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Dalian Amazon Experiences


NAJB

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Finally the Amazon has arrived....bit of a delay as I have been away for a couple of weeks but shiny new toy is in the garage.....unfortunately no space for it yet been too busy with other projects but will be first on the agenda for the weekend!!

 

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how did you attached the 3mm prob into the roaster ??

 

Like a boss [emoji41]

 

 

 

It's still a temp solution (but need to wait out my recovery after a little surgery of my thumb...): used a stack of rivets that went tightly over the probe and one another and into the original placements. Fixed by original grub screws. Works fine for 10 roasts now...!

When I return to using tools, I'll a. re-wire everything to better cope with interference and b. take some bolts (M12 I believe...), drill 3mm holes through the middle and try my luck again:)

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just get yourself an M12 to M3 reducer or whatever it is you need.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]35574[/ATTACH]

 

Probes have straight 3mm flanks, no thread or anything. I put up an image at some point... but could still work by using an M4 (inner thread dia. 3.24mm).

 

Didn't realise (again) that there's always a solution somewhere, already :D

Thanks Dave!

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I think you will find the part you want off the shelf, search for something like m12 thermal probe holder etc..

CFUK, the biggest, best and most friendly forum in the UK...with a wealth of knowledge among its many members.

 

 

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I’ve been looking into thermocouple compression fittings for my Cormorant and it seems most off the shelf units are for 1/8th or 1/4 NPT - so an easier solution might be to get an M12 adaptor to either of those two...

 

Alternatively - it’ll cost approx £15 to have one made specifically.

 

cheers Phil

Edited by Beeroclock
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this might work https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/cable-glands/0564951/

I’ve been looking into thermocouple compression fittings for my Cormorant and it seems most off the shelf units are for 1/8th or 1/4 NPT - so an easier solution might be to get an M12 adaptor to either of those two...

 

Alternatively - it’ll cost approx £15 to have one made specifically.

 

cheers Phil

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What are the guidelines for roasting peaberry?

Should I reduce the weight as I would for the Gene?

Others experience please.

 

No need to reduce weight, tend to be smaller so will take on heat quickly....don't let the roast get out of control going into 1st

 

Dave,

Whilst researching to do this roast, (https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?11791-Todays-Roast&p=613096#post613096) I came across this article which relates to Kenyan coffee in general as well as Kenyan PBs:

https://legacy.sweetmarias.com/library/roasting-kenyas/

The author suggests a slower drying time.

Your thoughts please, on the article and how best to do the slowing.

Thank you.

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Dave,

Whilst researching to do this roast, (https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?11791-Todays-Roast&p=613096#post613096) I came across this article which relates to Kenyan coffee in general as well as Kenyan PBs:

https://legacy.sweetmarias.com/library/roasting-kenyas/

The author suggests a slower drying time.

Your thoughts please, on the article and how best to do the slowing.

Thank you.

 

My thoughts on the article:

 

  • The article is probably quite an old one. The size of a bean directly affects the surface area to volume ratio, this has an effect on the way it roasts and can be emphasised/de emphasised depending on the type of roaster...fluid bed, hybridized, drum. This is further complicated by the way the roaster is set up for any particular roast...so when the article talks about size, it's probably a little simplistic.
  • Who is it aimed at, home roasters with tiny roasters of 250g, or people with commercial roasters and what type of roaster; (popper, gene Hottop, Freshroast, Behmor, Bullet, barbecue mesh drum...I think they have dabbled in all of these?
  • Is the intended audience the commercial or home roaster
  • It's very vague, doesn't really give any information

As for drying time, what is it exactly? I recognises the terms, drop temp, turnaround time and temp, ramp rate (ROR), time to 1st (from TA and SOR), duration of 1st, start of 1st to start of 2nd, 2nd.......but not really drying time. I'm sorry but I really don't personally know what they mean by drying time.

 

As for the slowing, when during the roast are you talking about?

CFUK, the biggest, best and most friendly forum in the UK...with a wealth of knowledge among its many members.

 

 

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As for drying time, what is it exactly? I recognises the terms, drop temp, turnaround time and temp, ramp rate (ROR), time to 1st (from TA and SOR), duration of 1st, start of 1st to start of 2nd, 2nd.......but not really drying time. I'm sorry but I really don't personally know what they mean by drying time.

 

My understanding suggests drying phase to be everything before beans start to yellow.

In more physical terms, this should be the period where moisture (or at least most of it) exists a bean - to be completed at around 150°C.

Logging software such as Artisan usually features a marker for this event as many appear to think of it as crucial to reach this point at some 30% of total roast time.

 

Very inaccurate, because when do they actually start to change in colour? Does your probe read correctly?

 

On the other hand serving as a waypoint, so just a different way to describe [Turning Point + RoR]... ?!

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Thanks Davec. As expected detailed reply expressing the lack of detail in the Sweet M's post! But I had to ask.......

 

My understanding (from reading posts from US roasters) of 'drying time' is as Hasi has said above. Our cousins seem to use the expression quite a bit. Perhaps it is just two nations separated by a common language.;)

 

I asked because I suspected you would not endorse this approach with the Amazon....should that be your last sentence?

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Thanks Davec. As expected detailed reply expressing the lack of detail in the Sweet M's post! But I had to ask.......

 

My understanding (from reading posts from US roasters) of 'drying time' is as Hasi has said above. Our cousins seem to use the expression quite a bit. Perhaps it is just two nations separated by a common language.;)

 

I asked because I suspected you would not endorse this approach with the Amazon....should that be your last sentence?

 

In truth I don't know....I mean you could slow the rise to 150, or from 150 to whatever other temp. Turnaround is around 138-142, so that's tricky and during that period they go from cold to 140 ish. Even then I suspect they are still warming to the centre. various reactions don't start until certain temperatures and I concern myself more about those phases and how long I want to be in them (e.g. maillard and caramelisation etc..). It's quite right to say that most moisture is gone by the time the entire bean has reached 150C ish....and by 1st little if any water remains.

 

There is some confusion amongst roasters as to when certain reactions happen...the Maillard can happen at 140C+, but because we need a protein and a reducing sugar present, typically not much happens until about 180 ish+ as sucrose starts to break down into reducing sugars, glucose and fructose.. The upshot being that an important time is 180 onwards and at that point you can Rob peter to pay Paul with Maillard vs Caramelisation vs sweetness....how long you spend in that zone is a personal choice.

CFUK, the biggest, best and most friendly forum in the UK...with a wealth of knowledge among its many members.

 

 

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My understanding of this is the relation to bean density and how the charge temp/drum heat etc affects the bean - i.e. low grown less dense beans can benefit from a more gentle charge and "soak" as opposed to higher grown dense beans which can take higher more aggressive initial heat. I'm assuming that the goal is basically to get the bean past drying i.e. 150-155c so that both the inside and outside of the bean are reasonably even, because nothing much is happening before this stage other than moisture loss...but I'm pretty much a nube...

 

Cheers Phil

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And yet it all comes down to how we take measurements.

My experience with the Amazon so far is mostly consistent with what Dave wrote in his user guide: 1st crack at around 185°C (SHB types). Which is 5-10°C less than "scientific" average. But I guess that's how sensors and controllers work together in this specific arrangement.

 

Now that I have installed dual probes I get two different readings all the time. In fact, don't know which one to trust more... :D And still, I cannot make out any specific ratio to apply corrective functions.

 

But that's a different story... the point I'm trying to make is that we should't rely on temp readings too much. Even less we should compare our readings with what others record on their equipment.

Or maybe I'm wrong and it actually IS important to objectify and adjust to the norm?

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And yet it all comes down to how we take measurements.

My experience with the Amazon so far is mostly consistent with what Dave wrote in his user guide: 1st crack at around 185°C (SHB types). Which is 5-10°C less than "scientific" average. But I guess that's how sensors and controllers work together in this specific arrangement.

 

Now that I have installed dual probes I get two different readings all the time. In fact, don't know which one to trust more... :D And still, I cannot make out any specific ratio to apply corrective functions.

 

But that's a different story... the point I'm trying to make is that we should't rely on temp readings too much. Even less we should compare our readings with what others record on their equipment.

Or maybe I'm wrong and it actually IS important to objectify and adjust to the norm?

 

I think you're wise not to put too much store into other peoples temperatures because of slight differences in every roaster (e.g. probe length, placement, vanes, airflow). long ago I learnt roasters are like people....to an alien we would all look exactly the same, but we're also all quite different. That said there are things people could do to make sharing information much easier and of far more value.

 

 

  • All coffee reaches 1st at a similar temperature (apart from those outlier coffees)...this will be around 193-196C.....unless whizzed up to first super fast or super slow. So we could say 1st when we hear it is 195C (not just a pop or two, but first beginning.

 

Knowing this a simple procedure would be to take a standard sort of bean, Brazilian, Costa Rican, Nicaraguan, El Salfvador, Rawandan etc.. etc.. up to first and record the temperature (try to take it up to first no faster than 10 minutes and no slower than 13 minutes). If you guys then share your temperatures and the coffee roasted, plus the wattage shown when roasting, you will come up with numbers that might be all similar or might be all different. It will be interesting to see how roasters vary. Mine for example reaches 1st about 193-195C depending on the exact coffee. I have had others in for training who say theirs is 185 or something like that. So there certainly are differences.

 

Once you guys have shared that, you will have a better idea where your roaster is in relation to others....then the simple procedure is simply to program an offset into the bean mass controller (ewelly) to actually show the "corrected temperature" e.g. if your first is at 186C, then add 8C so your controller shows 194C

 

If you all did this, then you would be sharing a set of "normalised" readings and it would make more sense and be more useful.

 

@hasi It would also tell you more about where the other probe is in it's readings, as outside of the main bean mass things are quite different.

CFUK, the biggest, best and most friendly forum in the UK...with a wealth of knowledge among its many members.

 

 

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