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Dalian Amazon Experiences


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7 hours ago, Rob1 said:

I've been really impressed with the quality of the roasts from the Dalian. The seasoning roast took balls to take 1.2kg coffee through second crack until a fire was imminent but the control was impressive and there wasn't any chipping to the beans and as it progressed there was no sign of scorching or tipping despite the high temperature and speed of the roast. 13 minutes in total.

One thing I will say is airflow was low with the supplied hose and I would need to double the damper settings from Dave's guide to get the desired effect.

I'm thinking of getting a smaller cyclone to filter the smoke with water. The "Vortxkleanair" is an incredibly expensive water cyclone that cleans much of the smoke output of the roaster. I'm thinking you could very easily make one yourself with very little expense. My only concern is messing up the airflow. 

Don't know if you're running Phidgets Rob - but if you are - it's fairly easy to attach a differential air pressure 1136 sensor to a VINT hub and get an accurate reading of ones airflow, or connect it to a Magnehelic..

Cheers Phil

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2 hours ago, Beeroclock said:

Don't know if you're running Phidgets Rob - but if you are - it's fairly easy to attach a differential air pressure 1136 sensor to a VINT hub and get an accurate reading of ones airflow, or connect it to a Magnehelic..

Cheers Phil

Thanks, had a look at it but the active-robots page has this warning: "This sensor is designed to measure the pressure of clean, non-condensing air. Contact with moist air (i.e, human breath), dusty air, or other gases can damage the sensor."

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Hi Rob 

remember you’re measuring negative air pressure in the drum, but I’ve installed a cheap fuel filter in the path to be sure.

1651BBDF-3B5A-4AD3-B90D-75211F6784CB.thumb.jpeg.04661581c615ca1d5dd613931e550179.jpeg

There are a number of people over on HB who have installed these..

I recently redid my exhaust flue and installed twin wall stainless steel flue straight run up and out through a flat roof. 
This really helped me to judge how my airflow was affected.

It’s also handy to see what’s happening when roasting on a windy day. How is one’s exhaust being affected? I was definitely getting a backdraft issue on occasions. Now have a proper Swedish Cowl - much more stable.46391DB4-2426-44C7-9968-7657DF1B6470.thumb.jpeg.b10d10e8e483779a01971e5a9eeb0e84.jpeg

 

Cheers Phil

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I don't think I'd need another fan at all. Could either modify the existing cyclone with spray nozzles and a water pump with simple circulation and mesh filtration in place or I could get a small plastic cyclone and just vent to that instead of outside, allowing the smoke to slowly release outside as it's scrubbed. The vortx seems to be able to work either as a cyclone with a fan installed or after a fan with just flue. The existing cyclone looks like it's just bolted on to a chaff collection drawer so if it comes off that it could easily sit in a bucket with a hole cut in it for the water circulation. Worst case scenario, it doesn't work and I waste about £100 on parts and have to plug a few small holes on the cyclone with bolts. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Having some issues roasting a natural Brasil (one key not working on keyboard - guess which one!!!) so could do with your collective wisdom. It's not my first natural from brasil, but can't seem to get on top of this one. Could do with learning from other Dalian users who have experience with roasting low-grown naturals

Problem is with charring the chaff/silver-skin. The beans themselves are fine, its just the silverskin/chaff remaining on the bean.

started with a medium charge temp and kept the RoR down - but it took 13 minutes to get to 1st, dropped at 16:33, with weight loss of 15.8%. Killed power completely about 45 seconds into 1st and just coasted the rest of the way. Tasted baked.

So next batch charged higher to get the momentum going, but started pulling more air earlier. Got to first at 10:48 and dropped at 14:00. (23% in the third phase,drop temp 221, weight loss 16.1%)

Third batch, dropped the charge temp, but kept more heat in the roaster. Hit 1st at 9:39 and dropped at 12:27 (22% in third phase, drop temp 219, weight loss 16.2%)

Charge weight of all batches is 1kg

I don't have a roast colour analyser device so cant give any insights there.

I'm aiming for a dark-medium roast to avoid under-development.

In all cases there is noticeable scorching/charring on the silverskin which doesnt want to come away from the bean (unlike a natural Uganda that I have which sheds its chaff willingly!)

The taste of the second roast is ok'sh,  - havent cupped the last roast yet.

Any ideas on how to avoid the scorching would be appreciated

Thanks

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@RDC8If you have a bean where the chaff is reluctant to come off....even with the "rougher" perforated drum of the Dalian, you can try:

  • Find the chaff release temperature for the bean
  • Ramp it reasonably quickly to that temperature (not too fast) then go slower using more air, so it ramps slower through that zone
  • Pick up the pace again to first, ensuring enough air is being pulled to clear chaff, be careful not to use too much element power, so the chaff can fall off before scorching.

This might give you the extra time during that phase to rub more of the chaff off. I have assumed that you have done the power control modification. Reducing the radiant heat to the beans whilst lowering airflow slightly to maintain the rate of rise can often help with chaff scorching....In fact rather than the strategy above, all you may need to do is reduce power by a few 100W and reduce airflow to maintain the profile.

Edited by DavecUK
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CFUK, the biggest, best and most friendly forum in the UK...with a wealth of knowledge among its many members.

 

 

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Hi Rodney

 

did my first roast of the Brazil today - I basically used the same profile as the Bom Jesus, but it will need a tweek as I was slightly off with my "gas dip". It's easy charr the seams of Brazil if you're carrying too much heat. The Bom Jesus (love that bean) is a little more forgiving than some as perhaps due to it's slightly higher altitude.

This Brazil Furnas will probably have a little more "fruit" than the Bom Jesus and did doesn't roast as even.

Anyway here's my profile - I tend to soak my low grown naturals for a 1 to 1 1/2 mins with low air and then let the beans absorb the heat from the drum - I also charge 15 to 10 degrees lower. But after soak I give the beans a good wack of heat, but make sure I'm bringing this down before dry end. 

I'm also attaching a picture of the beans - but the light was not daylight balanced..

I also did my first batch of the Colombia Manos Juntas - roasted really nicely - I have high hope for that one, Mill City cupped it at 89.25

 

1634296994_BrazilFurnas750201220roast01.thumb.png.c6e9c588eeab8ef429ff4eb422d76f74.png

 

Brazil_Furnas.thumb.jpg.fe134d11b24f266db9b209e10b99cf2b.jpg

 

cheers Phil

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

Edited by Beeroclock
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Put through another batch this afternoon at an even lower charge temp. Much happier with the result; no scorching in the seams, and significantly reduced charring of the silverskin. Still not all coming off completely - I dont have the power mod @DavecUK - maybe i need to consider just doing it!

Profile below @Beeroclock; remarkably similar to yours Phil, though an earlier  and lower TP which is probably down to you being able to do the "soak" (not sure if that is translatable to the Dalian). I still need to tame that small flick just after 1st. (Also just installed a second probe inside the drum to measure ET)

Just need to cup this roast tomorrow/tuesday and then try it as an espresso after Christmas to see how it compares.

Haven't tried the Colombian yet - leaving that until the new year! Glad to hear it roasted well for you.

 

Furnas profile.jpg

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Hi @RDC8 Rodney, Very interesting and thanks for posting the profile.  Do you have a power saving module so you know how many watts you are drawing? Means I can take a look at what you've done and compare for myself. Am picking up the Brazilian from Phil on Wednesday so will be able to do some testing myself.

Please let us know how the cupping goes.

Phil.

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That profile looks much better Rodney. You should definitely get on with adding the power control mod, It’s always better to control ROR with heat first if you can. Should also help with your between batch protocol. 

One thing I was going to ask you is what you’re doing with your environmental temp now that it’s a lot cooler? I’ve started measuring out my loads the day before and bringing them out of the garage into the house - so they’re 18c when they get charged. Also make sure that the garage is warm before roasting, with a fan heater. Pointed in the direct of the roaster. That way the air being drawn in is warmer.

cheers Phil

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@Dartmoor Coffee - I don't have the power mod. But I do have the roaster plugged into a meter so that I can keep an eye on the wattage. It's not something I currently record, but the draw tends to fluctuate between 2250w and 2350w. It has on the odd occasion dropped closer to the 2200 point, but I don't recall it every dropping below 2200.

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@Beeroclock - interesting question about roasting in the colder environment. It has certainly been a challenge! First week in December I was roasting in temperatures of around 3.5c, although it has been quite a bit warmer this week (up around 10c in my shed). As I'm currently pretty much roasting to order I don't have a lot of advance notice for bringing greens into the house to warm up. 

My approach has been to increase the charge temp by around 5-10c to compensate for the colder beans - this was suggested to me by another "pro" roaster. Most of my beans seem to cope with the extra heat - except for this Brazil Furnas!

I do like the idea of aiming a fan heater at the roaster to warm up the air being drawn in, although with only a single power cable running to the shed I'm a bit reluctant to put another high-load device on the same circuit. I guess there's no harm in trying. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Put through another batch this afternoon at an even lower charge temp. Much happier with the result; no scorching in the seams, and significantly reduced charring of the silverskin. Still not all coming off completely - I dont have the power mod @DavecUK - maybe i need to consider just doing it!
Profile below @Beeroclock; remarkably similar to yours Phil, though an earlier  and lower TP which is probably down to you being able to do the "soak" (not sure if that is translatable to the Dalian). I still need to tame that small flick just after 1st. (Also just installed a second probe inside the drum to measure ET)
Just need to cup this roast tomorrow/tuesday and then try it as an espresso after Christmas to see how it compares.
Haven't tried the Colombian yet - leaving that until the new year! Glad to hear it roasted well for you.
 
389202348_Furnasprofile.thumb.jpg.5e5142e519db1f28d3705f60cd6fa11b.jpg
Quick question for you, how do you get the SD and CA adjustments to show up stepped? When I adjust mine and log it, they all just show at the bottom of the screen in a line. Equally tagging them to the temp line seems a good idea as well.

I'm guessing its in events but I'm missing what I need to click.

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Hi, just after some advice about connecting my Dalian Amazon up to Artisan (or any progs you might recommend for logging)

There is a probe coming out of the roaster situated next to the main temp gauge dial on and gives an accurate air temp reading on a grey Blue Therm Duo unit rather than the red RHS display. Images attached.

Do I simply need a USB lead  to connect from the the Blue Therm (2nd pic) into my Mac? I tried this once but Artisan didn't seem to recognise it? Im.pretty sure the probe part is correct but perhaps I need to plug the probe into a different bit of kit?

 

Many thanks

 

 

 

IMG_20201125_180553.jpg

IMG_20201125_180607.jpg

IMG_20201125_180544.jpg

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2 hours ago, Ted_Kent said:

Quick question for you, how do you get the SD and CA adjustments to show up stepped? When I adjust mine and log it, they all just show at the bottom of the screen in a line. Equally tagging them to the temp line seems a good idea as well.

I'm guessing its in events but I'm missing what I need to click.
 

I eventually got there through trial and error - showing my events settings below:

So, yes CA and SD are set up as events and set the Markers option to step+. Then I have 4 buttons to mark each of the CA/CD events: single increase/decrease and double increase/decrease (ie pulling out/pushing in one/two cm at a time). So each of the buttons adds/subtracts 1 or 2 from the current "event" value.

I have also set up the CA and SD events as sliders so that I can quickly re-set the starting values before each roast.

And finally the annotation script to show the value of each event when it happens.

Hope this makes sense

As I said, trial and error to get to this point so if anyone else has found a better way to do this then please chime in. 

Also - I set the minimum of the Y axis to 70 - not sure if this has mode a difference or not.

 

And

 

events config.png

events config.png

events sliders.png

events annotations.png

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I eventually got there through trial and error - showing my events settings below:
So, yes CA and SD are set up as events and set the Markers option to step+. Then I have 4 buttons to mark each of the CA/CD events: single increase/decrease and double increase/decrease (ie pulling out/pushing in one/two cm at a time). So each of the buttons adds/subtracts 1 or 2 from the current "event" value.
I have also set up the CA and SD events as sliders so that I can quickly re-set the starting values before each roast.
And finally the annotation script to show the value of each event when it happens.
Hope this makes sense
As I said, trial and error to get to this point so if anyone else has found a better way to do this then please chime in. 
Also - I set the minimum of the Y axis to 70 - not sure if this has mode a difference or not.
 
And
 
1403165714_eventsconfig.thumb.png.fa63b73de9a8dea2f268eff88f947207.png
401778688_eventsconfig.thumb.png.f79dcdda2f765ac4b59d9a5433c52243.png
1005042317_eventssliders.thumb.png.169b13c89f11ae13e0e358e88a486dd5.png
836876172_eventsannotations.thumb.png.0f376ce35cbc7427b872eaa0ef45b1c1.png
Makes sense to me, appreciate your time to explain that and supply screenshots.

I have set up CA/SD 0-9 buttons but they take up quite a bit of space, i like the idea of your button setup. I have also set up a slider for the power mod 0-24, 0 being off and 24 being 2400w.

Great bit of software artisan, I've tried to learn as much as possible but it something I feel that I will never learn properly.
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Thought it might be useful to show the screen layout that I am working with.

I recently set the button sie to "Tiny" but I think I will need to change it back. I am using a touch screen laptop and my fat fingers tend to hit the wrong button!

Oh, and when the "start" is pressed the default buttons will show (charge, dry-end,etc)

roast screen.png

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