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DavecUK

It's that time of year again - New Roaster coming on test

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Dave, If you need anything translated to Chinese, let me know i have someone who will do it for you.

 

It does look a great little roaster, any ideas on ballpark costs if BB go ahead?

 

Whats the little roaster on your high shelf also?

 

Thanks for that, but I think as far as all the techie stuff, they understand and in a sense the drawings I do help ensure they have a plan and we have a record of exactly what I want.

 

Oh sharp eyed one, the little roaster on the top shelf is my Quest M3 250-275g capacity, It's the one I intend to sell soon, because 3 roasters is 1 roaster too many.

 

I can't give the actual price, mainly because I don't know what they will be yet, but if it goes ahead it will be an excellent price for what it delivers. I guess what I can say is, a lot of people who pre-order the Aillo Bullet roaster, might well wish they had spent the extra money on one of these. Which if they go ahead, would be with us in less than 8 weeks after ordering. it's not going to be for everyone though, as it's quite heavy and would need to be sited in a workshop...I suppose it could be on a steel roller trolly, but it's never going to used in someone's house. For me the risk of 1 kilo of beans being roasted in a house, is simply not worth it.

 

The main thing about it is whether by design or serendipity the core of the roaster, drum and heating element design, they got absolutely perfect in terms of giving an even chaff free roast, with a great tolerance to high charge temps with no scorching. My main beef was with thermometry and control...I had others but those were easier to address. I actually installed my own thermocouple (made a thermowell for it as well) to see exactly what was happening with the bean mass/env temps, as the roaster did not have one, just that big (fairly useless) analogue gauge, although it looks pretty. it told me what I needed to know, with respect to all the changes I wanted, plus potential probe placements (as there will be more than 1 and more than 1 type), without compromising the drum. The problem is the vanes of the drum and ensuring the probe is deep enough into the roaster, but not so deep in contacts them. This makes placement difficult and limits exactly where you can put them. I don't want to change the vanes on the drum or anything about the drum...because that part is perfect.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Just had some good news, they have agreed to all my changes and it looks as if it's going to get the green light, a deal seems to have been reached. Only one worrying comment in their reply, it may be a chinglish thing, or it may be them wriggling trying to save cost, either way, I'm not going to let them get away with changing anything to save money if it makes it perform worse.

 

I'm very pleased about this as it's a very good roaster indeed and I have invested a lot of test time into it, as well as having to make certain things and fit them to the roaster to verify the correctness of changes I want. I personally hate to waste my time on things that don't come to the market, especially the amount of time I've spent on this roaster.

 

It can also roast really quite fast, but I dislike super fast roasting as it tends to raise the Environmental temperature and hence thermal stresses on the roaster e.g. heating elements, lubrication, belts etc.., because the bean temp always lags behind it and to force the roast, requires much higher environmental temps....plus relatively low airflow. neither of which is great for taste, especially on dry processed coffees. On this particular test roaster, I've managed a Kilo in around 9m to medium dark, but I wouldn't really want to roast that fast normally....all this at a max 2.5kW draw!


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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For anyone that is interested, I added a few photos of the drum assembly and heating elements to the Album, it's the last 7 or 8 photos

 

https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/rXn07M

 

It shows the double skinned chamber with the air inlet slots at the top. The stainless steel perforated drum is inside that. The drum itself is about 1.5mm thick stainless with a very thick front ring to prevent distortion and a substantial solid backplate, so rear bearing lubrication is never a worry. The heating elements wrap around about the top 60% of the drum, not the bottom, and I prefer this much better than bottom placement....it also gives nice even heating. As you can see the heating elements are super substantial, more so than on any electric roasters I have seen..and certainly much heftier than my Toper!

 

The entire removable drum assembly with heating elements and bearing is around 6kg+ in weight, it's a lot heavier than I thought it would be. you can also get a better sense for the very thick front plate of the roaster as it can be clearly seen in the first of the new photos with the cowling removed.

 

I wasn't going to bother uploading these, but then I thought as I have to photo it for my records and any later maintenance procedures, you might as well see it.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Wow.

 

I'm not into roasting and likely never will be but who wouldn't want that sat in their office? What a beautiful machine.

 

It does look pretty...but at the moment the remaining fly in the ointment to importing them, is spares prices. The Chinese are trying it on with high spares prices and one of the important features of owning a roaster is that spares are affordable and easy to get hold of, not so expensive that retailers do not want to hold stocks. I want to ensure the community has a roaster that is:

 

 

  • capable of great roasting
  • well designed
  • easy to use and a pleasure to use
  • cheap to buy
  • reliable (as far as anything can be that roasts coffee all day)
  • easy and affordable to maintain

 

In some respects the items seem mutually exclusive, which is what makes negotiations difficult. I'd like everything, but I have to be reasonable, so I want everything that's important and that has a price. What I won't have is the manufacturer trying to make excessive profit on maintenance items. One thing I am grateful for it the opportunity to detail the changes I want to this roaster, to make it the best it can be, for the design and price.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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That heating element is impressive - well, the whole thing is!

 

Will start counting out my coppers jar and writing letters to Santa....


Lots of everything: machines, grinders, roaster, beans, tampers, baskets, blah, blah

However - Too much is never enough!

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Hi Dave

 

Really interesting to read your thread, thx for it.

 

Spoke to you in another thread about the Bullet R1. My main gripe about these type of roasters is you can't program them (same with the CBR 1200). I want to be able to program it as I need to be doing other things for the first part of the Roast. I only really want to attend the last critical part & once warmed up and roasting the same bean & profile set, could leave it to the machine.

 

Nobody apart from the bullet seems to be addressing this. (yup agree it's un-tried and tested roaster, so we'll see how it roasts :) When you have time or it's your full time occupation these machines are lovely, but if time is short these kind of small roasters need to help you a little more.

 

Wonder what you think?

Edited by Coffeejon

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Hi Dave

 

Really interesting to read your thread, thx for it.

 

Spoke to you in another thread about the Bullet R1. My main gripe about these type of roasters is you can't program them (same with the CBR 1200). I want to be able to program it as I need to be doing other things for the first part of the Roast. I only really want to attend the last critical part & once warmed up and roasting the same bean & profile set, could leave it to the machine.

 

Nobody apart from the bullet seems to be addressing this. (yup agree it's un-tried and tested roaster, so we'll see how it roasts :) When you have time or it's your full time occupation these machines are lovely, but if time is short these kind of small roasters need to help you time wise more.

 

Wonder what you think?

 

 

Well I can certainly see the attraction of using an automated system/computer to roast, although I have not ever used one. I do prefer to pay attention to the roaster, it doesn't stop me doing other things, but I'm not sure I would feel comfortable letting an automated system just get on with things. I prefer to check things are going as I expect and make a small adjustment if they are not...but that just may be a preference thing.

 

With the Bullet R1, there does seem to be the ability to connect it to a computer and so program the roast. On paper it looks an interesting roaster and possibly ground breaking.....it will be interesting to see it properly tested by people other than the manufacturer. There are still some unanswered questions for me, but hopefully these will be covered in the months following people receiving their roasters. I'm currently interested in

 

1. How it handles smoke, especially when roasting 0.5 to 1Kg

2. How people will vent it and is the airflow powerful enough for it to vent well through a few meters of duct.

3. When they will make the vent attachment

4. How the tryer is going to work, they say they will make bits allowing you to add it 3 months after the roaster is launched, but from the renderings, It's difficult to see how it will miss the 3 front support vanes of the drum, unless that's been changed?

5. What happens if you have a roaster fire, 1kg beans catching fire (will the legs melt, will it be contained, will the roaster be trashed), have they even tested this. Important because this is quite a lightweight design and there is use of plastics.

6. How will it work when roasting a full Kg

7. How much do parts cost and what's the availability

8. How will the warranty be supported, I realise preorders are 2 years parts and labour, but what exactly is the warranty?

9. What happens if they go under

 

As for reliability, no one can really say until it's been out a while as it's a very new design. I think it looks good and I think it's an excellent price for the home market. How will it roast will no doubt be reported on by many happy owners, but I will be interested to see how people with experience in the 1kg market find the results. I do love the idea of inductive heating though, even if it does restrict you to a mainly solid drum..

 

I'm pretty sure it would be possible for someone with the right knowledge to convert most manual roasters to to a computer roast program and control the heating elements that way. It does seem that small commercial craft roasters prefer not to though. At the end of the day a roaster at it's simplest, splits into 2 parts....the heating and the control system. The heating system can't really be changed for any roaster, it is what it is. The control system, on the other hand can be modified and added to over time by the owner. Sometimes a roaster works well because of this areas design, sometimes...it doesn't. Things I like are heating sources that are not at the bottom of the drum, or if they are, are indirect. I prefer the heat across the widest area of the drum possible. I like perforated drums (all round or back) and dislike totally solid ones. I especially like power control on roasters and dislike using air or on/off control to manage temperature. With power control (not temperature control) comes a lot of repeatability on electric roasters, because you know how much you're applying rather than reacting to something when it doesn't go as expected. I may add power control to my own Amazon Dalian is power control, in the same way I modded my CBR1200. As I have a second power control module (I bought 2 when they were £13 each).

 

I also like roasters to be as safe as they can be and tough enough to reasonably contain a roaster fire.....with the use of a CO2 extinguisher if necessary. I would NEVER EVER want to roast a Kg of beans in the house and would strongly advise people against doing so.

 

Here is an example of the 1st 2 roasts of the day, earlier this week, arguably the roaster was still warming up as you can see by the low charge temperature of the first roast. I introduced airflow at about 5m into the roast...in the second roast I introduced more air (to actually slow the roast).

 

 

  • Roast 1. Brazilian to Medium Dark (a little too fast for me). Charge temp 143C, 1st crack 9m 30s, End of Roast 12m 40s

  • Roast 2. Brazilian to Medium Dark (way too fast for me). Charge temp 171C, 1st crack 8m 20s, End of Roast 11m 20s and pretty dark too......my ideal would be to stretch this roast out a little more.

 

 

I also need to do some other tests, especially roasting 1.2Kg as this gives you 1kg of roasted and I think the roaster should easily handle more than1kg. especially as with a 1Kg batch size you could roast 5kg per hour if you wanted to roast it really fast...which I wouldn't. At the moment though, no more testing until the revised units come from China with the 2 in drum sensors one for Bean temp and one for ET/process control.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Things I like are heating sources that are not at the bottom of the drum, or if they are, are indirect. I prefer the heat across the widest area of the drum possible.

 

RE Bullet, As I understand induction, it heats the drum directly (I.e the actual drum is the heating element) so you should get the widest possible heating source possible, as the whole drum should be roughly the same temp.

 

i agree with all your points though.

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RE Bullet, As I understand induction, it heats the drum directly (I.e the actual drum is the heating element) so you should get the widest possible heating source possible, as the whole drum should be roughly the same temp.

 

i agree with all your points though.

 

you are correct, induction heats the drum itself...I suspect only the portion of the drum directly above the induction coil heats, but as the drum is turning fairly quickly, that's not really a problem....

Edited by DavecUK

ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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I've been thinking of modding the gene with a bean mass probe. This guy went all out and added his own thermocouples to the element and exhaust for data logging too. The whole thing is controlled via a computer so automation is possible. http://roasthacker.com/?p=67


Expobar DB Office Leva IV, La Pavoni Professional -- FOR SALE: MBK HEFT, Torr Goldfinger Titan Convex & 58.55 Flat -- Ceado E8, Lido E, Pharos VDD -- 2 and 5 cup Syphons; Vintage Nicro Metal Filter -- Gene Cafe CBR101 with Dimmer Mod and Bean Mass Probe

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Hi Dave,

 

How has your testing gone with this? Are you still smitten?

 

Is this now in the hands of the Manufacturer to introduce the changes and then discuss with BB?

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Hi Dave,

 

How has your testing gone with this? Are you still smitten?

 

Is this now in the hands of the Manufacturer to introduce the changes and then discuss with BB?

 

All the changes I asked for are being done. I had to limit myself to production practical changes that maintain CE.....The manufacturer will be delivering the modified roasters to BB just after christmas...I have already seen mid production photos. I will then retest as I need to write a user guide...but also to confirm the changes are working as expected and correct the thermometry issues with the current roaster....which I have modified, it's not an ideal mod, but does test the production principles.

 

I personally will add a power controller to mine (when it comes) in addition to the other changes. In fact I already bought what should be a suitable one for less than £6 from china and it will mount using a single drilled hole in one of the removable panels. Wiring in will simply be connecting one of the heater wires to one terminal on the power controller and then placing wire from the power controllers second terminal to the heating element. Poking the potentiometer stalk through the panel and tightening the nut. This would be to give me the extra tight control I like, airflow is OK, but adding full power control is even better from my own perspective.

 

Am I still smitten with it...yes, I like it very much.

Edited by DavecUK

ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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A friend popped over to grab some coffee yesterday and as I didn't have enough, I thought I would quickly roast a few kg. Then I realised it was a good opportunity to test an over capacity roast. It was the first roast after warmup of 18m and I placed 1.2Kg in the roaster. Apart from the usual minute extra on any first roast of the day, the roast went completely normally....the same as If I had only loaded 1kg, it's normal capacity. The ability to roast 20% over capacity in the same time and just as evenly is quite impressive. I was pretty sure 1200g was a definite possibility, because the roasting drum is quite large and also perforated which helps with that big wraparound heating element. The roast was also perfectly even and chaff free, the same as a 1kg roast.

 

As to why 1.2Kg is an important break point is because 1200g greens roasted always give you just over a kg green, allowing 4 x 250g bags or 2 500g bags. For small batch roasting it's just handy.

Edited by DavecUK

ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Lovely looking roaster. Loving all the work you are putting into developing it.

 

it has been a lot of work, but have had some even better news today from the Chinese factory. We have had some more discussions and I have pushed them a little harder, so we're getting a few extra nice to have things as well. My basic concern when I first got the roaster was the relative lack of thermometry and control of the roast. It worked but was very very basic. Fortunately the pure mechanical design of the roaster, drum etc.. was so good that it allowed it to function quite well. In fact the mechanical side was simple, strong and perhaps just luck, but something about it works fantastically well, plus the heating element was absolutely the best design I have ever seen in a drum roaster. It has very very low watts per sq cm and covers a very large area outside the perforated drum. Much of this is what makes it able to roast at 20% above it's rated capacity (tested by me). In addition a heavy rear bearing that can be lubricated with NO possibility of lubricant getting into the roast chamber ever and a front maintenance free self lubricating bush. Although of course, I will be using a tiny maintenance routine for this as I like belt and braces.

 

My thoughts were how much better/easier to use this could be with some changes and changes that are not just marketing fluff. We should be getting:

 

  • 3 thermal sensors, 2 in the process (beans) and one in the outer drum chamber

  • Two high quality Platinum resistance probes connected to 2 independent controllers for process (bean) and outer drum chamber temps

  • The 3rd K type thermocouple sensor for connection to roast logging programs such as Artisan etc...

  • The temperature of the process and external temperature around the roasting drum can be monitored/controlled independently

 

there are a lot of smaller items also changed, just because it made things a little nicer and the special chaff removal function essential to commercial operators. The last 2 points are more research points by me, during my investigations, especially around alternate sources of parts in the UK. Some parts can only be sourced from abroad, such as motors, although suitable substitute motors could be used with mounting changes...but the ones from China cost so much less. The only really bespoke parts apart from the metalwork, is the heating element which has to be bought from the manufacturer. All other parts can be sourced independently from the manufacturer (which is a very good thing).

 

 

 

  • Additional earth Bonding (beyond CE requirements) for the chaff collector (because I wasn't 100% happy)
  • Addition of specific chaff removal function, with safety heating element lock out (as is a full pulled air roaster, minimises any smoke release internally, but causes problems without a chaff removal function)
  • Improvements to cooling tray flap locking mechanism
  • Cooling tray access hole and panel moved from back to front of roaster
  • Extra Stand-off and support for powered chaff collector fan cable
  • Easy repair
  • Good parts availability (many parts can be bought cheaply in the UK, relay, belts, switches), parts that cannot, will be stocked

 

 

Here is an example of just the front control panel, before and after the redesign (factory photo).

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/shares/1d2620

 

So looking forward to getting the redesigned roasters in Feb. They are a bespoke design for BB, and I'm not sure what pricing will be exactly, I just know it will be hugely competitive for what you're getting. Probably a lot cheaper than any comparable (and some lesser) commercial 1kg drum roasters on the market. I think BB may do a pre-order deal sometime in January, but that will probably be once they are completely paid for by BB and ready for shipping from China. I just have to make sure they don't sell the one earmarked for a permanent place in my workshop!!

Edited by DavecUK

ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Have you had all the revision parts sent for yours then?

 

No, even though I used test sensors (placed as best as I could) and manual control to check it would all would work. Plus some was calculations, physics and experience. I HAVE to have a new build roaster, because even once preorders are done, I will be doing extensive testing and user guide. As basic roasting techniques (which will be different), tips and tricks, basic maintenance...all has to be covered. In addition I need to make absolutely sure everything is exactly as it should be. The existing test roaster can't easily be revised e.g. the front plate of the roaster is 14mm thick (which is like very very thick for a 1kg roaster, many 5+Kg roasters don't have front plates that thick), it's going to be very difficult for me to accurately drill through and then I would still have to tap a thread... Plus all the photography has to reflect the final roaster.

 

The front panel and electronics has been completely revised as well as the additional probes, not even the original single sensor is in the same place......so much it's just easier to get the revised roaster. Fortunately this ones already been snapped up by a local friend who understands what it is and what it won't have, although it does have some extra test sensors I put in myself. Once the new roaster comes he will get this one at a good knock down price...which will be less than it cost BB.

 

One thing I will be doing, (once the reviews are over) is the full power control mod on the new roaster....it's so easy and I already bought the parts £5.60 delivered for the power controller...that will appear shortly after as an allowable non warranty affecting mod on the Coffeetime Wiki. The main reason for the mod is just the extra level of control it brings to my roasting and for me I like to have as much absolute control over the process as I can. I would have asked the factory to include it....but I think I'd have lost the will to live trying to con vince them and then there is the language barrier.....a lot has to be done by electrical diagrams and computer drawings by me, to absolutely ensure they 100% understand me and I 100% understand them.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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So when do you expect to receive the newer version to test?

 

Can't remember how long the sea shipping is from China, probably 4-5 weeks, I would have thought build of 6 roasters will be ready by 1st week of Jan, so probably land in UK mid to late Feb 2016. I'll get one of the 6 roasters and I think the other 5 might well sell on the pre-order deal before they land in the UK. After that, assuming all is well production starts in batches of 10 roasters. It's a significant investment for BB, but they believe it's actually nice to have roasters in stock when someone wants one.....novel idea I know ;)

 

I realise it's all taken a long time to get this roaster sorted, but better it's done right and we get the best we can in the UK....otherwise you might as well go to any Chinese/Turkish supplier and by a standard roaster on spec...at which point your problems might begin in terms of support, parts, instructions and how it works....plus you're not going to save much if anything after shipping, import and VAT, plus other customes charges and UK shipping... and that's against standard roasters not the bespoke one for BB. Personally, I think it's better not to stock/sell a roaster if it's no good....and it's not even my money.

 

P.S. I am pretty sure mine won't be air freighted as the cost for that is simply horrible

Edited by DavecUK

ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Special heads up for forum members. I have had some communication and photos from China, all the modifications are finished the roasters are built and in a few days should load onto a ship bound for the UK. Everything has been done exactly to my requirements. The big changes to thermometry were to make a roaster that already roasts well even better, in terms of ease of roasting, controllability, thermal information and repeatability.

 

This should allow those who want to use roast logging software easy connection via standard methods and I suppose those who really want to computerise the roaster (not me), the ability to do so if they are very clever.

 

I have had more information on final pricing. There will be 6 roasters coming, all in the Golden colour as in the photos earlier in this thread, this is at no extra cost. The standard option option is steel. One is mine, there will be one demo one for Bella Barista, with 4 pre order launch ones available. The Pre order launch pricing will be extremely attractive at significantly less than 3K including VAT, so keep your eye out on the BB web site if you have been considering it....the price, for a commercial roaster of this class, is incredible and there will be only 4 at the special price!

 

The standard pricing is also going to be pretty competitive and a lot cheaper than any comparable roaster in it's class.

 

A few stats:

 

  • Weight 50+kg (I estimate nearer 60Kg-70kg), it's packed weight is 80Kg, but it's easier to transport in the back of any hatchback car, rather than have it delivered. 2 reasonably fit people can lift this roaster, one person cannot.
  • Stated Capacity 1 kg batch (Max tested capacity 1.2kg batch,and roast verified OK as I'm drinking it now), max throughput per hour 6kg (medium roast or very fast roasting) 4.8Kg per hour normal/slower roasting and darker roasts.
  • Voltage 220-240V (heating elements tested for this range)
  • Supports back to back roasting
  • Cooling in Separate cooling tray
  • Separate Chaff Cyclone (supplied)
  • 3 motors (cooling tray arms, drum, airflow fan)
  • 2 series connected controllers for temperature control (either can cut the heat), allowing rate of rise and/or max bean temp to be controlled, hi limit temperature (optional alarm)
  • Controllable airflow (manual)
  • 3 Temperature sensors, PT100 sensors connect to dual temperature controllers: Bean Mass PT100, Drum outer chamber environment (PT100), Bean Mass/Environmental for roast logging software e.g. Artisan etc..(K type thermocouple)
  • Gold Coloured Finish as standard
  • Special Chaff removal function, allowing continuous roasting even when chaff is being removed
  • Max wattage at 242V is around 2380W, so only requires around 10 amps...e.g. a normal 13 amp plug will do
  • Plug and lead with built in RCD
  • Tryer so roast colour can be examined outside roaster, plus viewing window
  • 14mm thick front plate (approx)...and that's very very thick!
  • Rear bearing external to roasting drum, high temperature lubricants cannot cause a contamination issue, front bearing is high grade self lubricating bush. No bearing adjustments are ever necessary.
  • Many parts can easily be sourced in the UK from vendors like RS components, and drum belts from places like Halfords, believe it or not
  • Roast times can

 

Remember, this is a commercial roaster, designed to be roasting all day...not a domestic roaster. It's not designed to be used in your house or apartment, there will be far too much smoke for that...unless of course you vent it through the wall. it takes 15-20m to warm up and 15-20m to cool down, roasts are essentially chaff free (which is unusual) and can be bagged from the cooling tray. I have not tried a minimum batch size, but I would think no less than 500g

 

P.S. Power control mod instructions will be available for you to do yourself if you want to and will not affect warranty

Edited by DavecUK

ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Would you say this is aimed at people who are beginning to sell beans Dave, rather than the Home roaster roasting just for themselves?

 

I assume it is in a different class to the yet to be released or tested Aillio, considering its price is likely to be 1k or so higher... but then the Aillio is a serious consideration for the keen prosumer who wants to roast their own beans, does this offer that segment of the market anything over the Aillio?

 

I know this is all hypothetical until the Aillio is in hand and can be properly compared, but its interesting to know where you consider these to fit in the market.

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1. Would you say this is aimed at people who are beginning to sell beans Dave, rather than the Home roaster roasting just for themselves?

 

2. I assume it is in a different class to the yet to be released or tested Aillio, considering its price is likely to be 1k or so higher... but then the Aillio is a serious consideration for the keen prosumer who wants to roast their own beans, does this offer that segment of the market anything over the Aillio?

 

3. I know this is all hypothetical until the Aillio is in hand and can be properly compared, but its interesting to know where you consider these to fit in the market.

 

Some very big questions there

 

1. Yes this is a commercial roaster aimed at those who are beginning their first steps into the roasting business. This will prepare you for life with a larger drum roaster, the addition of a power controller (cost less than £10) would also prepare you for a gas drum roaster with a proper and expensive, fully modulating gas train (rather than a normal fixed on/off burner)...should you be lucky enough to step up to one of those. This then allows you to fix airflow and roast on thermal input should you desire.

 

2. It is in a different class in terms of construction, it's very simple, very easy to repair. There is not a lot to go wrong and most fixes can be done with basic tools in less than 15m. e.g. Replace: front bearing

 

In terms of hi tech electronics and computer control the Aillio is way ahead of not only this roaster, but most others on the market. Does the Bullet make a good roaster for the prosumer who wants to roast 1kg..on the face of it, and based on the information available, then yes it does. Although a cautionary note (see below).

You mentioned yet to be released or tested. This model of Amazon roaster has been released and around for years. It has clearly been thoroughly tested by me and although it roasted real good, there were areas I wanted improved, like structural layout, assembly/design, thermometry, chaff removal, safety and suitability for a commercial environment all addressed, even down to extra securing nuts on the heating elements. I spent many many hours researching parts costs and availability, so that a decent cost could be available for customers and in many cases you can source your parts direct from UK companies. You can see in the photos on Flikr, that I pretty much stripped the roaster right down., which doesn't take long and requires only 1 or 2 hex bits, plus a small socket set.

 

I have roasted a LOT of coffee on it now (mine is a pre modification roaster), in fact it's the only roaster I have used since Oct 15, all my roast sharers have noticed the difference in a good way....especially the lack of chaff on the beans which is exceptional, my old toper left lots more chaff than this. Even little things like the cooling tray stirrers actually work and clear all the beans from the tray come time to bag up. Cooling is excellent, literally a couple of minutes, absolutely no problems there. Roasts super, super even, best I have ever seen from a roaster, right up there with a 1960s Probat 25kg roaster I used. It's unusual (but correct) for a Retailer to request a roaster is thoroughly tested, stripped down photographed....and then changes made if required, rather than the retailer just starting to sell them?

You lastly asked if it offers the prosumer market segment anything over the Aillio...this is a difficult one, because I have not tested the Aillio yet. It would be easy to say the Bullet is cheaper, has fancy electronics and software (it even speaks apparently), it's lighter and more portable, it uses induction (more modern) and looks modern. However, the Allio ships without a Tryer and a bean Tryer is more important than people realise (unless you have a fantastic view of the beans like on the CBR1200 and then it's only colour). With a Tryer you get a look at static unmoving beans out under your normal standardised roasting light. you can see expansion (frogs and toads), plus other clues and colour that is hard (impossible) to see in a moving bean mass, or behind a small viewing window. It's also possible, but you would need to be quick, to pull enough samples at say 20 second intervals (2 or 3 fast samples of 4-5g every 20 seconds), to be able to grind 10-12g and cup them for aroma and taste. so in the last 2 minutes of a roast you could pull 5 or 6 samples to try. It's what a lot of roasters do on the much larger roaster, on the big probat a single sample would pull around 15g+ of beans.

 

In the event of a fire, the Amazon roasters drum can be left turning but all the airflow stopped and all ventilation to the drum closed, this allows a fire to burn itself out inside the roaster without drum distortion (because you stopped it rotating), the front bush is immune to the sort of temperatures it could reach, the rear bearing can be re-lubricated. The roaster opened and the drum/drum chamber cleaned, the heating elements cleaned and the roaster returned to service. You "might" have to replace the belt at the cost of a few pounds (I doubt it would break, but it might get overheated), all the electronics, fans, motors should be fine. It would be a few hours work to clean it up, but you should be good to go again. in this scenario it's simplicity and ruggedness (weight of metal), works for you.

 

The Amazon forces you to roast your 1 or 1.2Kg of beans in a workshop and vent it either out of a window, or through the wall, it's too heavy to carry this into your kitchen to roast under a cooker hood. Roasting smoke is an irritant and presumably potentially carcinogenic. I certainly wouldn't want to breathe a lot of it in. A roaster stinks and this stink is directly proportional to it's size. I think the smell of a 1kg roaster stored in the house or apartment would become unpleasant. For me, the restriction of having to use the Amazon it in a proper environment.....it's a good thing.

 

Traditional drum roasters go on for decades, sure they might need a new belt, sometimes a motor, perhaps a heating element....but they will go on for decades. this is because they are so simple. The Amazon roaster 10 years on, should look the same as the day you bought it, assuming you do the basics to look after it. It's likely to have most (all) the same parts it had when new, except perhaps a belt a relay and perhaps a heating element. If you sell it, you would probably get what you paid for it and it would be easy to sell....I guess that's quite an attractive prospect for a Prosumer customer and some will roast share and cover some of the cost of the roaster that way.

 

3. The Aillio Bullet roaster "should" (a guess) fit the needs of most prosumer home roasters, some will buy it and use it as a commercial roaster, but I am not sure that's a good idea and certainly their warranty would be most likely be void. The Amazon "will" (because it's designed that way) meet the needs of the commercial roaster and the prosumer who is thinking about becoming a commercial roaster or roasting for their shop, cart etc.. There is also the prosumer roaster with a workshop, time and inclination to really get hands on over every aspect of the roasting process, someone who wants the best roast possible. The extra 800-1000 extra costis not a major consideration, they know they can always get most/all of it back. There won't be many prosumer roasters like this, but for those few...the Amazon "will" deliver.

 

It has become my favourite roaster, I love using it, it's very tactile and you feel connected with the whole roasting in a way only possible with this type of roaster. sure it takes a while to warm up and cool down, but I love using it....that's really important and the coffee from it is fantastic!

 

P.S. Chaff is a little obsession of mine and I do everything I can to remove all of it. With the 1kg Toper I used to stand outside in the breeze tipping the beans from one basket to another for a few minutes, with the CBR 1200, I do the same for about 40-60 sec...there's still a little chaff left of course. With the Big Probat, running it through the destoner got rid of a lot of chaff...the beans from the Amazon come out with almost nothing on them in terms of chaff. I don't like chaff at all because I firmly believe it imparts undesirable flavours to the cup

 

 

 

Cautionary Note: I also have the El Roccio Zarre espresso machine on test. Lots of things claimed/implied about the machine, by the manufacturer and by people who have "seen" it in action, or tried it. So much so that people even believe it does things it doesn't. I am testing it and it's quite a different machine not quite what I expected.


ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DB (paddle flow control) BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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Thx Dave, interesting write up. I may have a look if at BB.

 

On a side note, I think Gene Cafe are missing a trick on their CBR-101 roaster. They are the perfect step before this and the bullet, all they need to add is a way to control the roasting similar to the Bullet, so you can set bean profiles, control from a computer etc. If they did this it would be the ultimate small roaster (also then port it over to the CBR-1200) I'd would buy these directly if they did, carn't be a huge mod for them?

Edited by Coffeejon

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