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Moka pot - a few questions


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So after 15 years or so I’ve decided to give the Moka pot a go again. I’ve read quite a bit about it, and how one should brew (using boiling water instead of cold, kill the brew process once it starts puffing by putting under the tap for a few seconds etc, etc). That’s all good.

 

I’m using a Bialetti Venus 4 cup.

 

- How coarse should the coffee be? Some say filter/drip coarse, some say just coarser than espresso. Could anyone give me a hint?

 

- How much is a “dose” (e.g: equivalent to double espresso 18g in, 36g out) in terms of cafeine? I ask that because the funnel/basket takes roughly 16g of ground coffee, but the overall beverage weight produced is around 70g, which I’m finding much “stronger” than a standard 1:2 ratio espresso of (18g in, 36g out).

 

- Would a 2cup moka be better to brew for 1 person?

 

Thanks in advance.

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So, the whole grinder thing went in a completely different direction... An artist friend of mine has just finished somehting that is utterly awesome and so that is going to be delivered by pixies

To obtain proper extraction one should fill filter basket full or close to it. That is why it's important to choose correct volume/size of your moka. Here are some italian tips https://caffetti

I've added an aeropress paper on top of the coffee, so between the upper part and the coffee, so no sediments go to the upper chamber. I was impressed with the result!

Dose in terms of caffeine will be the same as espresso, or drip...wherever you use 16g for that particular bean. Unless you're grinding way too coarse for espresso, 16:70g should be much weaker than a 18:36g shot. Moka pots let a fair bit of sediment through, which can increase the perception of strength & I personally find that it can give me the jitters.

 

As moka pot coffee comes out way too hot for me to drink, I often pour it into a Melitta cone with Filtropa paper, or a V60 with a Chemex paper, to remove the worst of the silt & allow it to cool before drinking.

 

Grind just fine enough to keep the coffee sweet, sediment reasonable & away from sharp/tart sourness.

 

I'd consider 16g dose to be a 1-2 person brew, I have 2 cup pots that hold that much. I wouldn't hold too much store by the stated number of cups.

“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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Hi MediumRoastSteam (cool username!)

I have been using a Bialett Easy Moka (6 cup) for several years now. I added the 4 cup Kitty to the stable about a year ago. I use it exclusively on an induction hob.

I get good results in the Kitty from a variety of beans using the following starting points.

I get the water to near or boiling before dropping in the charged funnel and using a rolled paper towel, screwing the chamber on top. I do not overfill or under-fill.

I have a starting weight of 12gm and a set point midway on the espresso settings for the grinder. If this is not visibly enough grounds in the funnel, ie should be just a tad below the rim, I add some more. The 'just below the rim' is important.

When I see the brew ooze from the pipe I immediately drop the temperature control to 100C. When the coffee is spluttering clearish (the chamber will be half to two thirds full by now) I stop the he hob. I may at this point leave it on the hob awhile or remove, depending on how vigorous the spluttering is.

 

Then on drinking I make notes and recommendations to adjust grind level and weight of coffee accordingly.

 

With the 'Easy' it is much the same thing except I time from when the coffee first appears to the 'blonde' stage, and then to the bleep to say its done. The starting weight is 21gm

This is recorded and I adjust as I feel necessary next time round.

 

I do not time the Kitty....it is just to quick on the induction hob.

I also think that the 6 cup 'Easy' makes a better cupper than the 4 cup Kitty.

 

What I am trying to illustrate is, adjust your weight and grind so that the coffee sits just under the rim of the cup, and you will probably find you then get the best result.

Edited by Batian
Correction of model! Sorry.
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Hi MediumRoastSteam (cool username!)

I have been using a Bialett Easy Moka (6 cup) for several years now. I added the 4 cup Venus to the stable about a year ago. I use it exclusively on an induction hob.

I get good results in the Venus from a variety of beans using the following starting points.

I get the water to near or boiling before dropping in the charged funnel and using a rolled paper towel, screwing the chamber on top. I do not overfill or under-fill.

I have a starting weight of 12gm and a set point midway on the espresso settings for the grinder. If this is not visibly enough grounds in the funnel, ie should be just a tad below the rim, I add some more. The 'just below the rim' is important.

When I see the brew ooze from the pipe I immediately drop the temperature control to 100C. When the coffee is spluttering clearish (the chamber will be half to two thirds full by now) I stop the he hob. I may at this point leave it on the hob awhile or remove, depending on how vigorous the spluttering is.

 

Then on drinking I make notes and recommendations to adjust grind level and weight of coffee accordingly.

 

With the 'Easy' it is much the same thing except I time from when the coffee first appears to the 'blonde' stage, and then to the bleep to say its done. The starting weight is 21gm

This is recorded and I adjust as I feel necessary next time round.

 

I do not time the Venus....it is just to quick on the induction hob.

I also think that the 6 cup 'Easy' makes a better cupper than the 4 cup Venus.

 

What I am trying to illustrate is, adjust your weight and grind so that the coffee sits just under the rim of the cup, and you will probably find you then get the best result.

 

Hi, thanks for the feedback.

 

It may be that is early days, but what I am noticing is that I am getting very little beverage.

 

For instance, the chamber doesn’t seem to fill anywhere near 2/3rds full. By the time it starts spluttering, I get between 70ml and 90ml of liquid.

 

I’ve been doing pretty much everything as you describe. How much beverage (weight or ml) do you get out of your Venus 4 cup when you follow your routine? Also, how long does it take (roughly) from the first ooze to the end?

 

Thanks for the advice and pointers, I appreciate it.

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

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I will check it out tomorrow am. Please note correction of model...I am using a 4 cup Bialetti Kitty. They will be much the same performance wise? My instruction leaflet shows the same bumph for the whole range of stainless steel Mokas under the collective banner of 'Elegance'.

As a rough guide now, 230 ml in and 170 ml out. There is always a little water left in the base. This is an intentional safety feature.

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Hi, thanks for the feedback.

 

It may be that is early days, but what I am noticing is that I am getting very little beverage.

 

For instance, the chamber doesn’t seem to fill anywhere near 2/3rds full. By the time it starts spluttering, I get between 70ml and 90ml of liquid.

 

I’ve been doing pretty much everything as you describe. How much beverage (weight or ml) do you get out of your Venus 4 cup when you follow your routine? Also, how long does it take (roughly) from the first ooze to the end?

 

Thanks for the advice and pointers, I appreciate it.

 

From my pots that take a 18g dose, I get just over 80g out.

“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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From my pots that take a 18g dose, I get just over 80g out.

 

Cool! Thanks for this. I’m not too many miles off then :-)

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

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I have an induction Moka Pot..

 

36790820996_3aec79168b.jpg

 

I use a grind similar to a V60 and use an wetted AeroPress filter stuck to the filter on the top half of the Moka. This stops sediment getting through and produces a cleaner cup.

I dose at around 18g for 300g of water.

Input: 'Terranovered’ Versalab M3  + Niche

Output: Slayer One Group + La Pavoni + V60 + AeroPress + Syphon + Bialetti Induction Moka Pot + Bialetti Mucka Express + jar of instant for visitors..

 

 

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I have an induction Moka Pot..

 

36790820996_3aec79168b.jpg

 

I use a grind similar to a V60 and use an wetted AeroPress filter stuck to the filter on the top half of the Moka. This stops sediment getting through and produces a cleaner cup.

I dose at around 18g for 300g of water.

 

After what MWJB said, the Aeropress filter came to mind straight away. Does it fit perfectly on yours or do you have some gap? If you do have a gap, then it *may* fit mine well.

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

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I just checked, it won’t fit out of the box on mine. Seems like the Aeropress filter is 64mm diameter, whereas my moka pot funnel is 53mm.

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

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I just checked, it won’t fit out of the box on mine. Seems like the Aeropress filter is 64mm diameter, whereas my moka pot funnel is 53mm.

 

The filter fits mine perfectly. On the top part it overlaps evenly onto the rubber gasket ring.

Input: 'Terranovered’ Versalab M3  + Niche

Output: Slayer One Group + La Pavoni + V60 + AeroPress + Syphon + Bialetti Induction Moka Pot + Bialetti Mucka Express + jar of instant for visitors..

 

 

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I use a moka pot for my morning coffee. A 1-3 cup bialetti clone. Everything is eyeballed - water up to the valve, and one aeropress scoop of beans. Grind is fine, but coarser than espresso.

So, no idea how much coffee, no idea how much water, but I know I get around 100ml out.

 

Despite the inaccuracy, it makes a wonderful brew.

I tend to froth up some milk with an electric whisk and make a ghetto latte. Excellent!

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To obtain proper extraction one should fill filter basket full or close to it. That is why it's important to choose correct volume/size of your moka.

Here are some italian tips

https://caffettiere.blogspot.com/2017/09/alla-ricerca-del-caffe-perfetto-con-la.html

http://caffettiere.blogspot.it/2017/08/alla-ricerca-del-caffe-perfetto-con-la_16.html

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Hi, thanks for the feedback.

 

It may be that is early days, but what I am noticing is that I am getting very little beverage.

 

For instance, the chamber doesn’t seem to fill anywhere near 2/3rds full. By the time it starts spluttering, I get between 70ml and 90ml of liquid.

 

I’ve been doing pretty much everything as you describe. How much beverage (weight or ml) do you get out of your Venus 4 cup when you follow your routine? Also, how long does it take (roughly) from the first ooze to the end?

 

Thanks for the advice and pointers, I appreciate it.

 

Here are the weights and measures.

 

220g water

13g coffee

169g yield (some water remains in the boiling pot by design.)

Time from first dribble appearing from pipe to dying splutters, 1 minute 21 seconds.

 

Using the 4 cup Kitty on an induction hob I follow the Bialetti instructions and heat on high until the first dribble appears. I then drop the temperature to 100C cutting it completely shortly after, and/or give it a little more heat if and when I think it necessary. Usually there is enough heat in the hob to carry the brew through OK.

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Here are the weights and measures.

 

220g water

13g coffee

169g yield (some water remains in the boiling pot by design.)

Time from first dribble appearing from pipe to dying splutters, 1 minute 21 seconds.

 

Using the 4 cup Kitty on an induction hob I follow the Bialetti instructions and heat on high until the first dribble appears. I then drop the temperature to 100C cutting it completely shortly after, and/or give it a little more heat if and when I think it necessary. Usually there is enough heat in the hob to carry the brew through OK.

 

Interesting ... today I did it again, getting better results I must say:

 

19g of coffee in (to the rim of the basket)

Water up to valve (boiling water)

85g beverage yield

 

Thanks for the feedback!

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

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MediumRoastSteam

 

You might like to try adjusting the grind so that the funnel is filled to about 1/16" below the rim. The coffee needs to expand, and the whole physics is altered if it can not.

I find that usually means a weight in the range of 12 to 14 grams. I usually start at 12 grams and by a couple of goes with a new batch of coffee I have got it sussed to my palate.

Going finer does mean you can get more coffee into the filter, but it then affects the rate of flow and the general physics of the device. And of course, the more coffee, the more of the water is absorbed. This may account for the differences in figures?

But taste is subjective.

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MediumRoastSteam

 

You might like to try adjusting the grind so that the funnel is filled to about 1/16" below the rim. The coffee needs to expand, anfd the whole physics is altered if it can not.

I find that usually means a weight in the range of 12 to 14 grams. I usually start at 12 grams and by a couple of goes with a new batch of coffee I have got it sussed to my palate.

Going finer does mean you can get more coffee into the filter, but it then affects the rate of flow and the general physics of the device. And of course, the more coffee, the more of the water is absorbed. This may account for the differences in figures?

But taste is subjective.

 

Interesting. I’ll try that then. Thanks!

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

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@Batian, this are the tutorial and videos I’ve been going by, you might have seen them before:

 

https://www.stumptowncoffee.com/blog/brew-guides-moka-pot

 

 

 

 

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

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@Batian, this are the tutorial and videos I’ve been going by, you might have seen them before:

 

I had not seen these particular videos before, but I have seen similar and read written articles on the matter.

In the second clip, at 6.25 min and on it is very much a summary of what I and others have said in this thread, and not surprisingly like the instructions from Bialetti?

 

The first video is contradicting some of the Bialetti instructions, I presume to get a stronger shot from the Moka.

For me, I tend to generally stick to the makers instructions and if that does not produce what I want, I would change kit. Sort of, don't ask/expect the kit to do something it was not designed or evolved for, if you know what I mean.

If you have been following the suggestions of second video, I am surprised that you have not been getting a good cuppa. What is going wrong?

Are you using tap water in a hard water area? I switched to bottled water and the change was terrific.

Of course the other two big challenges are the coffee itself and the grind.

Bialetti's recommendations are as my (and A. N. Other) posts above... a medium grind slightly coarse than an espresso grind.

How old is the Moka? Could it be in need of a new seal, filter and clean between the filter and funnel. They can get awfully gungy up there!

I flush mine out every few weeks with lemon juice, followed by heating through with a couple of goes with clean water and then a throw away 'making' with coffee.

 

I have also read that the argument for preheating the water is stronger with the larger pots owing to the heating time and therefore the amount of time the coffee is over the heating water. I suggest an induction hob could be a useful aid if this is to be true. They really are blisteringly quick!

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PS: I’m not saying my coffee is bad :-). As I am new to Moka Pot, I just want to know more what people do :-) So I’m trying different things based on what people say and then see which one works for me.

 

Moka Pot is brand new btw. Thanks!

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

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PS: I’m not saying my coffee is bad :-). As I am new to Moka Pot, I just want to know more what people do :-) So I’m trying different things based on what people say and then see which one works for me.

 

Moka Pot is brand new btw. Thanks!

 

Oh great! I thought you were running into some taste problems. I am sure if you keep jiggling the grind/weight by small increments to fill the basket accordingly, you will develop a feel for your Moka and be able hit the sweet spot fairly quick into a new coffee.

Best.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Another question here if I may:

 

How tight do you screw your Moka Pot? I have a Bialetti Venus (Stainless Steel) and find that, unless I screw it really tight (I mean, really tight, to the point that over a few weeks I actually injured my thumbs’ ligaments!) I get a very mediocre cup of coffee, as the pressure leaks slightly. The consequence is that there isn’t enough pressure build up and one would get 70ml of beverage at most - including the splutters - whereas if screwed tightly I usually stop at 90ml beverage and there’s plenty more coming if I don’t.

 

It’s a 3 cup Bialetti Venus, bought brand new a couple of months ago. I keep it very clean and checked the silicone gasket. It appears to be perfect.

 

Thanks.

Current: Lelit Elizabeth / Niche Zero / VST baskets / Distilled water + 100mg NaCO3/L

Previous: Gaggia Classic | Eureka Mignon | Rocket Cellini Evo | Profitec 700 | Profitec T-64 | Gene Cafe CBR-101 | Kinu M68 | Feldgrind 2 | La Pavoni Europiccola 2012

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I have bialetti dama and needs to be tightened real good otherwise it leaks too. Gasket seems in very good condition as well

Lelit Elizabeth V3 | Niche Zero | Osmio Zero | Kinu M47 V3 | VST Ridgeless 18gr & 22gr  | 2X 64oz Airscapes & a CoffeeVac

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I have bialetti dama and needs to be tightened real good otherwise it leaks too. Gasket seems in very good condition as well

 

I don't have a Dama, just a classic Bialetti moka pot, but I find that putting a little olive oil on the thread of the base helps to prevent leaks.

ECM Mechanika V Slim / Eureka Mignon MK2 / Wilfa Svart grinder

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Can we use food grade silicone? The ones they sell on ebay https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F222755731397

I wanted to get one of these to put on the threads of coffee grinder for smoother operation of finer or coarser grind setting. Would that be suitable for that too?

Lelit Elizabeth V3 | Niche Zero | Osmio Zero | Kinu M47 V3 | VST Ridgeless 18gr & 22gr  | 2X 64oz Airscapes & a CoffeeVac

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