Jump to content
Phobic

Verona 10 months in

Recommended Posts

it's still amazing, not put a foot wrong.

 

I'm guessing because no-one ever posts in this forum that it's the same for everyone else?

Edited by Phobic

Yuxo09y.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, bit like the Carlsberg complaints office hopefully! Only criticism I can level at it is that short cavitation when lifting the lever but it's a superb machine in so many ways, I bought it for the details when moving from Duetto MK2 ( I could not justify a Vesuvius ).


ACS Vesuvius, Niche Zero, Dalian Amazon & assorted greens, Osmio Zero

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Phobic any update? I'm considering joining the club...


Sage Duo Temp Pro and Mazzer Super Jolly (Doserless Mod) | Espresso Addict!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@Phobic any update? I'm considering joining the club...

 

Noooooo! Don't leave the DTP club! A worthy upgrade though if you were to betray us all!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's still faultless for me, I'd researched it very well and still think all the detail and improvements that Dave insisted were spot on and what set it apart from the other machines in the same price bracket.

 

I'm not so sure you'd be able to taste much difference in the cup, but still think in terms of longevity the QM has the edge.

 

don't regret spending the cash at all.

 

only thing to consider for me still is the size, it's not a small machine....but there's bigger out there.


Yuxo09y.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
it's still faultless for me, I'd researched it very well and still think all the detail and improvements that Dave insisted were spot on and what set it apart from the other machines in the same price bracket.

 

I'm not so sure you'd be able to taste much difference in the cup, but still think in terms of longevity the QM has the edge.

 

don't regret spending the cash at all.

 

only thing to consider for me still is the size, it's not a small machine....but there's bigger out there.

Thanks @Phobic

 

Dave's review has brought it on my radar for the reasons you state. I spoke to Bella Barista today and apparently they aren't doing anymore now either :sadface:

 

They have an ex demo unit at a great price but it's collection only but may be worth a punt to see in the flesh and have a play.


Sage Duo Temp Pro and Mazzer Super Jolly (Doserless Mod) | Espresso Addict!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Verona is being discontinued by Bellabarista? Wonder is it a supply issue or just not enough sold. That is the one I would plumb for especially after reading Dave's review but it was my favourite even before I became aware of that review.Looks really well made and just a tad understated which I prefer. The spec seems perfect.The ECM probably matches it but it is more expensive. The ex demo unit looks a good buy. How old is it? When I visited that machine seemed to be the go to one for demo's. I got my first tester coffee from it.


Vesuvius, Mazzer Major Doserless, Genecafe, Push Tamper,Motta Leveller, Cheap scales

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Verona is being discontinued by Bellabarista? Wonder is it a supply issue or just not enough sold. That is the one I would plumb for especially after reading Dave's review but it was my favourite even before I became aware of that review.Looks really well made and just a tad understated which I prefer. The spec seems perfect.The ECM probably matches it but it is more expensive. The ex demo unit looks a good buy. How old is it? When I visited that machine seemed to be the go to one for demo's. I got my first tester coffee from it.

 

@tonerei Claudette's words were she felt other manufacturers (like ECM) had caught up and over taken it AND were outselling it. She mentioned the ECM Synchronika and the Duetto IV.

 

I suppose when you're importing pallet loads of machines I guess how well something sells, regardless of how well it's designed, is an important business consideration. ROI and all that.


Sage Duo Temp Pro and Mazzer Super Jolly (Doserless Mod) | Espresso Addict!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@tonerei Claudette's words were she felt other manufacturers (like ECM) had caught up and over taken it AND were outselling it. She mentioned the ECM Synchronika and the Duetto IV.

 

I suppose when you're importing pallet loads of machines I guess how well something sells, regardless of how well it's designed, is an important business consideration. ROI and all that.

 

Really...wow, I don't think others have caught up. The drain taps alone are something I believe should be on every machine. Also most/All don't or rather didn't have proper independent dual loop PIDs. How many do now, I don't know, but I would suspect not many. It was also tested and verified as temperature stable and accurate by me with my recommended PID settings as well. That's a real shame. Still, you guys will keep buying those brand new Rocket Machines.

 

What this does underline though is "mmmm shiney" outclasses technical considerations almost every time.....one of the reason I am not so keen to review machines nowadays unless it's new or interesting in some way. No way am I going to waste my time reviewing when technicals, internals and mechanical design are being ignored.........I got better things to do than sales fluff. ;)

 

Heres to hoping I didn't waste my time and energy on the Lelit Mara.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Really...wow, I don't think others have caught up. The drain taps alone are something I believe should be on every machine. Also most/All don't or rather didn't have proper independent dual loop PIDs. How many do now, I don't know, but I would suspect not many. It was also tested and verified as temperature stable and accurate by me with my recommended PID settings as well. That's a real shame. Still, you guys will keep buying those brand new Rocket Machines.

 

What this does underline though is "mmmm shiney" outclasses technical considerations almost every time.....one of the reason I am not so keen to review machines nowadays unless it's new or interesting in some way. No way am I going to waste my time reviewing when technicals, internals and mechanical design are being ignored.........I got better things to do than sales fluff. ;)

 

Heres to hoping I didn't waste my time and energy on the Lelit Mara.

 

@DavecUK have you any experience of the newer ECM machines or the newer Duetto and how they'd stack up with the Verona?


Sage Duo Temp Pro and Mazzer Super Jolly (Doserless Mod) | Espresso Addict!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not the latest ones no, but the older ECMs I tested were well made. I think the only way you can tell how they stack up is to look at the detailed specs. Try and get an owner to confirm whether the PID is a proper dual loop with separate settings (not just temperature) for the steam and brew boilers. This is my latest hobby horse, well has been ever since I gave the design input into the Verona. PIDs for dual boilers should have P1, I1, and D1 parameters for the brew boiler and P2, I2 and D3..plus some band limit functions to dictate the temp range over which the PID operates as a PID. This is because these PIDs have inherent PIDness regardless of the P,I and D settings. If this is not implemented, steam boilers come under PID control sharing parameters with the brew boiler (apart from temp) and steaming is approximately 20% reduced.

 

Of course if a dual boiler uses a pressurestat, no problem. As an example the Vesuvius has 3 quite sophisticated PID algorithms , all totally separate. One for steam, one for brew temp and the last for the pressure control (the PID helps hugely in very accurate control of pressure..

 

With the Duetto same thing for now, check the specs and ask an owner to go thru the PID settings. I have been asked to review the new Duetto, but have kicked it into the long grass a bit. I've Christmas, a new roaster, probably a few other new machines to look at first.

 

I realise the problem is no one yet does the detail of these machines like me, but scouring the internet might get the information in bits and pieces that you need. The Verona review of course should be all you need for that machine.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any synchronika owners can confirm if it’s dual loop PID?


Plumbed in Vesuvius - BWT Bestmax - Niche in Black. Aeropress and Aergrind

 

Live and Let Live

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any synchronika owners can confirm if it’s dual loop PID?

 

I was coincidentally watching the Whole Latte Love video review of the synchronika today - they said that the PID gets the brew boiler up to temperature first and then warms up the steam boiler. There is also a video where they edit the params of the profitec 700 PID and they only have one set of parameters on what is a 3 boiler PID. There is something else on the WLL website that indicates the PID on the profitec and synchronika are the same unit. So I would say it is not dual loop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@DavecUK have you any experience of the newer ECM machines or the newer Duetto and how they'd stack up with the Verona?

 

He has answered that already ATZ. The Verona is the one. Read Dave's review all the sensible things that should be done where incorporated into that machine. Parts are all available you are saving circa £1k on the ECM's! BTW re Unica for a more basic machine I think it is the biz. Boiler being small means it heats quickly which is fine unless you are feeding a large dinner party with espresso and latte's. The PID is programmable. Leoleo advised me on that and found a german site where they explain how to adjust those parameters if one is so inclined. I did a proper test on a milk drink today and it steams milk excellently. Gets to temperature very quickly. To go back to coffee requires a manual refill to get the temp down. With the Verona you would have no problem on that score.

 

Out of curiosity DavecUK how long does it take for the Verona to get up to temp? Would love to know if Quickmill incorporated your suggestions into the Vetrano range?


Vesuvius, Mazzer Major Doserless, Genecafe, Push Tamper,Motta Leveller, Cheap scales

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Out of curiosity DavecUK how long does it take for the Verona to get up to temp? Would love to know if Quickmill incorporated your suggestions into the Vetrano range?

 

realistically about 25 - 30 minutes (because of the portafilter which takes time as well). You can put a turban (using a tea towel) on the group/portafilter and speed that up to around 15-20m. The simplest way of course is to put it on a timer.

 

This is the other thing...more and more machines that use software switch on now won't function on timers again Vesuvius will, QM will, lelit will, but it's something to watch out for. If I do a review on a machine now I always check it will work on a timer switch or wemo switch and like the Vesuvius will return to an on or off state (depending on what it's set to be after a power loss).

 

There are quite a few things people looking for machines completely overlook because they can be dazzled by slick marketing. When you try to say anything, it's normally met with agression by owners and reassurance to potential new owners by existing owners. e.g. the Fracini Piccino non PID machine vs the Fracino Piccino PID machine.

 

P.S. If you can put it on a timer, warm up times are not really important and certainly shouldn't make a go no go decision to purchase.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
realistically about 25 - 30 minutes (because of the portafilter which takes time as well). You can put a turban (using a tea towel) on the group/portafilter and speed that up to around 15-20m. The simplest way of course is to put it on a timer.

 

This is the other thing...more and more machines that use software switch on now won't function on timers again Vesuvius will, QM will, lelit will, but it's something to watch out for. If I do a review on a machine now I always check it will work on a timer switch or wemo switch and like the Vesuvius will return to an on or off state (depending on what it's set to be after a power loss).

 

There are quite a few things people looking for machines completely overlook because they can be dazzled by slick marketing. When you try to say anything, it's normally met with agression by owners and reassurance to potential new owners by existing owners. e.g. the Fracini Piccino non PID machine vs the Fracino Piccino PID machine.

 

P.S. If you can put it on a timer, warm up times are not really important and certainly shouldn't make a go no go decision to purchase.

This is why I like your reviews @DavecUK you show the practicalities of using the machines and their relative pros and cons regardless of looks.

 

I have to admit I want a machine to look good, but I also want the functionality and serviceability alongside good coffee too.

 

The newer ECM HX machines and Quickmill Verona seem to tick those boxes bit very few machines seem to deliver on everything, which is a touch frustrating.


Sage Duo Temp Pro and Mazzer Super Jolly (Doserless Mod) | Espresso Addict!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is why I like your reviews @DavecUK you show the practicalities of using the machines and their relative pros and cons regardless of looks.

 

I have to admit I want a machine to look good, but I also want the functionality and serviceability alongside good coffee too.

 

The newer ECM HX machines and Quickmill Verona seem to tick those boxes bit very few machines seem to deliver on everything, which is a touch frustrating.

 

Well if you can keep your powder dry for a day or so, there might just be some very special stuff coming up in the for sale forum.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very disappointed if they have stopped building the Verona. I absolutely adore mine. Average three to five coffees a day (with some milk steaming) and so far, touch wood, it's been faultless.

 

My brother has a Rocket R58 and it is just not on the same level of quality. All that plastic underneath !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Very disappointed if they have stopped building the Verona. I absolutely adore mine. Average three to five coffees a day (with some milk steaming) and so far, touch wood, it's been faultless.

 

My brother has a Rocket R58 and it is just not on the same level of quality. All that plastic underneath !

See this is what makes it appealing to me. It seems like an exceptional quality and well thought out machine. I'm disappointed they're not doing more too.


Sage Duo Temp Pro and Mazzer Super Jolly (Doserless Mod) | Espresso Addict!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
realistically about 25 - 30 minutes (because of the portafilter which takes time as well). You can put a turban (using a tea towel) on the group/portafilter and speed that up to around 15-20m. The simplest way of course is to put it on a timer.

 

If I want to reduce the heat up time I heat the PF with a kettle and then stick it back in, and/or once the boilers up to temp I will back flush a few times, reduces the time significantly.

 

but in all honesty the 1st thing me or the wife do when we get up is turn the machine on, that gives plenty of time while we get breakfast ready for things to heat up.


Yuxo09y.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Really...wow, I don't think others have caught up. The drain taps alone are something I believe should be on every machine. Also most/All don't or rather didn't have proper independent dual loop PIDs. How many do now, I don't know, but I would suspect not many. It was also tested and verified as temperature stable and accurate by me with my recommended PID settings as well. That's a real shame. Still, you guys will keep buying those brand new Rocket Machines.

 

What this does underline though is "mmmm shiney" outclasses technical considerations almost every time.....one of the reason I am not so keen to review machines nowadays unless it's new or interesting in some way. No way am I going to waste my time reviewing when technicals, internals and mechanical design are being ignored.........I got better things to do than sales fluff. ;)

 

Heres to hoping I didn't waste my time and energy on the Lelit Mara.

 

these are just some of the examples of what sets the machine apart. Real shame Bella are stopping stocking it, get it while you can


Yuxo09y.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heres to hoping I didn't waste my time and energy on the Lelit Mara.

@DavecUK

I'm seriously considering the Lelit PL62 based mainly on your review with the videos. Its' nice to see someone review with a technical but also the insiders view and what's in the machine beyond its price point!

 

If I do decide to get the Lelit then both of your reviews will have swayed my selections first being the Niche.

 

..message ends..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Playing catch up here on the forum, getting my feet under the table and realising my choice of machine may be out my reach owing to suggestions that BB are no longer going to retail the QM VERONA, I am curious as to when this machine hit the market, yes it's marketed as a 2017 so does that indicate it's arrival was mid/late 2016 ?.

 

Not seen any reason yet as to why BB will no longer supply, I appreciate there's a lot goes on behind the scene's between manufacturers, suppliers and retailers, I see THE other retailer fails to have as big a fan club as BB, yet I note they have a VETRONA limited edition wood features, how does that measure up in comparison.

As BB provide so much detail with a great site, I already feel a sense of loyalty to make my purchase there, especially as the lengthy review touched on something that I can concur with, metallic tang!, I can never drink beers, lagers from a can, so on that brass boiler spec it was/is a great plus for me, of course most of the review put the VERONA well out from the rest.

 

JWL.


One Life this is it, it's not a rehearsal so enjoy it best you can - Have some fun, buy a coffee machine.;)

 

ECM Synchronika - ECM V-Titan 64 Grinder - EXPOBAR MEGGACREM 2 Group - MAZZER Super Jolly grinder with doser -  AMIR Scales and they work fine - 15-18-20-22-25g VST Filter Baskets - Several MOTTA Jugs and a Home Made Knock Box. - Useful contributions from the Family.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Playing catch up here on the forum, getting my feet under the table and realising my choice of machine may be out my reach owing to suggestions that BB are no longer going to retail the QM VERONA, I am curious as to when this machine hit the market, yes it's marketed as a 2017 so does that indicate it's arrival was mid/late 2016 ?.

 

Not seen any reason yet as to why BB will no longer supply, I appreciate there's a lot goes on behind the scene's between manufacturers, suppliers and retailers, I see THE other retailer fails to have as big a fan club as BB, yet I note they have a VETRONA limited edition wood features, how does that measure up in comparison.

As BB provide so much detail with a great site, I already feel a sense of loyalty to make my purchase there, especially as the lengthy review touched on something that I can concur with, metallic tang!, I can never drink beers, lagers from a can, so on that brass boiler spec it was/is a great plus for me, of course most of the review put the VERONA well out from the rest.

 

JWL.

I actually spoke with Claudette directly on this.

 

As good as the Verona was/is on paper, especially for those of us who value it's features and the way it has been designed. I just don't think it was popular enough for them to continue shipping it in.

 

The average coffee enthusiast wants shiny and named equipment and so I got the impression that the likes of the rockets, ECM and Profitec etc outsold the Verona by some margin, even though they're clearly inferior machines from a technical perspective.

 

People were voting with their wallet so BB have listened. Shame really IMO.


Sage Duo Temp Pro and Mazzer Super Jolly (Doserless Mod) | Espresso Addict!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, the BB verona pre dates late 2016, just the latest version had the PID upgrade to include shot timer and some aesthetic improvements. Aside from that, identical internally from what my research found.


Sage Duo Temp Pro and Mazzer Super Jolly (Doserless Mod) | Espresso Addict!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • About:

    Coffee Forums UK is the UK's premier coffee forum Started in June 2008 by Glenn Watson, we now have more than 22000 mainly UK based members, and welcome more than 3000 members and visitors from around the world each day! With strategic investment and digital expertise from the Jackson Lockhart team (Tait Pollack and Adam Bateman), we are taking Coffee Forums UK to the next level, and are delighted to share the journey with you.

    New Members:

    We are often referred to as the friendliest forum on the web and we look forward to welcoming you onboard.

    Terms of Use

    Advertising

    Coffee Forums Media Kit

    Buy Advertising Space

    Donate

    Get Your Supporter Badge (per year)

×
×
  • Create New...