort.


Sage DTP | Santos #4

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you may be right..... I did chuckle when I read your comment though, coming from some bloke on an internet forum :D

 

:act-up:No one should take any notice what so ever on anything I post on the web. On the other hand ................

 

The video probably relates to a problem all grinders are likely to have to a certain extent - retention. Any that is caked in is semi permanent and until that aspect is stable the output wont be.

 

Seems that the burrs I am getting are rated for 300kg. Also for origin and decaf beans. Supermarket beans can be entirely different to those and there is a considerable range of fresh roasted anyway. 3kg = over 300 shots if I just use my usual bean and the single. If 3kg made a significant difference to the parts that grind I find it hard to believe that they can last for 300kg.

 

One video I have seen suggests that burrs usually take around a month to season but doesn't mention the usage.

 

John

-


In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Profitec T64. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A, Ceado 37J. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

:pToo many filter baskets - maybe. For sale when I get round to it. Robur Elect, Ceado 37J, Ascaso i_1,Piccino

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So this eve I fitted the new burrs... of course one of the old ones was a pig and one of the screws was a **** pig... but a few squirts of wd40 and some (out of character) patience sorted that

 

Old ones

 

5e86217a804716e195c503a064356124.jpg

 

894ed2584c5316bb159c4fde4f4276e1.jpg

 

Out

 

101c4a4d50e9367d58aa928d01071729.jpg

 

Side by sides

 

f8e8c92bac1e786440ee20e3bf9a96ee.jpg

 

45028cf1ff332a3d84469351e2eddff6.jpg

 

And new ones in

 

c9ab48cfa7ca210435feb6d242bc310b.jpg

 

A few hundred grams through

7e9cea07df525db7a21072269084fc8f.jpg

 

Here is my first effort post burrs

b66ac5e5d6ce245b40ae8e7120e817a7.jpg

 

I have a video... if I can work out how to upload it from my phone....


Sage DTP | Santos #4

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Just watched the video back and it’s a bit fast - prob the end of the run-through beans... so I’ll do one with the proper beans at the right setting

 

One thing I noticed when swapping the burrs was how much coffee was inside the grinder. Dose is very good - +/- 0.1-2g of what goes in - but it does build up a bit over time so i need to run a dose through after changing settings or beans to get a clean run - too impatient this eve and forgot

 

 

No taste of wd40 though so that’s good


Sage DTP | Santos #4

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