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Moka pot - a few questions


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Shouldn’t be an effort to tighten. Also the safety valve should open before the seal leaks. It’s important to make sure seal is clean and no grinds are on the rim of the boiler before you screw it shut. If yours is that much effort it must be time for a new seal ring.

 

I’ve never seen the compellingly argument for silicon. I think rubber is more dependable.

 

Also, check your grind. Moka requires a coarser grind than espresso. Otherwise you restrict the flow.

Espresso: Ceado E92 (modified for single dose); Vesuvius; VST baskets and refractometer.

Other: Aeropress, Sowden and Alessi Moka Pot; Mazzer Robur doser with Auber timer; Mazzer Mini E; Expobar Leva Dual Boiler

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So, the whole grinder thing went in a completely different direction... An artist friend of mine has just finished somehting that is utterly awesome and so that is going to be delivered by pixies

To obtain proper extraction one should fill filter basket full or close to it. That is why it's important to choose correct volume/size of your moka. Here are some italian tips https://caffetti

I've added an aeropress paper on top of the coffee, so between the upper part and the coffee, so no sediments go to the upper chamber. I was impressed with the result!

Shouldn’t be an effort to tighten. Also the safety valve should open before the seal leaks. It’s important to make sure seal is clean and no grinds are on the rim of the boiler before you screw it shut. If yours is that much effort it must be time for a new seal ring.

 

I’ve never seen the compellingly argument for silicon. I think rubber is more dependable.

 

Also, check your grind. Moka requires a coarser grind than espresso. Otherwise you restrict the flow.

 

Thanks. I think I know what’s going on. The Bialetti Venus is not ergonomic. Unlike the traditional design, the Venus is all round, cylindrical, so there’s nowhere to make a good grip, unlike the traditional model with a spout and an hexagonal shape.

 

If I use a silicone pad for instance, it’s much easier to tighten.

 

Also, the pot is brand new, and therefore the seal. If it’s not tighten enough however, pressure will leak from the seal and therefore there will be not enough pressure to actually push the water up.

 

Why would the safety valve open before the seal leaks if the seal between boiler and the upper part of the pot is not tight enough? Doesn’t make any sense.

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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Why would the safety valve open before the seal leaks if the seal between boiler and the upper part of the pot is not tight enough? Doesn’t make any sense.

 

That’s me not being clear. A correctly sealed pot shouldn’t leak before the safety valve opens.

Espresso: Ceado E92 (modified for single dose); Vesuvius; VST baskets and refractometer.

Other: Aeropress, Sowden and Alessi Moka Pot; Mazzer Robur doser with Auber timer; Mazzer Mini E; Expobar Leva Dual Boiler

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  • 3 months later...

I have the 6 cup Venus and don’t suffer from leaks and no need to over tighten it. Could be an issue with the pot.

Rocket R58 V2, Mazzer Royal ( Ti Burrs ), 6 Cup Chemex, Ceramic 02 V60, 6 Cup Venus Moka,  Aeropress, Bonavita Drip Scales & Temp Controlled Goose Neck Kettle, Feld 47

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Just about cracked the Moka now and producing a consistent sweet, lots a flavour with no bitterness cup of coffee.

 

I have the 6 cup Venus and here’s what I do for a mug of americano. 60/40 water /coffee, adjust to suit.

Grind is just less than espresso, what I would class fine. I use 18 grams

I boil water to 97’c, fill just under the valve. Drop basket in.

On our induction I set to 6, coffee start to come out within a minute. Drop to 5 once you see the coffee. Remove once it starts to bubble. Once you see the coffee the processs is complete with 30 seconds.

 

What causes the bitterness is high temps and over extraction. The above method is quick and simple.

Rocket R58 V2, Mazzer Royal ( Ti Burrs ), 6 Cup Chemex, Ceramic 02 V60, 6 Cup Venus Moka,  Aeropress, Bonavita Drip Scales & Temp Controlled Goose Neck Kettle, Feld 47

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  • 2 years later...

After going around in circles through the various types of machines, Pod, Filter, Bean to cup etc i decided to save some money and try the Moka Pot, after all , all those Italians can't be wrong !

i bought a   Moka Express Coffee Maker 270ml (6 Cup)   

This sounds like a very stupid question (and probably is) but i can't see a definitive answert anywhere..

Baring in mind it says its a 6 cup machine, i cant see that anywhere near enough coffee is produced to make 6 decent cups of coffee, probably more like two decent cups. So how much liquid should be used in a typical cup of coffee ?   Any advise very welcome.

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25 minutes ago, Brewtime said:

After going around in circles through the various types of machines, Pod, Filter, Bean to cup etc i decided to save some money and try the Moka Pot, after all , all those Italians can't be wrong !

i bought a   Moka Express Coffee Maker 270ml (6 Cup)   

This sounds like a very stupid question (and probably is) but i can't see a definitive answert anywhere..

Baring in mind it says its a 6 cup machine, i cant see that anywhere near enough coffee is produced to make 6 decent cups of coffee, probably more like two decent cups. So how much liquid should be used in a typical cup of coffee ?   Any advise very welcome.

Welcome to the forum.

I think it means 6 cup of espresso (single). So you are talking really 30ml per cup.

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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11 minutes ago, MediumRoastSteam said:

Welcome to the forum.

I think it means 6 cup of espresso (single). So you are talking really 30ml per cup.

wow, thanks for the quick response

 

So i should be able to get 6 single expressos, i just cant see how i could make 6 long drinks by adding milk, ike i say to be anywhere near strong enough i think i would only get two small mugs of coffee. Am i doing something wrong, or do i just like strong coffee ?

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wow, thanks for the quick response
 
So i should be able to get 6 single expressos, i just cant see how i could make 6 long drinks by adding milk, ike i say to be anywhere near strong enough i think i would only get two small mugs of coffee. Am i doing something wrong, or do i just like strong coffee ?

This is the thing: It’s not espresso. Do as you please. See how it works for you. Just ignore the 6 cup bit.

I do tend to find it’s quite a potent beverage though, very strong!

In my opinion, if you like with milk, just use 2/3s of it. If you like strong, go for the lot. As black coffee, good enough to share between to people.


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Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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11 hours ago, Brewtime said:

After going around in circles through the various types of machines, Pod, Filter, Bean to cup etc i decided to save some money and try the Moka Pot, after all , all those Italians can't be wrong !

i bought a   Moka Express Coffee Maker 270ml (6 Cup)   

This sounds like a very stupid question (and probably is) but i can't see a definitive answert anywhere..

Baring in mind it says its a 6 cup machine, i cant see that anywhere near enough coffee is produced to make 6 decent cups of coffee, probably more like two decent cups. So how much liquid should be used in a typical cup of coffee ?   Any advise very welcome.

We used a 6 cup Bialetti for years to make coffee for self and wife - and when she stopped drinking coffee, I moved to a 3 cup Bialetti Venus (much easier to keep clean than the aluminium version, but a little trickier to do up tight enough - don’t use the handle to provide leverage, it won’t end well). I’ve always like the Bialetti for its simplicity - fill basket with coffee, fill base with water to the valve, assemble and go. The only variable to deal with is the grind of the coffee. 

I find the three cup produces a (to my taste) nice strong coffee which is drinkable immediately if I add a little cold water to to it.

Regards,
John

Profitec Pro 600, Niche Zero, 1Zpresso JX Pro, Osmio Zero

If I could think of something witty and original to put in my signature, this is where it would be . . .

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I use a Bialetti 9 cup every few days to make a batch of "concentrated coffee" that I put into a flask and keep in the fridge.

I put boiled water into the warmed base then drop the coffee in and tighten, this way it is only on the heat for a minute or two before extraction starts. I keep the heat on until about 15 seconds after the coffee begins to show and put the pot into a pan of cool water as soon as the extraction is finished. My daughter then uses this to make cold lattes for a couple of days. Using this technique seems to have greatly reduced the bitterness I was experiencing. She can't be bothered to learn how to use the espresso machine, kids eh!

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Thank you for the replies, i think im slowly coming to terms with it, after a little experimentation. My first when i used almost all the pot for one long strong coffee and kept me awake all night ! I think its more potent than it tastes !  Now im getting 3 decent cups of 2/3 milk 

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I've added an aeropress paper on top of the coffee, so between the upper part and the coffee, so no sediments go to the upper chamber. I was impressed with the result!

  • Like 1

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

Also at: CoffeeTime Forum & Niche Zero Owners Group

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 21/07/2020 at 13:55, MediumRoastSteam said:

I've added an aeropress paper on top of the coffee, so between the upper part and the coffee, so no sediments go to the upper chamber. I was impressed with the result!

Oh nice tip, I'm going to give this a go! 

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On 20/07/2020 at 00:39, Brewtime said:

wow, thanks for the quick response

 

So i should be able to get 6 single expressos, i just cant see how i could make 6 long drinks by adding milk, ike i say to be anywhere near strong enough i think i would only get two small mugs of coffee. Am i doing something wrong, or do i just like strong coffee ?

@Brewtime I went through a similar dilemma, I was gifted a 3-4 cup bialetti, I didn't realise I was technically drinking 4 shots, I'm usually the only one drinking coffee, so when I realised this I tried to put less grind in, but that messed up the strength and taste! I'm now filling up the basket level again and just have half in the morning, and cool the remainder for ice coffee like @ChilledMatt 's well caffeinated daughter 😆 . Now I can start to focus on getting a good consistent taste.

 

When using moka, whats the go to for milk? I have a plunge metal jug thing, which gets very frothy but when I pour, the milk separates so its not blended? maybe I'm doing it wrong or i need to one of those wands....

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  • 2 months later...

Sorry to hijack an old thread, but as a number of knowledgeable members have already contributed it seemed a reasonable place to post!

From a coffee perspective, I had a disappointing holiday week this summer: I packed my Kinu M47 and an old Bialetti Moka pot that had been gathering dust.  No matter what I tried, I couldn't hide the strong hint of aluminium imparted by the moka pot. So I recently threw some money at the problem and bought a 6-cup Alessi 9090.

I have been trying irregularly to get to grips with this during home working days, to avoid keeping the LR hot all day long. 

I filmed today's efforts in the hope that I might get some feedback on how this looks compared to what others are managing to produce from similar kit.

I used what I think is the standard method:

  • Fill to vent with hot water
  • Heat water to boiling on hot
  • turn hob down to minimum
  • Grind 25g coffee to fill basket
  • level and tap lightly
  • fit basket and top to base of moka pot
  • keep hob on low and even heat
  • Yield was 150 ml

Coffee was a lovely fruity Guatemalan from Crankhouse.   (Appreciate this means nothing for absolute comparisons, but....) ground on the EKs at 1.5; I have been grinding at 0.45 for the LR.

The brew really did taste excellent to me, different from brewing as straight espresso on the LR - (from the Crankhouse tasting notes) less "strawberry", more "cherry"  maybe, but very enjoyable indeed and no hint of aluminium flavours!!

Brew took 2 minutes and looked consistent.

How does that timing compare?

https://youtu.be/NZ782T58XnQ

I threw in a short video of the pour - again - visibly, does this look similar level of dissolved solids?

https://youtu.be/Anl21E3cCxA

Keen to hear any observations, as have never manged to find a moka pot brew out in a cafe, so really only have my own learnings and observations to go on. 

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okay, 

So another question, please: Can someone please explain to me what impacts the coffee yield?

I fancied another go this afternoon, so just brewed up another pot.  Everything the same as before EXCEPT for the following:

  • slightly finer grind (EK1.3)
  • Slightly higher gas 

Brew time was 1 min 45s from first drips this time.  Smooth flow, visibly more body to the drink BUT only 105 yield?l!!

Come at this from an espresso mindset, to only get 70% of the yield from pot 1 is too much variance, but I don't know what has caused it.

As before, I pulled the pot off the heat and doused in cold water once the spurting started.

The coffee is less pleasant.  Very strong almost sickly cherry taste.  I have to admit I prefer the greater body to the drink.

Thoughts / help appreciated!

Edited by rob177palmer
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So I think that the grind seems to impact yield - too fine seems to result in a small yield.

I can’t work out why this might be tho.

Reducing the temp once the coffee starts to show seems to help also.

Latest attempt, with a Kenyan bean that is superb fruity notes on my LR is, frankly, terrible and little more than a caffeine injection



Work to perfect this continues!!


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  • 5 weeks later...

 

🌟Quiz time for the group.......

 

I was wondering about this - grind vs moka pot.

I have faffled about with my grinder and have it different for different beans, noted so I know which one is which, and as I prefer the caramel / roast/chocolate notes I tend to find I need cold water for a lot of the beans I have tried so far, unless dark roast where boiling water works well for me.

I have also altered my water using the peak water jug and that did seem to have a positive effect, I live in a terribly hard water area .

I also turn down the heat once the coffee comes through at the beginning, again trying to lengthen the extraction time to reap the rewards of the darker notes and avoid fruity acidic coffe which is not my bag, and also douse it in a bowl of cold water to stop it going to far to stop any bitterness creeping in.

So I was thinking about the yuletide pixies🧚‍♀️ and what they might bring me (family requires a list as I am a picky old thing) and initially thought of upgrading my mokka pot but now am thinking about my grinder as, bless it, I really cannot get it to provide an even grind  - am presently having to sieve the grind and then nudge it across a paper towel before weighing it and adding to the pot ( saw a video suggesting this and for me it made a massive difference in consistency of my brews) but am not looking for them to spend oodles on one just because it can grind espresso - which I don't need.

Q1...

So, for all the marvelous wizards🧙‍♂️🧙‍♀️ out there, without going for the best of the best in manual just because it is awesome at all things, ...what can I get away with, that will provide consistency but only needs a coarser grind because it is only going in a mokka pot and not being blasted at 9bar and all that??

I am stumped - so many choices. Initially I thought a conical burr would be good starting point but having read more it seems stainless steel is better, and something about bearings for consistency?

Q2...

Do I need steel if I am only grinding for me at the moment, and only for the coarser mokka pot?

is one type of steel burr/blade better than another for consistency and even grind for mokka pot usage?

Q3...

Is it truley the bearings that provide the consistency I look for ( and also please, an even grind so that I am not detroying rain forests in my attempt to get the chunky and fine bits out at the end.) and are one type better than another?

Bonus points...

also - will upgrading my grinder really  help me as a simple mokka pot brewer or is that something that is more relevant to more complex coffee processes like pour over/filter and espresso?

Hint...

also - I really like the look of the felgrind but that is waaaay out of the price range for pixies, if we can keep it under £100 they will be quite grateful.

Ideas welcome😺

 

I know nothing 😜

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Look at 1zpresso JX or smaller Q models. The price is in USD so might come in under £100 shipped directly? 

Or the Aergrind/speed from MBK who produce the Feldgrind...

Regardless of brew method (I don't use a mokka) more consistent grinds will only be a good thing. Steel burrs are much faster than munching through beans than the ceramic ones on cheaper models, bearings and more solid construction also justify the jump in price imo.

 

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7 hours ago, Stu Beck said:

Or the Aergrind/speed from MBK who produce the Feldgrind.

Thank-you for your reply, I did look at the aergrind and the speedgring and the fact that next week the feld47 is on sale but then I looked at the videos and how hard it is to get the coffee pot off the bottom and read the less than stellar reviews of the MBK customer service ( or complete lack thereof) and was put off.

I like the look of the new timemore (TIMO) Chestnut X, but that is soooo expensive , but such lovely burrs, well back to the t'internet for more research.

I know nothing 😜

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So, the whole grinder thing went in a completely different direction...

An artist friend of mine has just finished somehting that is utterly awesome and so that is going to be delivered by pixies as they much prefer to give art than - well, " a bit of kitchen equipment" as one of them so wonderfully put it😅

So left to my own devices I completely moved away from the aergrind @Stu Beck, just becasue if something goes wrong, I would really like some help, and after falling down the video rabbit hole of @DavecUK (was watching your video from the steam thing, and then another and then came across the reiew you did of the JX series) combined with Amazon doint virtually £50 off the simple JX (not the pro) ...well I just bought one, we'll see if I can get a proper use of it, I am so new to all of this I might not get the best of it for a while, but I have so , so very much to learn, I think it will do me for a bit.

 

Thank-you for your help, as always, you are super helpful.

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I know nothing 😜

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JX is effectively the same grinder as the JX Pro (just has the different adjuster bit on it), it has less fine adjustment, although I believe they recently added a few more adjustment points on the JX, at least that's what one of my subscribers said.

Edited by DavecUK
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