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RichD1

Silvia prices

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Looking for my first set up and the Gaggia Classic and Rancilio Silvia seem to be the two machines that keep coming up as good first machines.

 

But when looking at prices how can Caffe Italia sell the Silvia for £349 when Bella Barista are charging £449 and Amazon £515.

 

I've heard that customer service is not too good with Caffe Italia a few years back, but £100 cheaper and a 2 year warranty is pretty compelling.

 

Where would you buy your Silvia?

 

Richard

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I bought mine from Myespresso about this time last year for $355. Bella Barista and Amazon we significantly more expensive at the time. I've had no issues with the Silvia

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Here is a simple solution to your quandary . I wouldn't buy a new Silvia at all . Save , buy something that's temp stable . Even at £350 it just price v functionality ( producing a consistent temp ) isn't there for me .

And if you have read all the feedback about caffe italia and you still think it's worth the risk , then by all means buy one and pray you never have to talk to em again about anything wrong with the order or machine .


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I'm not sure what else is out there at that price point that doesn't have the same issues. Its actually a pretty good quality machine, but you have to either mod it with a PID or get used to temperature surfing with your fingers crossed. And the steaming is a pain too.

 

Personally, I'd never go back to a machine of that type. I'd just stump up the extra 500 quid or so for something that isn't going to be such a pain in the arse.

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I agree - having had one I wouldn't again and that's not to say it's not a good machine producing good coffee because it does but as mentioned above it's incredibly temperature unstable and without a PID takes the fun out making the coffee.

For the budget I'd consider looking at something better but used from the forum - take for example the Fracino/Mignon combo that's currently for sale at £600. Job done!


A machine, a grinder & some beans

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Thanks for the feedback Guys. I had started to wonder why Gaggia and Rancilio hadn't introduced a PID version of the Classic or Silvia especially as Sage offers the BE with it fitted. I realise that Sage isn't in the same league as the previously mentioned manufacturers but with all the discussion on the forums about PID I would have thought they would have done something about it.

 

OK, need to rethink my strategy then.

 

Richard

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Thanks for the feedback Guys. I had started to wonder why Gaggia and Rancilio hadn't introduced a PID version of the Classic or Silvia especially as Sage offers the BE with it fitted. I realise that Sage isn't in the same league as the previously mentioned manufacturers but with all the discussion on the forums about PID I would have thought they would have done something about it.

 

OK, need to rethink my strategy then.

 

Richard

 

Not sure what you mean by Sage not being "in the same league " as Gaggia or Silva. My Duo Temp Pro does everything a Silva does, but has pre infusion, actual temperature control and steams better from what I hear. The Silva loses in every category except it has easily replaceable parts so you can fix it.

 

Don't compare with the Barista Express, any machine with a built in grinder is going to have problems.

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@RichD1 it's along time since gaggia were a man Italian coffee machine manufacturer .....

A Silvia boasts of being made of commercial parts , you know apart form the bit that controls the water temp .


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

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Sorry, no dis-service intended, I was repeating what I had read on the various forums recently. I think it is the longevity of the product which has been questioned and as you say the others have spares readily available.

 

To be honest it was the Sage range that got me interested several years back when they first launched. With the features you state + PID it is very interesting.

 

How long have you had your DTP? Any issues?

 

Richard

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A Silvia boasts of being made of commercial parts , you know apart form the bit that controls the water temp .

it is called a small boiler :)

but the parts are really nice quality and with a PID and decent grinder, Silvia makes a very good espresso

not trying to contradict what other guys said based on more experience..


The peculiarity of espresso beverage is the simultaneous presence of three dispersed phases coexisting within a matrix, namely a concentrated solution of salts, acids, sugars, caffeine and many other hydrophilic substances. These phases are: an emulsion of oil droplets, a suspension of solid particles and an effervescence of gas bubbles, which evolves into a foam.

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it is called a small boiler :)

but the parts are really nice quality and with a PID and decent grinder, Silvia makes a very good espresso

not trying to contradict what other guys said based on more experience..

 

New silvia plus pid= close to £600? Value for money ? Hmmm. Negated warranty ? Boiler auto fill ?

Some Parts are nice , the cheap ass temp management system isn't . We are on what v4 or 5 now and rancillo can't or won't think of a better temp System. Lazy lazy manufacturing .


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

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Sorry, no dis-service intended, I was repeating what I had read on the various forums recently. I think it is the longevity of the product which has been questioned and as you say the others have spares readily available.

 

To be honest it was the Sage range that got me interested several years back when they first launched. With the features you state + PID it is very interesting.

 

How long have you had your DTP? Any issues?

 

Richard

 

Don't worry, I didn't take it personally, but I didn't want you to make a poor decision based on a generalisation that could be inaccurate.

 

There is no doubt that Sage machines are not made to be altered or fixed easily, so if that's important to you, then fair enough.

 

Based only on what happens on this forum, I think the Duo Temp Pros seem to be trouble free and don't break. The more complicated ones that include grinders and pressure gauges and other gubbins have had a few posts here where things have gone wrong. So far, this has been the case with my machine that has worked fine for a year. I've been really happy with it.

 

That's the disadvantage with the Sage, but there are tons of advantages. It comes with quality versions of many of the extras you will need, like quality baskets, milk pitcher and a blind basket.

 

Hope this helps you

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I guess the difference is existing stock imported pre vote vs new stock brought in since the exchange rate bombed.

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And the steaming is a pain too.

 

What makes you say that? I'm only asking because that hasn't been my experience, but I could be missing something, not being any kind of expert and all

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Personally I would always buy a machine from Bella Barista as they are experts on the products they sell and possess the knowledge/skill to offer suberb after sales back up. Well worth paying a bit xtra for that


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Just for my 2 penn'orth @RichD1 the Silvia is just fine with or without a PID (you have to faff with temp surfing without, but that's just a knack & once learnt, you're easily making decent espresso) I have one with a mecoffee PID, gets used every day for espresso and milk drinks, it's a perfectly decent machine & much more sturdily built than the sage range.

 

Having said that, I wouldn't buy one new (that goes double for Sage). I would be looking for a second hand Silvia at half price - they're excellent value at that. By the way, something that's rarely mentioned is the temp fluctuation of the classic - correct me if I'm wrong guys, but isn't that still more pronounced?

 

If you're thinking of spending that kind of money, I'd jump up a bracket, to be honest & buy second hand.


esto tambien pasara.

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By the way, something that's rarely mentioned is the temp fluctuation of the classic - correct me if I'm wrong guys, but isn't that still more pronounced?

 

When drawing 60ml through the group measured with a thermocouple in the filter basket on top of the puck the temp drops by

8 degrees on a gaggia classic

2 degrees on a rancillio silvia

 

I have the graphs somewhere if this is disputed

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When drawing 60ml through the group measured with a thermocouple in the filter basket on top of the puck the temp drops by

8 degrees on a gaggia classic

2 degrees on a rancillio silvia

 

I have the graphs somewhere if this is disputed

 

We have done this before . How do you know where in the temp surfing cycling . It's dropping two degrees but form where each time ?


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

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We have done this before . How do you know where in the temp surfing cycling .

 

if we've done this before then you should know

 

So, just to refresh your memory

 

No attempt at temp surfing was done.

 

The test was conducted purely to see what drop in temperature was measured on each respective machine irrespective of whereabouts they were when they had reached what is considered operating temperature.

 

It could have been at the lowest point or the hottest point or anywhere in between seeing as no attempt at temp surfing was conducted when both machines had been on for long enough.

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if we've done this before then you should know

 

So, just to refresh your memory

 

No attempt at temp surfing was done.

 

The test was conducted purely to see what drop in temperature was measured on each respective machine irrespective of whereabouts they were when they had reached what is considered operating temperature.

 

It could have been at the lowest point or the hottest point or anywhere in between seeing as no attempt at temp surfing was conducted when both machines had been on for long enough.

 

And that's kinda my point . 2 degreer

Drop off 88c will make any coffee suck . The dead band in the thermostat means it's really hard and a faff to make consistent espresso ( again based on using one for 6 months ) For the money that a new one costs I'd be looking at something else .


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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Posts #1 #7 #19 make interesting reading for anyone considering a silvia.

 

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?23822-Oh-Dear&highlight=dear

 

I think that guy was treading a path all on his own .


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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And that's kinda my point . 2 degreer

Drop off 88c will make any coffee suck . The dead band in the thermostat means it's really hard and a faff to make consistent espresso ( again based on using one for 6 months ) For the money that a new one costs I'd be looking at something else .

 

Suck is a bit fierce Boots... that would make classics sucky x 4 - sure there are plenty who are more than happy with them tho - do we know how the dead band compares on the 2 unmodded machines?


esto tambien pasara.

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Suck is a bit fierce Boots... that would make classics sucky x 4 - sure there are plenty who are more than happy with them tho - do we know how the dead band compares on the 2 unmodded machines?

I wasn't saying your machine sucks , i was saying any espresso brewed at 86-88 is gonna suck .

The potential to brew at these temperatures is more pronounced with a machine that you have to temp surf , thats the draw back , you dont know what temp you are at ...It may be more acceptable with a darker roasted coffee which is easier to extract . That's why you tend to find people finding it easier to dial in those darker roasted coffee on this type of gear , under extract it with a lower temp and its slight more palatable than a fruit forward under extracted espresso .......

It would not cost a company like Rancillo alot to git a better tip manangement system , they just don't seem to think it's important ( they dont apply this to commercial machines btw ... )


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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