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Here is a render of the new DE1XL model we've been working on, when you use it as a tabletop machine.

 

Is that a hint of blue LED a la group head controller, or a trick of light and wishful thinking?

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Is that a hint of blue LED a la group head controller, or a trick of light and wishful thinking?

 

Well spotted!

 

Indeed, we're working on renders for the v1.3 version of the DE1XL with the new group head controller, coming in September. There will also be a user-installable upgrade kit for any v1.1 DE1XL owners who want it (at the cost difference).

 

Here's what that looks like:

 

de1xl_v13.jpg

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I've also heard through the grapevine that their engineers are unable to believe that we can control flow to the accuracy that we do. They don't understand understand how it's possible.

 

 

Is the decent using only pump control in order to set the flow? Or are there also other parts at play?

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Is the decent using only pump control in order to set the flow? Or are there also other parts at play?

 

CHINESE SPY ALERT!

 

:rolleyes:

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I have a question/proposal.

All other machines that can do programmed and repeatable pressure/flow profiling (vesuvius/rocket r60/dallacorte mina etc) ,do it time-based.You can split the extraction in max of 5 sections and choose a pressure/flow preset for each one.So can decent do, however it is not limited to just 5 sections and it can also be triggered to the next step by a pressure or flow limit exceeded.

This feature is mainly for those who use a certain coffee for a long time.If you are changing grind/weight/coffee beans (as many home users do) you cannot use it.

 

So why don't you add a weight-based trigger in the advanced mode when using a skale ,so one can easily split an extraction -let's say in 3 parts according to the rule of thirds- and follow the same pattern of pressure/flow/temperature stages independently of the extraction time.

 

Why not take full advantage of the gravimetric features in the ''advanced mode'' since it is ''only'' the software that has to be modified but use the scale for just the ending of the extraction?

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Posted (edited)
So why don't you add a weight-based trigger in the advanced mode when using a skale ,so one can easily split an extraction -let's say in 3 parts according to the rule of thirds- and follow the same pattern of pressure/flow/temperature stages independently of the extraction time. Why not take full advantage of the gravimetric features in the ''advanced mode'' since it is ''only'' the software that has to be modified but use the scale for just the ending of the extraction?

 

Indeed, it's in our plans, but currently (for safety and reliability reasons) once you hit START the espresso machine runs the shot. Not the tablet.

 

The bluetooth scale talks to the tablet, not the espresso machine. Thus, the scale cannot direct the shot.

 

My plan is to eventually have a hard-wired scale, which then will enable exactly what you're describing. Also, being hard wired, we can hit the reliability and safety concerns I have.

 

For now, the bluetooth scale only stops shots, and displays flow rate into the cup. That's not bad for £84 though, compared to £10k plus for "gravimetric stop" from Simonelli or LM. But we don't have the reliability they have, being as they have hard-wired scales, so it's reasonable that we should be less expensive.

 

-john

 

 

-john

Edited by decent_espresso

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Is the decent using only pump control in order to set the flow? Or are there also other parts at play?

Only pump control.

 

Vibe pumps (with a rectified AC signal) give us 100 to 120 pump strokes per second to play with. We control each pump stroke individually

 

We use a physics model (calibrated against the flow meter) to understand how much water (at a given pressure) each pump stroke will cause. This physics model is further complicated by the fact that there are two pumps (hot and cold) mixing, to achieve a goal temperature.

 

It wasn't an easy problem to solve.

 

We still have room for improvement, and the next firmware revision will try to understand the difference in water movement caused inside a 220V to 240V variance. The higher voltages can move a bit more water when under higher pressures. At lower pressures, the voltage difference has a negligible effect. The goal is for every "espresso profile" to behave identically worldwide, regardless of voltage (100V to 240V variance). We're not there yet: Rao's "Blooming espresso" program behaves a bit differently in the USA than in the rest of the world, due to differences in electromagnets at different voltages. A little bit of profile tweaking is required. But we're getting better.

 

-john

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too close for comfort.jpg

 

My engineer Fabrice has just finished making a two-group DE1XL tablet, on a 1.2-meter long bamboo IKEA table.

 

We did a lot of modeling of scenarios of this in Solidworks, to try to get a good workflow.

 

This design tries to minimize left/right-hand movement. Because portafilters lock-in from the left side, there is a lot of left-hand movement.

 

Here's the coffee making workflow:

1) you lock the portafilter in with your left hand,

2) after the shot completes, remove it with your left hand again.

3) Knock the puck out (still with your left hand)

4) put the portafilter into the pitcher rinser to clean out any remaining coffee grounds

5) then put the portafilter (still left hand) onto the portafilter stand of the grinder

6) and then use your right hand to put the funnel on and turn the grinder on.

7) remove the portafilter from the grinder with your left hand

8) tap (or groom) the grounds with your right hand

9) and tamp the portafilter, using your right hand to hold the portafilter

10) lock the portafilter back into the (left side) group, with your left hand

11) tap the START button with your right hand

 

If making a milk drink:

1) pour milk into a Decent milk jug, to 200ml (for a typical "cap")

2) use the right-side group to steam milk, while your shot is being made

3) keep a small cloth, wet with the pitcher rinser, to wipe down your steam wand

 

Yes, I know this is an obsessive analysis. But a coffee cart is going to do this 500 times a day, so I think this analysis needs doing.

 

I found the middle steam wand to be a bit cramped. It's not in constant use, but it'd be nice if it were easier to access. Locking the portafilter into the right side group tends to bang into the left side portafilter.

 

To help relieve the "crammed in middle steam wand" issue, I have now:

1) swapped the portafilter handles with the smaller group head hands, thus making shorter portafilters

2) will be swapping out the middle steam wand from our large "pro" DE1XL steam wand to our smaller DE1+/DE1PRO steam wand

 

This "coffee cart" is going into live testing on Monday, as it will be pulling shots at the "HOFEX" trade show http://hofex.com at Australian/Hong-Kong Redback Coffee roasters https://redbackcoffee.com.hk

 

My lead barista Hannifa will make hundreds of drinks over a few days' time at the Redback stand. Afterward, we'll then have a better understanding of how to improve this stand design further.

 

-john

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screen 2019-05-05 at 2.50.47 PM.jpg

 

A few people wrote to me that they were shocked and appalled that I had suggested a left-hand-focussed workflow in my previous posting.

 

They worried that I was about to make a terrible blunder, and release a coffee cart product that nobody would want to use.

 

Just to be clear: WE ARE NOT MAKING COFFEE CARTS.

 

Here in Hong Kong, we're buying IKEA tables, and experimenting with our own ideas for workflow. You can make your own coffee cart workflow.

 

We have no plans to make coffee carts. We want to sell espresso machines. The IKEA cart is an example of one setup. We'll be posting videos of what we've done, and I'm hoping others will post what they end up doing.

 

My assumption is that everyone "knows best" what works best for them, and will organize Decent Espresso machines, grinders, tamping areas, pitchers rinsers, towels, all as they see fit. This is one of the great advantages of a single-group head, modular approach. Set up your workflow as you like.

 

In the attached render, we've removed the group head handles (they unscrew, so you can remove them too) and used a pitcher rinser to space each machine. This is just another idea: you should lay out out Decent Workflow however you like.

 

-john

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workflow copy.jpg

 

Here’s the final coffee cart, with workflow explained.

 

Now with a smaller central steam wand.

 

-john

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Hofex Coffee Cart

redback_decent.jpg

 

Here's what our coffee cart looks like, actually running at the Hotel Expo (HOFEX) monster-large trade show in Hong Kong.

 

Basically, we're making free coffee, with beans and milk courtesy of Australian/Hk based roaster Redback.Here's what our coffee cart looks like, actually running at the Hotel Expo (HOFEX) monster-large trade show in Hong Kong.

 

Basically, we're making free coffee, with beans and milk courtesy of Australian/Hk based roaster Redback.

 

-john

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screen 2019-05-08 at 12.04.49 PM.jpg

 

I was asked if we had plans for a "point of sale" system.

 

Yes, that's exactly where we're headed.

- The DE1XL metal tablet stand can hold the tablet, secured to the table, customer facing. We've left space in front of each DE1 for this.

- One customer-facing tablet sits in front of each DE1.

- You can then order, and the order is sent to a queue.

- The barista sees the queue and at the end of each drink, taps on the queue items they will now make

- If a site needs more coffees/hour capacity, they buy more coffee stations, and the queue is automatically shared by all DE1s at the site

- So: you can order from any station, and your coffee will be made wherever it can be made most efficiently.

- For example: if you order an unusual coffee (decaf, or an expensive bean) you might have your order made at one of the two-grinder/one-DE1 stations. But the majority of the stations will be "caffeinated, house blend" two-group/one-grinder.

 

 

Other topic...

 

"Private cafés" are a big concept I'm running with.

 

Here in HK, the big law firms/finance firms don't want their staff having business conversations at the local Starbucks. So, they install a "company cafe" in their office lobby. That means free rent for the roaster, who operates it, bills the client, and we supply the equipment.

 

I suspect most large companies of office workers, would be interested in the private café approach.

 

Plus, it's a nice perq to use to recruit staff.

 

I'm using HK to proof out this idea, debug it, and then will start pitching it to roasters in other cities.

 

-john

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Here's what our coffee cart looks like, actually running at the Hotel Expo (HOFEX) monster-large trade show in Hong Kong.

 

Basically, we're making free coffee, with beans and milk courtesy of Australian/Hk based roaster Redback.Here's what our coffee cart looks like, actually running at the Hotel Expo (HOFEX) monster-large trade show in Hong Kong.

 

Basically, we're making free coffee, with beans and milk courtesy of Australian/Hk based roaster Redback.

 

It sounds like you've had a fair bit of coffee yourself :D:coffee:

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I just finished making this video explaining the differences between this new model and the existing Decent espresso machine models.

 

One thing I realized afterward, is that I never talk about the actual functionality of the machine in this video. It's the same functionality as for our other models, so I'm expecting people to watch those other videos if they want to know about how we make coffee. Seem reasonable?

 

All the parts for this new model are supposed to arrive in about two weeks.

 

We've been having a bit of trouble getting an opaque white back panel that laser etches nicely. The current white panels are a bit translucent.

 

The problem is that most plastics bubble in an unsightly way with laser etching, and I don't like screening because it wears off with time. We're hoping to finally have a solution to that this week, just about the same time when all the rest of the parts come in. The black panels were never a problem.

 

-john

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Here is Hannifa using two DE1XL espresso machines at the same time. You can see her steaming while making the espresso, and her overall workflow around the IKEA coffee cart.

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We've been having a bit of trouble getting an opaque white back panel that laser etches nicely. The current white panels are a bit translucent.

 

The problem is that most plastics bubble in an unsightly way with laser etching, and I don't like screening because it wears off with time. We're hoping to finally have a solution to that this week, just about the same time when all the rest of the parts come in. The black panels were never a problem.

 

Can you use a clear panel and double-silkscreen the reverse side? First coat with the mirrored logo in a dark color and then an opaque white layer? That way the clear panel will wear on the front surface but the actual logo/background won't.

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Here is Hannifa using two DE1XL espresso machines at the same time. You can see her steaming while making the espresso, and her overall workflow around the IKEA coffee cart.

You should should make a mounting spot on the tamping cradle for whatever she's using to stir those grinds. Sell / include it even.

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I don't know if it has been mentioned, but there is a new shop in Frome, Somerset, called Frāmā. I went in over the weekend and was amazed to see a Decent DE1 sitting next to an EK43S and various other bits and bobs. Great coffee from Colonna and nice to see a DE1 in the flesh. The barista is awaiting the commercial version, but was blown away by the machine he has.

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You should should make a mounting spot on the tamping cradle for whatever she's using to stir those grinds. Sell / include it even.

That's the La Pavoni "WDT tool" she's using. You can buy it for USD$15 online.

 

It's fantastic: perfect. I don't want to try to compete with it, because at that low a price, there's no point. They've nailed it.

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That's the La Pavoni "WDT tool" she's using. You can buy it for USD$15 online.

 

It's fantastic: perfect. I don't want to try to compete with it, because at that low a price, there's no point. They've nailed it.

Looks like it's made by/for bplus in Taiwan under licence (think they're the Asian La Pav distributers). Considering they're claiming 'no more production', I don't think you'd have much competition if you created your own one with Decent branding to match the machine.

Laissez les bons temps rouler

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Looks like it's made by/for bplus in Taiwan under licence (think they're the Asian La Pav distributers). Considering they're claiming 'no more production', I don't think you'd have much competition if you created your own one with Decent branding to match the machine.

 

Londinium is the only other option AFAIK.

 

I think I bought the last silver Bplus WDT tool the other day. It showed up as sold out straight after me ordering one. Sorry!

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Londinium is the only other option AFAIK.

 

I think I bought the last silver Bplus WDT tool the other day. It showed up as sold out straight after me ordering one. Sorry!

Yep

 

No more production either:

 

https://www.bplus.biz/products/the-stirrer-for-la-pavoni-machine-bplus


Ve ve suvivius.... /Pending grinder changes / Eazytamp / tupperware pot / completely healthy relationship with coffee (and bank manager).

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Londinium is the only other option AFAIK.

 

I think I bought the last silver Bplus WDT tool the other day. It showed up as sold out straight after me ordering one. Sorry!

If I wasn't so satisfied with my (cutlery draw find) fruit fork, I might be disappointed!

Laissez les bons temps rouler

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Posted (edited)

lessons copy.jpg

 

My lead barista Hannifa spent 4 days last week making hundreds of drinks a the monster-large HOFEX trade show in Hong Kong.

 

The coffee cart had some issues.

 

Here's what we learned:

 

1) the 3M double-sided tape that we used to mount the Android tablets to our own-design tablet stands, didn't hold up to heavy use. We need to find a stronger adhesive (bottom right photo)

 

2) the magnets used to hold the printed signage allowed the signage to sag with time. We had to stack magnets at the bottom of the sign, making a magnetic ledge, to hold the signage in place. That was a bit of a hack.

 

3) the many magnets holding the fake-drawers in place on the IKEA table, also allowed sagging. The drawer fell at one point on Hannifa's foot (ouch!).

 

4) Don't assume that a pallet jack will be available. Two people showed up with small 4-wheeled trolleys and pushed the table FAST through the show floor. At one point, the table fell off the wheels, but surprisingly (for IKEA quality) the table held and didn't break. Big wheels mounted to the table would be been better.

 

Otherwise, things held up well.

 

-john

Edited by decent_espresso

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