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Moka pot - a few questions


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5 hours ago, Catlady101 said:

So, the whole grinder thing went in a completely different direction...

An artist friend of mine has just finished somehting that is utterly awesome and so that is going to be delivered by pixies as they much prefer to give art than - well, " a bit of kitchen equipment" as one of them so wonderfully put it😅

So left to my own devices I completely moved away from the aergrind @Stu Beck, just becasue if something goes wrong, I would really like some help, and after falling down the video rabbit hole of @DavecUK (was watching your video from the steam thing, and then another and then came across the reiew you did of the JX series) combined with Amazon doint virtually £50 off the simple JX (not the pro) ...well I just bought one, we'll see if I can get a proper use of it, I am so new to all of this I might not get the best of it for a while, but I have so , so very much to learn, I think it will do me for a bit.

 

Thank-you for your help, as always, you are super helpful.

I have been thinking a lot about the grinder... I created a post and with everyone's opinion decided to either get the wilfa or a hand grinder.

After speaking with my missus we decided to go for a manual and also got scared with all the coments about aergrind so after checking and reading I decided to go for the JX as the comandante is almost double the price but I was thinking there could be a Black Friday discount? Is it worth to wait? Or shall I go while I can?

There are also good comments about the JS but it is more difficult to get as is mainly for Asian market.

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So, the whole grinder thing went in a completely different direction... An artist friend of mine has just finished somehting that is utterly awesome and so that is going to be delivered by pixies

@davhei One of the nice things about coffee is, there is so much and so varied an opinion. I used to make my mocha along the same lines as you, then all of a sudden Hoffman made it fashionable to

Dose in terms of caffeine will be the same as espresso, or drip...wherever you use 16g for that particular bean. Unless you're grinding way too coarse for espresso, 16:70g should be much weaker than a

5 hours ago, DavecUK said:

JX is effectively the same grinder as the JX Pro (just has the different adjuster bit on it), it has less fine adjustment, although I believe they recently added a few more adjustment points on the JX, at least that's what one of my subscribers said.

yeah, as far as I read, there was a black model with 24 and now it went to 30. JX-pro has 40 and a different system to adjust if I am not wrong..

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5 hours ago, Folinho said:

There are also good comments about the JS but it is more difficult to get as is mainly for Asian market

Ordering direct from the 1z website was straightforward if you like that model? Delivered by FedEx in about 1 week, around £20 in import tax and fees.

 

5 hours ago, Folinho said:

could be a Black Friday discount?

Maybe, but seeing as demand for home brewing equipment is so high this year I wouldn't be too hopeful of a bargain! Not too long to wait now...

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Last time I checked was "not available" in the website.. I read about sending and email to them but it is gonna be more tricky with the taxes when it gets here, plus I am a newbie on this, it's gonna be my first hand grinder and I think there will be more JX users to get help from... thanks anyways :)

I am gonna se around these days if I go for it or I wait till BF. @Catlady101, let us know when u get it and how it goes :) Enjoy it !

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17 hours ago, Folinho said:

I have been thinking a lot about the grinder... I created a post and with everyone's opinion decided to either get the wilfa or a hand grinder.

After speaking with my missus we decided to go for a manual and also got scared with all the coments about aergrind so after checking and reading I decided to go for the JX as the comandante is almost double the price but I was thinking there could be a Black Friday discount? Is it worth to wait? Or shall I go while I can?

There are also good comments about the JS but it is more difficult to get as is mainly for Asian market.

I had the same dilemma, I thought should I wait for black friday - it is only a few weeks away, but then when I went to look at the same one (jx, not pro) on other retailer sites it was £50 more than on Amazon, and well, I just went for it.

Apparently it is coming from America ( bought on amazon.co.uk but they are shipping from the US) and should be with me in two weeks from order, so that is pretty fast I think, and also if I have any problems ,with buying from Amazon I can always return it easily.

I will be looking at it in the sales, just because I would like to know if I made the right choice, and kicking myself if I did not, but have, in the past, noticed something I have on my wishlist, when in the sale, was the same price as when I had added it months before, it appears it had gotten more expensive just before the sale?

With the Aergrind, if Knock were offering proper support, I think that would have swung it for me, as then it is in the UK, and parts etc available easily as opposed to it coming (technically) from an Asian company with no presence in the UK, but I have read some reviews of the service from Knock for the aergrind, the feldgrind and the aerspeed, that suggests that their grinders are really well made, usually, but if you have a problem the company is rather pants at getting back to anyone let alone providing support, so that took it out of the running for me. That may or may not be the case but just the idea that I could be sitting there unable to use my wonderful hand machine simply becuse no one replied, put me off.

The timemore chestnut x is one I considered simply because it has really good reviews as far as functionality, and for me it is good looking, but again, the price is much higher. Timemore (or TiMo as I have seen the company called on some youtube videos) does sell through UK based companies - roasters and suppliers of coffee equipment, so that would provide a local team to offer help if needed. For me, for my abilities now, it was too expensive a buy, its abilities would be wasted on me right now, as I know nothing.

 

hope that helps give you an idea of my thought processes in choosing the izpress JX (not pro one)  for mokka pot brewing- I did not choose the pro one, as I am not looking to make espresso now, or in any near future ( but I would really like one of those 9bar stove tops - at some point in the future) and for me, my skills, and what I am doing with my coffee set up - the JX seems, on paper, to be the next step for me - will be interested how the settings on the JX compare to my little grinder I have now, and if I can get some consistency out of it, will probably need to practice and definitely adjust grind, water, and brew times😁

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I am really scared of waiting and becoming more expensive or out of stock but I think I am going to wait and if that goes wrong I can always delay a bit the purchase... or ending up buying another grinder.

Timemore G1? I thought about the slim to fit in the AP but I kinda like the idea of bigger and faster now.

With Knock, really like them and nearly bought them when I saw the 2nd minor with the discount but had the same concern and as the timemore, like JX's speed.

We can maybe talk in the future about our JX´s and moka recipes hehehhee :)

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@Folinho

 

Update:

 

There are 2 issues with buying from Amazon as I have done;

 

1: The price has gone up by £20ish so is  now £120, plus £6.00 prime shipping, Plus the import fee that amazon hold in case of import fees ( you get it back if not used, or if only partially used you get partial refund) of £21 - makes it about the same price as just buying it in the UK.

This may change back after black Friday but that leads me onto ..

2: I bought mine on the 14th from amazon UK, sold by amazon UK, fulfilled by Amazon global, delivered from Amazon in the USA. The delivery date set is between the 25th and 30th of November. 

I logged in just now to see the tracking and if it had cleared customs yet, and the tracking is saying it hasn't even been dispatched yet!

I got Amazon to call me ( you have to go through a multitude of steps and dropdowns that are not geared for this) and the helpful lady (love that they are taking calls at this hour) said that this is something amazon global needs to deal with but that they are not open 24/7 and that she would arrange a call back tomorrow.

Now, it may be that the dispatchers forgot to enter it as dispatched and therefore there is no tracking information, but it may be that they have a stock / shipping issue and that it really hasn't been dispatched a week after I paid for it. The Llady on the phone thouhgt it odd as she would have expected it to be dispatched on the next day - 15th - but until tomorrow - no clue.

SO...

I may well end upcancelling my order with Amazon after all and buying it in the UK at the higher price ( I paid £99 ish all in ), if they do indeed have stock / shipment issues.

 

I mention al lthis detail in case it is useful, it may be that you are fine with the faffle or it may be that this would drive you potty but thought I should let you know as you might be interested in one yourself and did not want to lead you downthe wrong path by initially siggesting amazon would be an easy option ( due to prime delivery and free returns)

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Thanks a lot for the update!

I have been regreting a bit lately cause as you said it is £20 more expensive and the shipping went from 6 to 12... but so sad to hear that is not as easy as we'd all expect through amazon.

I was waiting for BF and see how it was on amazon or get it either from aliexpress or 1zpresso website directly.. cause in the UK the cheapest I found it was £150

Hope tomorrow you get good news :)

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@ Folihno - it arrived!!! - I was going to  put pictures in the "What did thePostie bring you today" section, but it now says " this tpic is closed to further replies"?? just let me check it is not something I am doing ( error behind keyboard as my son calls it).

It was shipped Tuesday am US time, and got here about an hour ago.

I have yet to make any coffee with it - will update you then, am fiddling with setting right now😺

Edited by Catlady101
place I was going to post photos is closed
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9 minutes ago, Folinho said:

I will let you know when it arrives and how... 

yes please - it would be super helpful to compare the two side by side ( the process not hte grinder as hopefully they are identical) so other can see what might suit them best - and also for me as haveonly ever bought one thing from Aliexpress ( a set of lock picks) and it took 3 months and a credit card payment retraction to get the item - but that was years and years ago, and I keep seeing things there i would like and am too chicken to try again.

Thank-you

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Well, the only time I ordered from aliexpress with my friends we had problems as well (2010).. so I haven't ordered there ever ever but my sistes does quite regular so I asked her to proceed.

It will be send to the small city I am from, so that could make things slower comparing to send it to London..

With nowadays conversion rate and vat+taxes will be around 111Gbp, pretty much as it was on Amazon before. 

The other thing is the cat, I don't know if the one from aliexpress also comes with the optional cat hahahhahaa. Love the picture :D

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4 hours ago, Folinho said:

@Catlady101 How you doing with the new adquisition? As good as expected? 

I just saw it on Amazon and it is only available from another seller.. and it'd be 190 + 15 delivery...

I am having fun dialling in my new settings!

so - I have a spreadsheet, yes I am one of those, for all the grind settings and water volume ratio, water type, temperature of brewing, time of brewing etc that I made up using my old grinder.

Now I am having to change everything, because the new grinder has so many more settings, and , the best bit for me, is when it grinds, it grinds far more evenly than my little cheap one I had before. No more sifting, and rolling on paper towels to remove the chunky grinds and the fines!

I am only on coffee bean number 3 so far, as I am having to try out different grind settings, AND different brew settings, zbut so far I have not deviated too far from the recommendations on the card that came with it ( it says 1:18 - which is one full turn from "0" which in my case is 6, plus 9 clicks) -one coffee is that, one is 2 full turns and the third - I am not sure , I like it at 2 full turns and 1 click, but I tried going the other way and liked it also at 1:16 (so one full turn and 8 clicks), but it is a coffee that I had been struggling with before on my old grinder, so I have ordered some more of my most used coffee, and will experiment with that first and then go back to this Brazilian, which is driving me potty, I can feel there is more to the flavour, but am struggling to get those notes to come forward past the roast.

So - as you can see, getting a new grinder means brewing and drinking and tinkering a lot😁

 

I did try just one revolution - boy was that difficult to grind, and it was no good for me or the bean, over extracted right away - you could smell it as soon as it percolated through - yuch!

so - the finer you go, the tougher it is to grind - that is you need to put more welly into it.

Also - the grind, when I find one I like - takes a little longer than my cheapie grinder, but then I am getting all the beans ground exactly the same, not some right, some too big, and some too fine - goldilocks style😄

You will have so much fun when you get yours - just have plenty of beans on hand!

 

Also - don;t throw your old grinder away - compare and contrast as they say - I found it super helpful to brew what I used to , and hte new grind side by side to compare.

Edited by Catlady101
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  • 1 month later...

Hi everybody,

I recently changed my Bialetti Venus 10-cup that I’ve been using for the past ten years for an Alessi 9090 6-cup. Although I don’t see myself as a coffee aficionado it really got me thinking how to get the new process right for a nice balanced cup.

I use an induction hob and the coffee I used for experimenting was normal off the shelf filter ground dark roast (Zoega’s Skånerost - a Swedish blend).

After a lot of experimenting this is what I came up with, perhaps it can be of use for someone out there.

 

1 Fill base with cold water just to the level that the water touches the lower edge of the valve.

2 Fill funnel up to the edge with coffee. Tapping the side of the funnel as needed to smooth it out and avoid spilling. No tamping.

3 Put pot on induction hob with the lid open.

4 And here is the key procedure: Max setting on induction hob. When coffee starts to flow, wait 15 seconds after the bottom of the top tank has been covered with coffee, then turn off the induction hob. Leave the pot on the (turned off) hob until it no longer flows.

5 Gently stir the coffee in the pot with a small spoon to even out the layers.

Pour into cup and serve.

 

I was astonished that the execution of step 4 in particular made such a noticable difference.

Too short a time before turning off the heat produced a low bitterness cup but sour (under extracted?) as well as giving a lower temperature when drinking. The cup was decidedly small as well.

Too long before turning the heat off gave a less sour cup, good temperature in the beverage and a good volume but a distinct and unpleasant bitterness (burnt and over extracted?)

The final process gave in my opinion a balanced taste with little or no bitterness, good volume and a nice warm brew. In addition it was fairly simple, no pre-heated water, no adjusting of heat levels during brew, no chilling the pot under running water to stop the brewing process.

The trick is the timing of turning off the stove, which is only 1-2 minutes after turning it on, so really a fairly short time where you have to pay attention to the pot.

I can imagine the 15 seconds after the bottom is covered with coffee can vary depending on pot and stove, but having it as a starting point and experimenting with +/- 5 seconds a few times should allow you to find your own sweet spot.

I’m very happy with the results and would love to hear feedback from others.

Cheers

Edited by davhei
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@davhei

One of the nice things about coffee is, there is so much and so varied an opinion. I used to make my mocha along the same lines as you, then all of a sudden Hoffman made it fashionable to use boiling or hot water into the chamber so it came to temp much faster. Why? He said to reduce the amount of time the water spends in contact with the grinds, but surely that is what you want. By using hot water and a much gentler heat, open the lid, watch the coffee pour out and as soon as it gets to the point where it fizzles, take it off the heat and put the base under cold water tap in order to stop the brew process.

Now, this might be fine if you are a World Champion Barista, or do not have taste buds like mine, but in the cold light of day, does it make any difference whatsoever? In theory yes, but for me, it is consigned to the great big waste bin that cobntains all of the other coffee bollocks we talk about!

Edited by dfk41
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@dfk41

Fully agree!

So many opinions and often technical, almost engineer like reasoning behind hot or cold water, steam pressure, time and temperature through the coffee cake. Well, I did try lots of different approaches and although I can’t give a reason why this particular method worked for me it is really the end result that matters. To my humble tastes it is nice, balanced and steers clear of the too sour/bitter pitfalls.

I can certainly imagine several ways to reach a similar result, but to me it was a no-nonsense and relatively simple way to achieve a decent result. A fun learning process too.

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I've used Bialetti's for a few years now with no problems, but recently it has started to spurt (fnarr fnarr) straight away.

I use the hot water method, tbh my taste buds are shot so it makes no difference to the taste, just weird that it has started to happen.

Venus 6 cup version.

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1 hour ago, hubcap said:

I've used Bialetti's for a few years now with no problems, but recently it has started to spurt (fnarr fnarr) straight away.

I use the hot water method, tbh my taste buds are shot so it makes no difference to the taste, just weird that it has started to happen.

Venus 6 cup version.

Have you changed the gasket? Maybe it leaks pressure and doesn’t have the energy to properly push the coffee up?


I wonder if descaling would help? Maybe there is a build up of mineral deposits restricting the flow and causing strange effects?

Just thinking aloud.

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50 minutes ago, davhei said:

Have you changed the gasket? Maybe it leaks pressure and doesn’t have the energy to properly push the coffee up?


I wonder if descaling would help? Maybe there is a build up of mineral deposits restricting the flow and causing strange effects?

Just thinking aloud.

Hi Dav,

I have changed the gasket (for original) and I will check this again.

I use Osmio water so descaling is not an option.

Many thanks for your thoughts, appreciated.

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On 29/11/2017 at 11:11, MediumRoastSteam said:

So after 15 years or so I’ve decided to give the Moka pot a go again. I’ve read quite a bit about it, and how one should brew (using boiling water instead of cold, kill the brew process once it starts puffing by putting under the tap for a few seconds etc, etc). That’s all good.

 

I’m using a Bialetti Venus 4 cup.

 

- How coarse should the coffee be? Some say filter/drip coarse, some say just coarser than espresso. Could anyone give me a hint?

 

- How much is a “dose” (e.g: equivalent to double espresso 18g in, 36g out) in terms of cafeine? I ask that because the funnel/basket takes roughly 16g of ground coffee, but the overall beverage weight produced is around 70g, which I’m finding much “stronger” than a standard 1:2 ratio espresso of (18g in, 36g out).

 

- Would a 2cup moka be better to brew for 1 person?

 

Thanks in advance.

I use an alessi 3 pot.....I find it makes half a normal cup. I’ve used boiled water in the moka and cold....both ok....but I pour as soon as it is nearly ready to finish...not leaving it to rest in the moka.

I heat half a cup of  milk in the microwave for 1 min 40 to two mins then pour the moka into it.

I tried using steamed milk but it didn’t taste as nice for some reason.

I only put enough grinds into the container to lightly fill it level, don’t pack it down at all...I just level with my finger and knock off excess....just change grind size to see how it suits You.

I prefer a good moka with milk to a well done latte.

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13 minutes ago, Wuyang said:

I use an alessi 3 pot.....I find it makes half a normal cup. I’ve used boiled water in the moka and cold....both ok....but I pour as soon as it is nearly ready to finish...not leaving it to rest in the moka.

I heat half a cup of  milk in the microwave for 1 min 40 to two mins then pour the moka into it.

I tried using steamed milk but it didn’t taste as nice for some reason.

I only put enough grinds into the container to lightly fill it level, don’t pack it down at all...I just level with my finger and knock off excess....just change grind size to see how it suits You.

I prefer a good moka with milk to a well done latte.

Thanks. I've since sold this Moka Pot... Not my thing really. Note this post is from November 2017 👍

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Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

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