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I'm sure you will have loads of fun playing with all the settings. Loads of useful information about to get the best from this machine. My best upgrade so far has to be a better tamper. Have fun!


Sage Dual Boiler. Baratza 270. Sage Smart Grinder Pro. 18g Vst ridgeless. Motta Competition Tamper 58.4mm. Aeropress.

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I'm buzzing today too but it's more because I've made six coffees so far today :-)

 

Fantastic...


Currently drinking: Casa Espresso Charlestown v2 Espresso Roast. Marvelous!

 

Sage Dual Boiler | Smart Grinder Pro | 58mm Naked Portafilter | VST 18g Ridged | Bialetti French Press | Bialetti Moka Stovetops | CuisineArt DGB-600 Grind and Brew Thermal!

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Anddd I'm in, a moment of madness in John Lewis earlier led to me arriving home with the Dual Boiler! Only really set it up and pulled one shot so far, but it was instantly better than my Classic! Could taste so much more depth in the shot, really impressed seeing as I haven't played with any settings yet :)

 

Adam

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New DB owner checking in. Bought mine from MatBat - set mine up last night. More of a match for my Super Jolly than my Gaggia Classic.

 

sage DB.jpg

 

 

Two quick Qs:

 

- What after market tamper are people using? Do you need 58.4mm for a better fit than the stock one? (I have another 58mm too that isnt a perfect fit)

 

- More leftfield - I have a naked PF from my Classic - it seems to fit though havent put coffee in it - has anybody done the same?

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New DB owner checking in. Bought mine from MatBat - set mine up last night. More of a match for my Super Jolly than my Gaggia Classic.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]27880[/ATTACH]

 

 

Two quick Qs:

 

- What after market tamper are people using? Do you need 58.4mm for a better fit than the stock one? (I have another 58mm too that isnt a perfect fit)

 

- More leftfield - I have a naked PF from my Classic - it seems to fit though havent put coffee in it - has anybody done the same?

 

Mine has a static pressure of 10.5 bar

Has anyone either reduced the brew pressure through the opv?

Or disabled the brew cut out switch engaged by the hot water switch to alter brew pressure ?

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Mine has a static pressure of 10.5 bar

Has anyone either reduced the brew pressure through the opv?

Or disabled the brew cut out switch engaged by the hot water switch to alter brew pressure ?

 

You can find plenty of info throughout the forums. The quick answers are:

 

1. 58.4 tamper works a treat.

2. Classic naked PF does work just doesn't line up straight. Just make sure it's locked in good and proper.

3. You can reduce the brew pressure by setting the preinfusion time to 60 secs and lower the pump pressure percentage to whatever you want. All available in the manual.


Currently running a Gaggia Classic with Rancillio wand upgrade looking to move onto a Silvia in the near future! Looking for a budget grinder to go with

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You can find plenty of info throughout the forums. The quick answers are:

 

3. You can reduce the brew pressure by setting the preinfusion time to 60 secs and lower the pump pressure percentage to whatever you want. All available in the manual.

 

 

Thanks but this would not give me the degree of control over pressure (profile) during the shot that i would like to play around with -theres a related discussion above

I have overnight disconnected the internal water / brew micro cut out switch , and now pressure is completely controllable / infinity variable throughout the entire shot

But of course as good as this machine is , this may just mean this isn't the right machine for me.

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So I've had my Sage DB since October 2014 and no issues until recently. Hence I've hardly been in the forum I've just been too busy just drinking coffee and not obsessing about the machines, which is nice :)

 

Anyway recently I've had the pressure gauge and LCD start to condense up, a little leak from under the control area beneath the on switch, and then the steam boiler is overheating.....it just gets hotter and hotter, then steam comes out the release valve into the drip tray, starts to sound weird and I switch it off. It takes an age to then cool down.

 

I contacted Lakeland and then sage who basically sent me back instructions to descale, saying in UK they would recommend doing it every 4-6 weeks. that seems a bit excessive, but then again I've followed the messages on the lcd and look where I've ended up.

 

Does it sound right to you guys that all this needs is a descale? Seems almost too simple. Not done it yet as I ran out of puly caff descaler, just waiting for more to arrive.

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I don't de-scale that often. Probably every 3 months. It depends what water is going in it.


Sage DB; Mazzer Major; VST 15g, 18g & 20g Baskets;TORR Trapez & Perger Tamper

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Any opinion on more frequently back flushing sage DB with powder detergent?

Im used to back flushing my old gaggia with puly, daily

I back flush sage with just water daily

Seems odd to wait for machine to add the sage tablet ( 200 shots?)

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I think daily is perhaps too often but that 200 shots is too many. I generally do it about once a week with quite light usage. I don't have any facts or references to back that up, just my thoughts and way I do it...


Everything my heart could desire (more or less). . .

 

https://cupperjoe.com

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Does anyone know the length of the screw that goes through the centre of the shower screen in to the group head on a Sage Dual boiler?

Mine has sheared off in the GH and I’m just out of warranty, so looking to drill it out of the group head and replace with my own. Thanks. 

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Hi all,

I'm obviously late to the party as I see most posts are 2 or 3 years old, but I've only just bought a Sage DB and keen to get the most out of it. Graduating from a Gaggia Classic that ran almost daily for about 20 years; probably could, and may well, tinker with it to get it working properly again, but I've been hankering for the Sage for a year or two and while in the UK a couple of weeks back (I live in France) I finally took the plunge. Loving it so far but haven't changed settings very much, partly because I don't find the manual* very clear about adjusting shot length and volume. I rang Sage Customer Support and the person I spoke too wasn't clear either and said she'd get back to me, but nothing so far. So I'd be grateful if someone would confirm what I think must be the case: You can set both the length of time  a shot takes to go through, as well as the quantity of liquid that results, by using the procedure on p.11 of the manual - Shot Duration and Shot Volume. You then set which of these the machine acts on in the advance settings (FLo or SEc) for Volumetric Control on p.15. Is this correct, and does the machine ignore any duration setting if Volumetric Control is set to FLo, and vice versa? If that is the case, am I correct in thinking that there isn't a way to operate both duration and volume in tandem, eg to extract a specific shot volume in a short time or a longer time? If you can do the latter, then what is the function of the FLo or SEc advanced setting? Need to get my head round this!

And one other question (for now!): The Gaggia stopped working properly months ago and we've been using a cafetiere with packeted ground coffee. Now we have the new machine we're back to grinding ourselves for each brew, but we've been using up coffee beans that are months past their BB date. When we made our very first shots I used the single wall filter and the result was very disappointing and I noticed the pressure gauge hardly moved. Noting that they recommend using the double wall filter for pre-ground coffee, I figured our stale beans, even though freshly ground, would have more characteristics in common with  pre-ground, so I switched to the double wall filter and the results immediately improved. (I also switched to the finest setting on my grinder, a Krups.) Yet I notice that the pressure still doesn't get beyond 7-8; I've yet to see a full 9 bar extraction. Am I right in assuming this will change when I get hold of some fresh roasted beans?

All for now. Grateful for any advice.

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* I forgot to add my footnote on the manual, and now I can't see a means of editing my previous post so am adding here. One of the things that surprises me about the Sage DB is the paucity of the manual that comes with it. They refer to it as a "Quick Guide" and that's exactly what it is and it provides the essentials. But with a machine of this quality I expected something more substantial to be available, at least online, but an enquiry to Customer Services drew a blank. Obviously I've picked up a fair few tips reading in this forum, but if anyone knows of a more comprehensive and systematic guide to this machine it would be great to share a link.

Aha! I see there's an "edit" link on this one! Is it on a timer? Or not available on a first post???

Edited by nickdc
Additional comment.

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hi Nick, I edited and numbered for simplicity. 

19 hours ago, nickdc said:

You can set both the length of time  a shot takes to go through, as well as the quantity of liquid that results, by using the procedure on p.11 of the manual - Shot Duration and Shot Volume. You then set which of these the machine acts on in the advance settings (FLo or SEc) for Volumetric Control on p.15.

1. Is this correct, and does the machine ignore any duration setting if Volumetric Control is set to FLo, and vice versa?

if that is the case,

2. am I correct in thinking that there isn't a way to operate both duration and volume in tandem, eg to extract a specific shot volume in a short time or a longer time? If you can do the latter, then what is the function of the FLo or SEc advanced setting? 

And one other question (for now!): The Gaggia stopped working properly months ago and we've been using a cafetiere with packeted ground coffee. Now we have the new machine we're back to grinding ourselves for each brew, but we've been using up coffee beans that are months past their BB date. When we made our very first shots I used the single wall filter and the result was very disappointing and I noticed the pressure gauge hardly moved. Noting that they recommend using the double wall filter for pre-ground coffee, I figured our stale beans, even though freshly ground, would have more characteristics in common with  pre-ground, so I switched to the double wall filter and the results immediately improved. (I also switched to the finest setting on my grinder, a Krups.)

3. Yet I notice that the pressure still doesn't get beyond 7-8; I've yet to see a full 9 bar extraction. Am I right in assuming this will change when I get hold of some fresh roasted beans?

All for now. Grateful for any advice.

1. As far as I'm aware you set either duration or volume, their is no point in trying to set both. That said, in my opinion there is also no point in setting duration. Try to use time as a bit of a guide but the amount of drink you make is the best guide IMO. I use manual button every time fwiw. 

Get yourself a look at the beginners weighing espresso thread, will try to find it in a moment and get some scales and try that. 

2. Yes, you cannot do both. From what i know only a very advanced control could try to give you a specific volume in a set time, as it would control the flow depending on the resistance from the coffee puck. 

3. Perhaps 🙂. It is most likely due to the combination of stale beans and a relatively entry level grinder for espresso grinding. Now that you've got the Sage DB if funds allow, you may wish to consider upgrading the grinder next and you'll likely find loads of temptations if you look around the forum long enough from a little more expensive to well a LOT MORE and everything in between. That pressure gauge is more of a guide though, as 9 bar doesn't hold any magic. How's the coffee tasting? 

Edited by jlarkin

Everything my heart could desire (more or less). . .

 

https://cupperjoe.com

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27 minutes ago, nickdc said:

* I forgot to add my footnote on the manual, and now I can't see a means of editing my previous post so am adding here. One of the things that surprises me about the Sage DB is the paucity of the manual that comes with it. They refer to it as a "Quick Guide" and that's exactly what it is and it provides the essentials. But with a machine of this quality I expected something more substantial to be available, at least online, but an enquiry to Customer Services drew a blank. Obviously I've picked up a fair few tips reading in this forum, but if anyone knows of a more comprehensive and systematic guide to this machine it would be great to share a link.

Aha! I see there's an "edit" link on this one! Is it on a timer? Or not available on a first post???

Think Edit option is time based, I can't recall how long but it's a somewhat short time before it's stopped if I remember correctly. 


Everything my heart could desire (more or less). . .

 

https://cupperjoe.com

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LOL I think they feel who ever buys it is into serious coffee and has some idea what they are doing. In real terms it's a rather advanced dual boiler machine. They cover the settings that are available well and it would be rather difficult for them to cover brewing counting for what some one might choose to do.

Maybe the guide differs in different countries. The UK one can be downloaded here under support page numbers run up to 33.

https://www.sageappliances.com/uk/en/products/espresso/bes920.html

Tried the French site and the manual is in English.

There is a little section on brewing that just mentions time. If like other Sage machines it mentioned ratio of grams of grinds in to weight of shot out it would probably be 3 not the usual 2. I'm glad of that actually as it encourage me to vary the ratios I use that may or may not be 2. They also spec a wider time range than many sources.

They don't mention the capacity of the filter baskets. While it doesn't give a perfect result for me the razor tool can still give a clue. I found the single very difficult to use without over filling so swapped that for a standard 7g filter basket. It will hold more on the DB. The problem with the Sage one is tamping - tamper presses on the basket not the grinds. 12g in might make it work.

The machine can be set to volume mode. When tuning a bean in that mode you would be setting up for a certain volume in a certain time so there is no need to set time as well. The machine will try to maintain the volume / weight of the shot. I tried it briefly and wasn't too impressed with it's accuracy. Being fair to Sage it can probably be made to work well if the pressure gauge doesn't go any higher than the blue sector on the gauge or some point past it but as that is increased the shot accuracy will decrease. The pressure is limited by an over pressure valve which dumps excess pressure back into the water tank. At some point this is way way more than the weight of the shot and it measures all of the water flow not just the bit that goes through the puck. The Barista Express works the same way and that will hold a shot weight rather well if due attention is given to the pressure gauge so the DB can very probably do the same. The reason is where they put the flow meter, after the feed from the tank and before the pump. Full blown commercial machines put it after the over pressure valve so that it actually measures just the water flow through the puck. :) I'll forgive them for not doing this as machines that do and offer the same programming facilities can cost several thousand pounds and even then may not have stainless boilers.

So I used timed shots. That needs careful prep to keep the output constant. Some use the machine in manual mode and weigh the shot as it's pulled. I have intended to try and make the volume mode work well but suspect it will use more coffee, maybe one day.

While I have mentioned why you are probably having problems with the single it wouldn't be a bad idea to mention what grinder you are using but if it was Ok on Gaggia I can't see why there should be a problem on a DB other than you are probably brewing at a higher pressure now which will need finer grinding.

John

-

 

Edited by ajohn

In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A,. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

SageBanner_v01.jpg.a45786743a4eb401969788b45ae7f893.jpg

 

 

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Hi Joe and John,

 

Many thanks for your replies. Thanks too, Joe, for the edit - post was a tad long-winded wasn't it - sorry for that!

You've both helped me understand the shot size issue, and more! Interesting that one of you goes by volume and the other by duration. So far, like you Joe, I've used manual every time except the very first. The coffee, considering it's from very stale beans, tastes good, better than we got from the gaggia even when the beans were fresher. But my spouse and I both like very big shots of strong coffee: for her black I've been packing the basket as full as I can and running off 100ml, which from what I read is like two double shots in volume. I use an even larger volume as the base for my cappucino ... I imagine afictionados on here throwing up their hands in horror! Really we need to wait till we get some fresh roasted beans though before we decide whether to venture into more purist territory, or continue as we are. We only drink the one cup each day.

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My fixed 30sec duration keeps the shot weight to within a couple of grams so I too work to a volume out. Just a different way of doing it.  I've found that as far as taste goes I can allow more variation than I mostly achieve. Mostly as sometimes the last few shots out of a can of beans need the grinder altering. I might be using 40g for instance and rather suddenly that may go to 45. Time to adjust the grinder.

John

-


In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A,. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D

SageBanner_v01.jpg.a45786743a4eb401969788b45ae7f893.jpg

 

 

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Hi Joe and John,

 

Many thanks for your replies. Thanks too, Joe, for the edit - post was a tad long-winded wasn't it - sorry for that!

You've both helped me understand the shot size issue, and more! Interesting that one of you goes by volume and the other by duration. So far, like you Joe, I've used manual every time except the very first. The coffee, considering it's from very stale beans, tastes good, better than we got from the gaggia even when the beans were fresher. But my spouse and I both like very big shots of strong coffee: for her black I've been packing the basket as full as I can and running off 100ml, which from what I read is like two double shots in volume. I use an even larger volume as the base for my cappucino ... I imagine afictionados on here throwing up their hands in horror! Really we need to wait till we get some fresh roasted beans though before we decide whether to venture into more purist territory, or continue as we are. We only drink the one cup each day.

Nothing wrong with high ratios if they work for you A 1:5 ratio will be more diluted than a 1:2 or 1:3 one so you may find a shorter shot in your final drink (either topped up with water or milk depending on your final drink) will taste just as strong but bring out different flavour notes in the bean. Here's a good vid that explains some way how to dial in your shot for best taste.

 


Laissez les bons temps rouler

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