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jamster

Cherub warm up time

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I've been getting decidedly varied shots out of my cherub. Sometimes it makes exceptional coffee (a "hit"; sometimes it is very sour (a "miss").

 

I've tried all the usual variables, but I think it is possibly temperature / temperature stability that is causing the inconsistency.

 

I usually give the machine about 15 minutes to warm up. I've noticed that if I leave it on all day, I get better "hit" rates / fewer "misses".

 

How long do people recommend allowing the machine to warm up? Any little tricks I could use to increase my "hit" rate?

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30-45 minutes is the norm for E61 style machines. If you're in a hurry you can flush water through the grouphead to warm it up faster. Sounds like low temperature is the issue.

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Thanks bronc. Now I wonder how to give it time to warm up without having to get out of bed :)

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Thanks bronc. Now I wonder how to give it time to warm up without having to get out of bed :)

Easy - get a timer plug! I have my machine on one - set to 15 mins before my alarm goes off. By the time I get round to making coffee it's been on 40 mins. 15 mins is not long enough as Bronc says. You might get away with 30 if you wrap a towel round the group and flush a bit through the group to warm up the cups, but 40 is better. Also have the portafilter locked in so that warms up too.

 

You can get really creative with a Wemo Internet enabled switch and IFTTT rules, including geofencing so it turns on when you're 15 mins from home etc, but I found that a bit unreliable so I went back to a cheap mechanical timer from Robert Dyas. Simples!

 

One of the forum members Marcuswar has developed some sort of tasker app that lets you control Wemo etc for this purpose too.

Edited by hotmetal

Rocket R58Ceado E37SAeropressAerGrind • Puck Puck cold brew widget • VST 18g basket • Torr Goldfinger 58.5 convex black Ti/walnut tamper • Torr Goldfinger 58.5 flat sharp edge tamper • Big bag o' beans • Triumph Street Triple 675R

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I'm using an Orvibo S20. It's a cheaper alternative to the WeMo and there is no access to the API (so no IFTTT and other nice little things) but it has a programmable timer and you can switch it on/off with your smartphone wherever you are. It does the job and I'm happy with it.

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I'm using an Orvibo S20. It's a cheaper alternative to the WeMo and there is no access to the API (so no IFTTT and other nice little things) but it has a programmable timer and you can switch it on/off with your smartphone wherever you are. It does the job and I'm happy with it.

Beware of the power rating of your machine as I believe these are only 10amp.

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Good point. I didn't know the Cherub has a 13amp/2.85kW element.

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My cherub/heavenly was always on 30 mins plus before I attempted coffee - and from looking at the erics on my Rocket it seems that 15/20 mins isn't enough.


The Artist Formerly Known As 'jonc' | All the gear, almost no idea.

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Hi Jamster, for what it's worth I struggled with that same problem on my Ariete, basically the same machine, for the first two months of owning it. Now it's been several months of not a single sour shot. The solution for me wasn't all one thing, but a combination of 30m min warmup, three short flushes before the first shot, VST basket, general technique improvement and never overfilling the basket. (Ideal for me is about 14.5g in a 15g VST whereas before that I sometime had a lack of headroom leading to channeling). Good luck!


Fracino Ariete (Classico nowadays), Niche Zero, VST 15g; for work an Aeropress, but still seeking a hand grinder for it...

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I also have an Ariete and if I warm up for less than 30 minutes I am guaranteed a sour shot.

Edited by ChilledMatt

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I can confirm a Wemo Insight works with an Ariete/Cherub without melting, exploding or burning down your house. I always give it around 40 minutes to warm up before the first shot and leave it on all day.

 

I've read a couple of reports with regards to the non-insight Wemo switch ending up dead under max load (I've seen mine at 3150w, so when I say max, I mean it!), so worth a consideration. The insight model also gives you the peace of mind to know that even leaving it on all day most days of the week, it's still only costing you £2-3/month :D


Londinium R | Ceado E37S | Torr Goldfinger

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Yeah, e61 are 30-40 mins depending on room temp. You can speed it up by laying a cloth over the group and also flushing a few times once the brew boiler is up to temp.


DE1Pro, EK43 SSP, bloody tasty coffee!

GrindScience.com - My blog of coffee related ramblings

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A rather belated thanks to everyone on this thread. I managed to strike it lucky with the recent Sage DB discount and so that has solved my warm up time problem. The Cherub has found a wonderful new home thanks to these very forums. I had it up and running yesterday to demo it before it went to its new home, and it was running all day and made some lovely shots. Warm up time is key, it seems.

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"it does look nice there" as the missus arrives downstairs this morning.

 

Thanks @jamster - it's a lovely machine, you've looked after it incredibly well, and thank you for all the effort you went to to make sure I was happy, never mind the all the included accessory bonuses.

 

I allowed 45 minutes warm up before my first shot this morning - and it matched the best I was getting from my old machine.

 

Happy the man.

 

I've got a wemo - so will get it set for the morning - one quick question: I'm used to using fresh water daily - but does the boiler autofill every time it turns on? So I shouldn't leave it low on water as I turn off at the end of the day?

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Thanks @UncleJake - I'm pleased it has found such a great new home. It was a pleasure meeting you.

 

Yes it autofills when it comes on so best to keep it topped up. It does beep (quite quietly) if it has run out of water. I'd hope that this means it wouldn't switch the boiler on empty but might be worth checking with Fracino!

 

Cheers!

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My Ariete (effectively the same machine) will not switch on the element until the boiler is full.

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Yes indeed @ChilledMatt - this is Francino's reply:

 

You will need water in your tank if you’re going to run on a timer otherwise it will time out when trying to fill and won’t heat. The boiler is sterile so the water being a day old is not going to have any detrimental effect on the machine or the taste of your coffee.

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I can confirm a Wemo Insight works with an Ariete/Cherub without melting, exploding or burning down your house. I always give it around 40 minutes to warm up before the first shot and leave it on all day.

 

I've read a couple of reports with regards to the non-insight Wemo switch ending up dead under max load (I've seen mine at 3150w, so when I say max, I mean it!), so worth a consideration. The insight model also gives you the peace of mind to know that even leaving it on all day most days of the week, it's still only costing you £2-3/month :D

 

I have been running a non-insight wemo for a couple of years with no problem at all.

 

Do you have average kwh figures for yours, this interests me as I tend to turn mine off occasinally during the day, but may not bother for a tiny saving.

 

eg what hours do you have yours on for, do you know the average kwh for the warmed-up hours, and the higher average for the first hour when warming up?

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My tank safety seems to have died, so I can't trust a timer switch. Had to bleed it a few months ago and was not a fun procedure!

 

Aren't you supposed to start these with the stream valve open?

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