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You can just pull the plug on it if it's an emergency :D

Behind machine, not easily accessible.


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Pretty simple @PPapa android is linux, just google trademarked.

 

What you're looking at is a gui, a pretty overlay that can glitch - the app here is the gui, one less layer to glitch, (so not truly an app, just being referred to as one for the sake of discussion) the tablet will, I assume, be off the shelf (they can be bought direct, with no OS)

 

Most interrupters are mechanical.

 

true, It would just have been allot more simple and easier for people if it were an app that could be downloaded to a android and iOS device. In that case when that tablet decide to die on them they weren't depended on getting a new one from the manufacture or buying an empty tablet from the shelf and the tedious work of installing the os on it.

 

year sure they don't risk interference from other apps, that is a plus. But the above problem is in my book far more problematic.


Coffee: Ek - Feldgrind- Brewista Kettle - Bonavita Scale - Hario V60 - Kalita Wave - FRVD Moka Pot - Sowden

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Good - but even if you do the programming right bluetooth still loose connections from time to time, although not as often as years back. But still I agree that you really should consider adding a shot off brew switch just in case!

 

Good point.

 

How about if we stop any activity (shot, steam, hot water) if the bluetooth connection to the tablet is interrupted? That seems sensible.

 

FYI in my testing I've yet to have bluetooth connections drop yet. I even took the tablet to the bathroom, 100ft away, and the bluetooth connection held, which suprised the hell out of me. Bear in mind that we're providing both the bluetooth module (on the espresso machine) and the tablet, so we control the quality of both ends of the connection.

 

Doubt it's even the programming most of the time, tablets do just go nuts from time to time, apps crash, sometimes due to their programming, some times due to other programs incorrectly releasing memory etc.

 

Because we provide the tablet, and all the software on it, the tablet should be pretty reliable. Now, if you load it up with bloat and malware, you might manage to make the tablet unstable.

 

So will I need to spend £400a year/2years keeping my coffee machine running sweet ?

 

Only if you feel that the tablet running your coffee machine absolutely has to have the latest version of Android. If we ship with Android 5.1 and it works perfectly well, why update anything on it, except perhaps the Espresso software ?

 

Am I imagining that the tablet is supplied with the machine? So it's also less likely it'll get bogged down by other software etc...I thought I read that but can't see it now.

 

Correct, the tablet is included with the espresso machine.

 

Also, I'm not sure what you mean "booting straight into the app". That sounds bonkers to me.

 

If the tablet is rebooted, it will first boot into the Android desktop, and then, a few seconds later, run the Decent Espresso app.

 

You can do anything you want with the tablet, it's a perfectly decent stock tablet, with a 1280x800 screen and a quad-core cpu.

 

We won't be neutering Android. I really like that skype, for instance, is on Android, so that I can provide video tech support directly to you with it.

 

Yes, you will also be able to use your Android phone as a backup (or alternate) way to run the app. Also, we will (in time) have an iPhone version of our app.

 

-john

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Good point.

 

How about if we stop any activity (shot, steam, hot water) if the bluetooth connection to the tablet is interrupted? That seems sensible.

 

FYI in my testing I've yet to have bluetooth connections drop yet. I even took the tablet to the bathroom, 100ft away, and the bluetooth connection held, which suprised the hell out of me. Bear in mind that we're providing both the bluetooth module (on the espresso machine) and the tablet, so we control the quality of both ends of the connection.

 

 

 

Because we provide the tablet, and all the software on it, the tablet should be pretty reliable. Now, if you load it up with bloat and malware, you might manage to make the tablet unstable.

 

 

 

Only if you feel that the tablet running your coffee machine absolutely has to have the latest version of Android. If we ship with Android 5.1 and it works perfectly well, why update anything on it, except perhaps the Espresso software ?

 

 

 

Correct, the tablet is included with the espresso machine.

 

 

 

If the tablet is rebooted, it will first boot into the Android desktop, and then, a few seconds later, run the Decent Espresso app.

 

You can do anything you want with the tablet, it's a perfectly decent stock tablet, with a 1280x800 screen and a quad-core cpu.

 

We won't be neutering Android. I really like that skype, for instance, is on Android, so that I can provide video tech support directly to you with it.

 

Yes, you will also be able to use your Android phone as a backup (or alternate) way to run the app. Also, we will (in time) have an iPhone version of our app.

 

-john

 

You've kind of answered your own question there. If you're connecting this tablet to the Internet, it needs the latest android updates for security purposes surely?


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FYI in my testing I've yet to have bluetooth connections drop yet. I even took the tablet to the bathroom, 100ft away, and the bluetooth connection held, which suprised the hell out of me. Bear in mind that we're providing both the bluetooth module (on the espresso machine) and the tablet, so we control the quality of both ends of the connection.

 

 

 

 

"Testing shows the presence, not the absence of bugs."

- E. W. Djikstra

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Only if you feel that the tablet running your coffee machine absolutely has to have the latest version of Android. If we ship with Android 5.1 and it works perfectly well, why update anything on it, except perhaps the Espresso software ?

 

 

ok, so if the tablet starts to get old, doesnt hold its charge, etc etc .. as they do .... if I buy a new tablet that comes with Android 6 or 7 on it .... will I need to downgrade the OS, or will your software be compatible .... will you be coding BT drivers and apps for all versions of android .. or just 5.1, or doesnt it matter.

 

sorry for the confusion of questioning. But my espresso machines are 9-10 years old, 20 years old and 45 years old respectively ...... each still works perfectly ..... BUT I dont have a single bit of "tech" that is more than 5 years old that still works or that is compatible with anything else.?

 

I am worried that if you stop making this machine, then unless I can find a old Android device on eBay, my machine will be worthless .... well unless I buy the one with a button on it :D


Izzo Vivi, La Pavoni Europiccola, Microcasa a Leva, Macap MC4, Lido E .... and a preference for the Dark Side

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You've kind of answered your own question there. If you're connecting this tablet to the Internet, it needs the latest android updates for security purposes surely?

 

I would have thought security is a pretty small concern on a tablet you aren't using in your day to day life and will have limited if any personal details on it.

 

Decentespresso - what about an optional Bluetooth hardware module with the buttons on it that can negate the need for a tablet and open up the API so people can build their own with custom functionality if they want with a Pi or the like?

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I would have thought security is a pretty small concern on a tablet you aren't using in your day to day life and will have limited if any personal details on it.

 

I may be wrong, but if the tablet is compromised would it not allow a hacker access to your home network making any other device on your network vulnerable?


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I would have thought security is a pretty small concern on a tablet you aren't using in your day to day life and will have limited if any personal details on it.

 

My Android expert tells me that if Google Play is installed on the tablet, then Google will automatically push security updates to the tablet, without user intervention.

 

what about an optional Bluetooth hardware module with the buttons on it that can negate the need for a tablet and open up the API so people can build their own with custom functionality if they want with a Pi or the like?

 

The API is open, and the UI source is included, and yes, you absolutely will be able to talk to bluetooth devices like this one and glue it in:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/GC37886-Griffin-PowerMate-Multimedia-Controller/dp/B00IRDRL4K/

 

and I'll be writing sample code to do so (maybe with the Griffin, actually, to offer real-time control of pressure), including that sample code with the espresso machine, so you can buy a popular bluetooth module, and see how it can be added. Or make your own hardware device (perhaps a 3D printed paddle), glue it on a bluetooth module, and off you go.

 

I'm currently showing this extension mechanism with the TI SensorTag (i.e. providing sample code) so that you can see how you can add sound, light, humidity and temperature sensing via a bluetooth accessory:

http://www.ti.com/ww/en/wireless_connectivity/sensortag2015/?INTC=SensorTag&HQS=sensortag

 

Some people said they'd be interested in having the humidity and temperature logged with each shot, along with flow rate. In theory, this would allow you to predict dose changes you need to make in order to achieve greater shot consistency in different weather. Since we're also developing a bluetooth controller for grinders (provides weighed doses) you could tell the grinder to adjust the dose weight for you, when weather conditions change.

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I may be wrong, but if the tablet is compromised would it not allow a hacker access to your home network making any other device on your network vulnerable?

 

Exactly! If one device is insecure your entire network is compromised !

 

That is exactly why I don't in general want Android devices in my network or try to avoid things on Internet that doesn't have a hardware firewall installed!

 

Hackers will always go after the weakest link


Coffee: Ek - Feldgrind- Brewista Kettle - Bonavita Scale - Hario V60 - Kalita Wave - FRVD Moka Pot - Sowden

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Exactly! If one device is insecure your entire network is compromised ! That is exactly why I don't in general want Android devices in my network or try to avoid things on Internet that doesn't have a hardware firewall installed!

Just to be clear: you can use the tablet to make espresso with wifi disconnected. If you have these fears, that's what I'd recommend.

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The weakest link on your network is likely to be your computer, and the computers of your family. They are used day in day out to access the web which is a hackers easiest route in.

 

Installing nefarious software on a tablet is more difficult especially if it's only used for a few apps, and it doesn't sound like it will be used for web browsing.

 

No hacker is going to target you personally unless you have good stuff to steal that they know is there and worth their time. You will only ever be a victim of bots or software created to steal details, you almost always need to install this yourself by clicking the wrong link or thing.

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I am surprised by the amount of people getting caught up on both using a tablet and using a tablet via Bluetooth.

 

There are kids playing on video game consoles using Bluetooth controllers for 5,6,7,8 hours straight with no issues. People listening to music through their car audio system which is using Bluetooth. Hotels and shops and all different companies using tablets to control a number of things on a day to day basis. I cant see many issues with a tablet using only one app via Bluetooth. Think how many apps your phone has running in the back ground right now, mine probably has at least 10 and 99% of the time I have no problems with it.

 

I think maybe some people are maybe concerned with the lack of buttons and a mechanical feel but technology has been changing this for years, I suppose its just time for coffee machines to catch up. I think its a great looking piece of kit and cant wait to see the finished product. If I could afford one I would likely buy one.


Sage DB (black) and Niche Zero (black)

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@decentespresso will the new scales you are making work gravimetrically with the basic decent espresso machine or only the pro version??


Londinium R, Hg-one, button tamper, vst,ims,V60,siphon,aeropress...and still no idea

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The scale will work with the DE1 (non-pro) version to add gravimetric dosing capability to that espresso machine.

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Some time ago I posted photos of an idea for an optional paddle controller for our espresso machine.

 

With that design, the bottom part of the paddle controlled espresso preinfusion and brew. The top part of the paddle controlled steam and hot water. In the end, I decided to abandon the idea of a combined paddle. Even though it was aesthetically pleasing to me for it to be so minimalist, it wasn't especially functional.

 

Below are 3 photos of a new approach, using 3 separate controls.

 

  • ESPRESSO) the paddle on the group head controls espresso making (preinfusion and brew)
  • STEAM) the sliding switch on the right hand side lifts up to enable steam, and permits control over steam output. The idea is to be able to take one hand off the bottom of the milk jug and to tap the steam control with your hand in an upward hand movement. Tap up-up-up to increase steam. To stop the steam use your right hand, which presumably was under the milk jug, and do a downward "karate chop" on the switch, to stop it.
  • HOT WATER) the sliding switch on the left hand side controls hot water (Americano/Tea) output, with the spout being right behind the portafilter mount in the group head. Again, you can vary the water output and you stop it with a downward motion.

 

The precise aesthetics of this new approach are still being worked on (I'm not yet happy with the appearance of the side switches), but I wanted to post this set of drawings for comment.

 

 

PADDLE BRAD 3 copy.jpg

PADDLE BRAD 2 cópia.jpg

PADDLE BRAD 4 copy.jpg

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I like it. I would just echo the comment on Instagram about the water tank looking like a bit of an afterthought.

Edited by risky

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Yup - agree with risky... I'd be hanging a tank like that off the back of it rather than the side. Looks very odd and would put me off a purchase, though I am somewhat strange when it comes to symmetry.


Lots of everything: machines, grinders, roaster, beans, tampers, baskets, blah, blah

However - Too much is never enough!

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It would almost be better separate, with a feed to the machine, like a nespresso machine


esto tambien pasara.

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re: water tank.

 

Understood, though the reason we designed it that way was for the water tank to be really easily accessible (filled with your right hand) and for you to be able to see the water level. I hate being interrupted mid-shot when my water tank runs out.

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re: water tank.

 

Understood, though the reason we designed it that way was for the water tank to be really easily accessible (filled with your right hand) and for you to be able to see the water level. I hate being interrupted mid-shot when my water tank runs out.

Surely most people check it? And how do you refill it one handed unless you have a jug and water to hand? By the time you've taken the lid off, grabbed a jug and turned on a tap/wrested the lid from your bottled water it's a bit late anyway, and you should have just checked first, or added to the design so you can see it's empty... the rest of it is beautiful though.


Did someone say coffee?

:Gaggia Classic--> Nuova Simonelli Oscar--> fracino Cherub:Mazzer SuperJolly:Hario V60+aeropress+french press:

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If the water tank were behind the machine, or underneath the machine, you mostly wouldn't be able to see the water level. My current espresso machine [big italian name] has the water tank under the machine, behind the drip tray, so not only can I not see the water level, but adding water means taking the drip tray out.

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I like being able to see the water levels - and I'd prefer not to add depth to the machine. It's not perfect visually - but I think it's worth the compromise. I'm mostly good at checking water levels - but will run the gauntlet for the last cup of the day and occasionally get caught out.

 

I like the new slider buttons too - functionally - but as you say, need refining a little.

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@decent_espresso afaik the vesuvius doesn't stop the pump/heater if intrashot the water level falls below the preset level (maybe there is a second, lower level which is considered critical and if reached it kills the shot). Can that be implemented with the DE?

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