Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Sounds useful but the design makes it look a bit awkward. Maybe something less obvious that doesn't look like a second portafilter handle?

 

In the video you saw, we're using an alternate design for the handle, that we only have one of, and that we're not going to manufacture.

 

With our current design (the one we're actually building) the 2nd handle is much smaller and shorter than the portafilter.

 

I agree that I'm concerned about it, it's something we really asked for feedback on at the Portland CoffeeFest trade show where we exhibited. I was really surprised at how, in person, that 2nd handle elicited nothing but shrugs. No-one seemed to be bother-ed.

 

Take a look at this video to see what a few views of that 2nd handle. But, I am moving it to the left next week, as it is annoying in the way during steaming, at the moment.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must admit I thought the handle an odd looking thing, although I can see how it could be useful depending on how tight the portafilter fits into the group head. Maybe a smaller one reminiscent of the paddle would look better.

 

As a lefty, the existing placement is good, which made me wonder how awkward it must be on any machine to lock in a portafilter with your right hand.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a micro casa elekra owner, the PF locks in that way .... It's mildly awkward for a right hander BUT not because it's difficult, just unnatural feeling as you are used to doing it the other way all the time. It dies keep it out the way of the steam wand though and still leaves it at a decent enough angle to provide leverage when pulling the lever.

 

in your case couldn't you use a thicker gasket z d have it line up dead centre ?


Izzo Vivi, La Pavoni Europiccola, Microcasa a Leva, Macap MC4, Lido E .... and a preference for the Dark Side

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As it happens, we're currently playing with different gaskets, as the one in there now is waaaay too stiff. The pf locking where it does is that people can use other pf brands and they'll work. We found some pfs lock around "5pm" so we ended up making our lock around "7pm" as a compromise.

 

As to the 2nd handle, we'll see if it's needed in many cases. We're using rubber suction cup feet, so that if you put the DE1 on tile or any other watertight surface, it stays put despite not being heavy.

 

As I mentioned above, if you don't like the 2nd handle, it screws out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're absolutely right, we'd have to charge at least twice that if we were working through resellers and distributors, as each typically takes a 30% to 50% margin.

 

I really hate the idea of making a machine for £150, selling it to a distributor for £250 and the eventual customer paying £899 for it. There's no way to make a decent machine for that little money.

 

That's why we're only selling direct to consumer. That lets us spend £500 to make your machine, sell it to you for £999, and we make enough profit to both make something of quality, and support you in the case where you have any problems.

 

Being a company in US, there is one thing that will hit European hard financially and that is VAT and import duties.

 

If your machine is indeed sold at £999, the price for many Europeans will however be more like £1250-1300


Coffee: Ek - Feldgrind- Brewista Kettle - Bonavita Scale - Hario V60 - Kalita Wave - FRVD Moka Pot - Sowden

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a Cafelat gasket in my machine at the moment, and whilst its a big heavy VBM I barely lock the PF in and I never get any spurts. I think the design of the lugs and material of the gasket can mean even the lightest machine doesn't need to move when locking int he PF.

 

Perhaps design a simple way to unscrew the handle and maybe a nice looking decorative cap to go where the screw hole is if you dont use it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have a Cafelat gasket in my machine at the moment, and whilst its a big heavy VBM I barely lock the PF in and I never get any spurts. I think the design of the lugs and material of the gasket can mean even the lightest machine doesn't need to move when locking in the PF.

I'm friends with Paul @ Cafelat and have one of his gaskets here. If you prefer it, you can absolutely use it on our espresso machine.

 

 

Perhaps design a simple way to unscrew the handle and maybe a nice looking decorative cap to go where the screw hole is if you dont use it?

Because we have a "cover" on the group head, you can't actually see the hole if you remove the handle, unless you bend way down and look for it.

 

 

Being a company in US, there is one thing that will hit European hard financially and that is VAT and import duties. If your machine is indeed sold at £999, the price for many Europeans will however be more like £1250-1300

 

We're shipping out of Hong Kong, where we're building the machines (that's where I am too), but yes, the VAT/duty issue when sending products into the EU is unavoidable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm friends with Paul @ Cafelat and have one of his gaskets here. If you prefer it, you can absolutely use it on our espresso machine.

---

Because we have a "cover" on the group head, you can't actually see the hole if you remove the handle, unless you bend way down and look for it.

 

Good stuff, it seems like its a good option to have in any case so if it's removable and doesn't adversely affect the design then its just an added bonus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people have expressed the sentiment that they really don't want to have to use a tablet to make an espresso, and for them that is a major hurdle to them using the espresso machine we're designing.

 

So, I made a video to show how (not) difficult it is. The goal was to not make day-to-day espresso making any more difficult than a simpler (non tablet) machine. The main benefit of the tablet is that you can go into the "settings" page and change temperature, pressure profile, volumetric dosing, gravimetric dosing (if you have our bluetooth scale) and more.

 

This video is showing an early version of the user interface: I'll be adding (I'm the programmer) a real time display of water temperature, pressure, and flow, as well as a shot timer.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you show us s vid where you start the pour, then the tablet decides to freeze and you need to hard reset it before the app responds again giving you 1ltr of espresso in that cup ;)

 

Or the one where you hit stop ... Nothing happens .... Hit stop agsin nothing happens .... Hit it 3 more times .... Then it catches up and stops the shot, starts it, stops it, starts it and stops it. :D

 

it does look ace ... And it does look easy to use, but I get these issues using the Sonos app on a notable basis ... A tad annoying but livable ... On an espresso machine, i would insist on a wired button to turn the shot off .... Or at least have the power button on the front


Izzo Vivi, La Pavoni Europiccola, Microcasa a Leva, Macap MC4, Lido E .... and a preference for the Dark Side

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
it does look easy to use, but I get these issues using the Sonos app on a notable basis ... A tad annoying but livable ... On an espresso machine, i would insist on a wired button to turn the shot off .... Or at least have the power button on the front

Sonos might be able to get away with that kind of thing, but if the DE1 ever acts like you're describing, that would be an EPIC FAIL, it would be widely discussed (and mocked) all over the Internet, and that would be the end of us. It's just not acceptable, I think, for a device to act like you say your Sonos is doing.

 

That being said, I've mentioned before that we're working on a (extra cost) paddle controller that will let you vary pressure, but also stop/start espresso brew. If you don't want to use a tablet to control our espresso machine, that'd be what I'd recommend to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good - but even if you do the programming right bluetooth still loose connections from time to time, although not as often as years back. But still I agree that you really should consider adding a shot off brew switch just in case!


Coffee: Ek - Feldgrind- Brewista Kettle - Bonavita Scale - Hario V60 - Kalita Wave - FRVD Moka Pot - Sowden

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doubt it's even the programming most of the time, tablets do just go nuts from time to time, apps crash, sometimes due to their programming, some times due to other programs incorrectly releasing memory etc.

 

sods law says its will happen mid pour ....

 

The ipad 1 is particularly bad, the iPad 2 a bit better, the nexus 7 gen1 is the worst, kindle fire is ok, but slow, the iPhone 5s is the most stable and the Lumia 640 is ok as well ... Other than notifications keep popping up stopping what I am doing.

 

on that it would seem the age of a device has an impact .... So will I need to spend £400a year/2years keeping my coffee machine running sweet ?


Izzo Vivi, La Pavoni Europiccola, Microcasa a Leva, Macap MC4, Lido E .... and a preference for the Dark Side

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As he wrote you could just get the manual version ;)

 

That written the steaming seems quite awkward

Edited by malling

Coffee: Ek - Feldgrind- Brewista Kettle - Bonavita Scale - Hario V60 - Kalita Wave - FRVD Moka Pot - Sowden

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I imagining that the tablet is supplied with the machine? So it's also less likely it'll get bogged down by other software etc...I thought I read that but can't see it now.


Everything my heart could desire (more or less). . .

 

https://cupperjoe.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be better of they referred to it as a touch screen rather than a tablet which sounds more daunting than it really is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we've already covered the fact that this will be a supplied tablet, booting straight into the app, not into an operating system, so definitely more stable... I have to agree that an override would be desirable (if only a power switch on the front) though, in kitchens, stuff happens, excluding an interrupter just sounds like hubris to me!


esto tambien pasara.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think we've already covered the fact that this will be a supplied tablet, booting straight into the app, not into an operating system, so definitely more stable... I have to agree that an override would be desirable (if only a power switch on the front) though, in kitchens, stuff happens, excluding an interrupter just sounds like hubris to me!

 

Some devil advocates say that specialised hardware/software is less reliable than a COTS equivalents.

 

Also, I'm not sure what you mean "booting straight into the app". That sounds bonkers to me.

 

I hope the tablet has been built on Android (which sounds like a better idea), but I agree that not having switches sounds weird. I know most buttons aren't truly mechanical (flown by wire instead), but at least it has a shorter chain of things that can go wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some devil advocates say that specialised hardware/software is less reliable than a COTS equivalents.

 

Also, I'm not sure what you mean "booting straight into the app". That sounds bonkers to me.

 

I hope the tablet has been built on Android (which sounds like a better idea), but I agree that not having switches sounds weird. I know most buttons aren't truly mechanical (flown by wire instead), but at least it has a shorter chain of things that can go wrong.

 

Pretty simple @PPapa android is linux, just google trademarked.

 

What you're looking at is a gui, a pretty overlay that can glitch - the app here is the gui, one less layer to glitch, (so not truly an app, just being referred to as one for the sake of discussion) the tablet will, I assume, be off the shelf (they can be bought direct, with no OS)

 

Most interrupters are mechanical.


esto tambien pasara.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pretty simple @PPapa android is linux, just google trademarked.

 

What you're looking at is a gui, a pretty overlay that can glitch - the app here is the gui, one less layer to glitch, (so not truly an app, just being referred to as one for the sake of discussion) the tablet will, I assume, be off the shelf (they can be bought direct, with no OS)

 

Most interrupters are mechanical.

 

I guess that's just my interpretation of your saying "booting straight into the app". You still boot the OS and load the app (even if you can't use it for anything else).

 

I am well aware of Linux (regular user for nearly a decade now). Had some anecdotal experience of custom ROMs for the Android based phones and I will religiously say that I won't trust them to operate the espresso machine without an alternative switch off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess that's just my interpretation of your saying "booting straight into the app". You still boot the OS and load the app (even if you can't use it for anything else).

 

I am well aware of Linux (regular user for nearly a decade now). Had some anecdotal experience of custom ROMs for the Android based phones and I will religiously say that I won't trust them to operate the espresso machine without an alternative switch off.

 

I guess we need to ask @decent_espresso about that - He could of course have written something to be compiled as a reduced functionality, increased stability OS.

 

The reason the ROMs are less stable, is that they are invariably trying to make use of additional, even bleeding edge functionality, completely the opposite goal to this.

 

I agree with the interrupt, as I said...


esto tambien pasara.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read somewhere that the DE1 is going to have hardware safety features (overheating, high pressure, etc) as in the US if these are software-based the regulators who have to approve the product are much more scrutinizing/demanding and that's one of the reasons ZPM failed. I'm not sure if an 'interrupt' switch is planned but it certainly sounds like a good idea. Maybe just stick it underneath the machine so it doesn't disturb the design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I read somewhere that the DE1 is going to have hardware safety features (overheating, high pressure, etc) as in the US if these are software-based the regulators who have to approve the product are much more scrutinizing/demanding and that's one of the reasons ZPM failed. I'm not sure if an 'interrupt' switch is planned but it certainly sounds like a good idea. Maybe just stick it underneath the machine so it doesn't disturb the design.

IMO it needs to be easily accessed like an emergency stop button.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can just pull the plug on it if it's an emergency :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I read somewhere that the DE1 is going to have hardware safety features (overheating, high pressure, etc) as in the US if these are software-based the regulators who have to approve the product are much more scrutinizing/demanding and that's one of the reasons ZPM failed. I'm not sure if an 'interrupt' switch is planned but it certainly sounds like a good idea. Maybe just stick it underneath the machine so it doesn't disturb the design.

 

If you have an emergency situation (steam doesn't stop or overfilling drip tray), having it underneath sounds like a disaster!

 

On the other hand, we should probably just appreciate that DE team is actually providing us some decent information and they are working hard to prove their machine. Very few manufacturers bother even listening to the feedback, never mind providing design details and stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • About:

    Coffee Forums UK is the UK's premier coffee forum Started in June 2008 by Glenn Watson, we now have more than 22000 mainly UK based members, and welcome more than 3000 members and visitors from around the world each day! With strategic investment and digital expertise from the Jackson Lockhart team (Tait Pollack and Adam Bateman), we are taking Coffee Forums UK to the next level, and are delighted to share the journey with you.

    New Members:

    We are often referred to as the friendliest forum on the web and we look forward to welcoming you onboard.

    Terms of Use

    Advertising

    Coffee Forums Media Kit

    Buy Advertising Space

    Donate

    Get Your Supporter Badge (per year)

×
×
  • Create New...