Jump to content
IGNORED

Dalian Amazon Experiences


NAJB

Recommended Posts

So here i am, asking a question as i dont know what i dont know! I think I need to lower the two temperature controllers but thought I should run this past the experts first. Why do I think this? After putting through about 20 roasts of different beans and in different ambient conditions in the last few months, I am finding that I am mostly hitting 1st crack at around 180 degrees (Bean Temp) - sometimes as high as 185, but certainly well before the default setting of 195. So I am planning to lower both controllers by 5 degrees so that I can better control the ROR after first crack. (I also use the dampers to control but with the heating elements still on full power it is difficult to slow, therefore am thinking a lower max temp would also help with controlling ROR).

 

Is my thinking correct?

Should I lower the max temp even further?

 

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So here i am, asking a question as i dont know what i dont know! I think I need to lower the two temperature controllers but thought I should run this past the experts first. Why do I think this? After putting through about 20 roasts of different beans and in different ambient conditions in the last few months, I am finding that I am mostly hitting 1st crack at around 180 degrees (Bean Temp) - sometimes as high as 185, but certainly well before the default setting of 195. So I am planning to lower both controllers by 5 degrees so that I can better control the ROR after first crack. (I also use the dampers to control but with the heating elements still on full power it is difficult to slow, therefore am thinking a lower max temp would also help with controlling ROR).

 

Is my thinking correct?

Should I lower the max temp even further? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

 

 

 

  • What weight of beans are you roasting,
  • What is your mains voltage
  • What is the power draw of your roaster
  • What beans are you roasting
  • How long to 1st crack
  • Gap between 1st beginning and 2nd
  • Total roast time.
  • What exactly are you doing with air flow during the roast.
  • level of roast (dark medium light etc..)

 

I can't actually be bothered to write any more questions, except to say if you were trying to keep everything you were doing a secret, you would win 1st prize. Without some actual information, any advice is meaningless. Why not post up some roast logs

Edited by DavecUK

CFUK, the biggest, best and most friendly forum in the UK...with a wealth of knowledge among its many members.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok - clearly one of the things i didnt know that i didnt know was the need to provide more information. Below are my last two (handwritten) logs - hope they make sense. oh - these were two back-to-back roasts

 

Scan_20170808 (2).jpg

 

Note: the numbers in the Damper columns refer to the damper position, and the time at which they were moved to that position.

 

Voltage tends to be 238 to 241. Wattage draw between 2350 and 2410. I havent done the power mod.

 

I dont roast to 2nd crack.

 

Does this all help?

Scan_20170808.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well you certainly win the price for the smallest most illegible images you could post ...obviously don't want to make it easy for me. ;)

 

Before you do anything check that the controllers have no offsets or anything in them and are set up as I specified, this information should be in the documentation supplied with the roaster by BB.

 

 

  • Set roaster temp to 193 max and try values of 191 to 193 for different beans. leave the other one alone.
  • All thermometry may not read exactly the same 185 on yours might be my 190 or someone elses 187 etc...it's normal for roasters to have some variance
  • Anticipate the roast more, don't wait until it's happening to apply air...it's too late by then.

 

e.g. batch 7, you might start with cooling air at 2 and increase it BEFORE hand to slow it down. At 5 minutes (152) you knew you were rising at 6C per minute with 1st likely at 180 ish, but you waited 3 more minutes to start pulling extra air. This would have been fine if you wanted 1st at around 9m:50s. I would have been pulling extra air at the 5 minute mark or before as I calculate (in my head) the ROR in 20s intervals. When you moved the damper from 2 to 6 it was far too late.

 

The main problem with roasting is in failing anticipate. There are lots of clues with the roaster to tell you if it's going to fast...as experience has already told you the approximate temperature for your roaster where 1st crack begins. it can come at a slightly lower temperature when you force the roasts, so you might find slowing the roast down also brings 1st crack at a slightly higher temperature.

 

I may decide to run roasting courses on the roaster, still thinking about it after my test training session with @tuomI....if I do you might get some value from attending one.....

CFUK, the biggest, best and most friendly forum in the UK...with a wealth of knowledge among its many members.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RDC8, if you have time and get a chance to do a sess with Dave go for it, it'll open your eyes (at least it opened mine). With my limited (should really read 'no') experience I've noticed one shouldn't don't worry about hitting first at 195/185 or whatever temp anyone else tells you (Mine sits at, bean mass temp, 172-173 and 175-176 respectively for two beans I am currently roasting). Once you know your 1st crack temp for a certain bean play with the airflow and taste the results. This is the key i found (am still finding):

Davec - "The main problem with roasting is in failing anticipate"

Bar a couple of early horrors... the roasts on the Dalian have tasted great.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wahoo - looks like i am a roll here. Two prizes in a week from @DavecUK !!! Perhaps i need to buy a lottery ticket to complete the hat-trick :exit:

 

 

Anyway - i guess my main fear has been stalling the roast and therefore have not been opening the dampers too early. However, it seems i am being overcautious and will see what happens with the next few roasts when i start to increase air-low earlier.

 

These later roasts are much better than my earlier attempts - you dont want to see the logs from before starting the batch numbers!!! No total disasters, but definitely in the "could do better category".

@tuomI - did you lower your temperature controllers given that you are hitting 1st crack well before the default setting? or have you left them alone?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will just add that if your sure 1st pretty much starts at temp x on your roaster set the roast temp controller to that value e.g. if 1st always starts at 185, set it to 185 and play around from there....but always leave the other one alone.

 

There are ways I use the other t type controller when roasting, but that's far more advanced stuff and tells me a little about the effect I'm having with airflow during 1st...which can be fairly important for more nuanced roasting.

CFUK, the biggest, best and most friendly forum in the UK...with a wealth of knowledge among its many members.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RDC8, no I didn't change the temp setting, but I'll do that now as per Dave's suggestion. It'll probably be the last (for now.............) missing piece in getting to know the Dalian, always felt the roaster was a little too hot (having the roasting temp controller at 193-195)) for a first at 170-175.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I've now done a couple of roasting sessions with the roast temp at 175c(as that's my fc temp, or thereabouts) and it's working. I'd say now the roaster works as per the descriptions/roasting aides in the manuals. I am having to pull a lot less air through to slow down the roast, get a nice ror curve and duplicating a roast is not an issue. very pleased.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Hello,

 

 

i'm new in this forum.

I am a happy owner of a Dalian roaster in Fuerteventura Canary Islands.

purchase it at Bella Barista and it was quite a journey before reaching the Islands. But so far so good. Since in place, we are using it every day and make lovely fresh roasted coffee and customers love it.

I like to try a thermocouple to connect to phone or tablet to record profiles!

could someone's tell me watt bran/model and where to buy it.

 

 

thanks in advance and sorry for bad English

 

IMG_5970.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi @Michel

 

This setup looks great! Is the roaster visible from the customer perspective? or is it "out the back"?

 

Just to tease out your question .... why do you want to record your profiles on a tablet/laptop? How do you currently record them? What benefit(s) do you hope to gain? I am not wanting to talk you out of this, rather just to get you to consider the motivation behind it. Your Dalian should have come with a spare k-type thermocouple already installed- it is the cable that comes out from the front of the roaster with a small yellow plug on the end. You need to plug that into a meter, which will then output the readings via a USB connection to your tablet/laptop. Open source software called Artisan is widely used to log the data. You may have also read either in other threads or in the user manual, that this k-type probe is placed differently in the roaster so wont give you the same readings as you will get from the digital displays on the control panel. If you want accurate bean-mass readings then it is recommended that you swap the probe connections. However, this is beyond my experience so someone else will need to help you through this.

 

As for me, I dont use a data logger, rather I hand record the temperature progression and other key events (sample roasting log posted a few months ago on this thread). This is so I can refer back to a particular profile for a given bean which resulted in a great tasting coffee

 

However, I have just come across an app (Android) called Coffee Roaster. I have run a few "test" roasts using my hand written logs for the data and it certainly looks like it has some good potential. It doesn't connect to a thermocouple ... but it does allow for the user to record the temperature progress and other key events in a digital format, which can then be exported to other software. Maybe there are others on the forum who have used this app to record their roasts???

 

Sorry this is a bit of a ramble - but hope it helps

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi RDC8,

 

 

yes it is visible to the customers. Really stylish and new in the island.

i like to record by computer because I don't have much time to do by hand as customers a continually coming in and out. I give 100% attention after 1st crack.

i like to keep data on easy way. I enderstand the data are not the sames, but if it's constant I can keep as a profile for me.

 

so it's a meter that I need?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Michel,

The Android app that RDC8 referred to can be found here:

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?41224-Android-roast-log-app

 

I have trialled it and like it. I feel that it is probably more suited to a Tablet rather than a Smartphone. It uses English, but hopefully you will manage OK once you have explored and done some 'dummy' roasts to get the feel.

 

Best.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi RDC8,

 

so it's a meter that I need?

 

Hi @Michel. Yes - you need a multimeter with a USB connection, and also the software on your laptop/tablet. I'm not sure of the what type/brand ... but @DavecUK might be able to provide some advice here.

 

You are right in that consistency of temp monitoring is more important than actual temp when recording/building profiles.

 

Good luck with this

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Michel,

You may find this link and the contained links within, useful.

 

If you explore the links, you should find in most cases the software writers recommend various pieces of hardware that work well with their programs.

 

https://thinkingcoffee.wordpress.com/2014/11/20/coffee-software/

 

Best.

 

Ps. The Roast Logger link in the above seems to be out of date.

This one works at present.

http://roastlogger.co.uk/coffee/roastlogger/roastlogger.htm

Click button for 'Input devices'

Edited by Batian
Ps.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi @Michel. Yes - you need a multimeter with a USB connection, and also the software on your laptop/tablet. I'm not sure of the what type/brand ... but @DavecUK might be able to provide some advice here.

 

You are right in that consistency of temp monitoring is more important than actual temp when recording/building profiles.

 

Good luck with this

 

thank you

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Michel,

You may find this link and the contained links within, useful.

 

If you explore the links, you should find in most cases the software writers recommend various pieces of hardware that work well with their programs.

 

https://thinkingcoffee.wordpress.com/2014/11/20/coffee-software/

 

Best.

 

Ps. The Roast Logger link in the above seems to be out of date.

This one works at present.

http://roastlogger.co.uk/coffee/roastlogger/roastlogger.htm

Click button for 'Input devices'

 

thank you Batian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Further Ps.

 

As RDC8 points out above, you should have had a spare thermocouple supplied with your roaster by Bella Barista. If you are not using this one, check here :https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?26651-It-s-that-time-of-year-again-New-Roaster-coming-on-test/page22

for clearance measurements within the drum and/or contact DaveC on this forum to be certain.

 

Re reading the thread referred to above, it would seem this is covered in the 42 page guide that should have been supplied with your roaster. It would also seem some customers found they did not have the correct documents sent with the roaster.

Please see the post on this page:

https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?26651-It-s-that-time-of-year-again-New-Roaster-coming-on-test/page21

If you did not get those three documents, you need to contact Bella Barista immediately. I am sure they will be able to help you.

 

(apologies to others---as the querry is from someone who has English as a second language, I am trying to give as much info as possible so he can avoid trouble)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...