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Mrboots2u

Beginners Reading - Weighing Espresso - Brew Ratios

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..... Adjust via taste ....

@Mrboots2u - recently I saw a flavour profile guide for coffee that outlined where in the brewing process the different elements of the coffee flavours were generated i.e. fruity, bitter and sweet. It gave a guide for how the brew pressure, temperature and length can affect the flavour and how you might adjust the variables to get the most out of a bean. Cannot find it now. Have you seen anything like this?

 

Have included a funky coffee flavour profile wheel that I use to define the shots I brew:

 

coffee_tasting_flavor_wheel.jpg

https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/learn/coffee-101/articles/coffee-flavor-profiles

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@Mrboots2u - recently I saw a flavour profile guide for coffee that outlined where in the brewing process the different elements of the coffee flavours were generated i.e. fruity, bitter and sweet. It gave a guide for how the brew pressure, temperature and length can affect the flavour and how you might adjust the variables to get the most out of a bean. Cannot find it now. Have you seen anything like this?

 

Have included a funky coffee flavour profile wheel that I use to define the shots I brew:

 

https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/learn/coffee-101/articles/coffee-flavor-profiles

 

This is the latest flavour wheel, from the Speciality Coffee Association of America, and information on the research they did to create it: http://www.scaa.org/chronicle/2016/01/19/reinventing-the-flavor-wheel-industry-collaborates-to-identify-coffee-flavor-attributes/

 

I haven't seen that page you mention about changing things to get different tastes but would be very interested if anybody finds it.


Everything my heart could desire (more or less). . .

 

https://cupperjoe.com

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Indeed the flavour wheel seems more a tool to describe the flavours in coffee, assuming a reasonable extraction, rather than a way to make all coffees taste like a particular thing.


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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I think weighing is the right way to go when you start out or move to a new machine / grinder set-up. Then, I suggest you can benefit from using your own experience, judgement and taste preferences. Sometimes the generic guides on dose need to be modified to fit your machine or indeed your taste.

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I think weighing is the right way to go when you start out or move to a new machine / grinder set-up. Then, I suggest you can benefit from using your own experience, judgement and taste preferences. Sometimes the generic guides on dose need to be modified to fit your machine or indeed your taste.

 

If you don't know what you have weighed in/out, how can you relate what you are tasting to the changes you are making to reinforce what your judgement & preferences are telling you?

 

It's pretty hard to establish how consistent you are being if you don't know what you are starting with, or ending up with. When you establish a preference, being able to consistently hit it is a good thing & that's where weighing comes in.


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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Great articles and very helpful Mr Boots. Now that I've had my new toys for a week or two and having spent many hours reading on the subject I wonder if someone can clarify something for me. Since buying the setup I have been sticking to BB Brazilian Vale do Sol beans and an 18g VST basket. I dialled in the grinder to get 18g/36g in 28s and I love the taste. My good lady finds the 36g too strong in a 6oz latte so I have been splitting it into her cup and a shot glass. I drink the shot and make her latte with the cup. All is happy with the world. I then make myself a 10oz latte with 36g. While it is very nice, I would like it stronger. I also have a VST 22g basket so I would like to try using that for the 10oz latte. I see in an earlier post you say don't get hung up on the time, so to maintain the flavour I am getting with the 18g basket, do I extract 44g from the 22g basket irrespective of the time it takes? Or do I need to redial the grinder to get 44g in 25-30s? I really do not want to have to dial in the grinder for each drink.

 

I also have a VST 7g basket for singles which I haven't tried yet. Let's say I have some friends round and one wants a single 6oz latte, one wants a double normale espresso and one wants a treble 10oz latte. How do I achieve this without changing the grinder?


Quick Mill Verona, Eureka Olympus 75E with TiN burrs

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Great articles and very helpful Mr Boots. Now that I've had my new toys for a week or two and having spent many hours reading on the subject I wonder if someone can clarify something for me. Since buying the setup I have been sticking to BB Brazilian Vale do Sol beans and an 18g VST basket. I dialled in the grinder to get 18g/36g in 28s and I love the taste. My good lady finds the 36g too strong in a 6oz latte so I have been splitting it into her cup and a shot glass. I drink the shot and make her latte with the cup. All is happy with the world. I then make myself a 10oz latte with 36g. While it is very nice, I would like it stronger. I also have a VST 22g basket so I would like to try using that for the 10oz latte. I see in an earlier post you say don't get hung up on the time, so to maintain the flavour I am getting with the 18g basket, do I extract 44g from the 22g basket irrespective of the time it takes? Or do I need to redial the grinder to get 44g in 25-30s? I really do not want to have to dial in the grinder for each drink.

 

I also have a VST 7g basket for singles which I haven't tried yet. Let's say I have some friends round and one wants a single 6oz latte, one wants a double normale espresso and one wants a treble 10oz latte. How do I achieve this without changing the grinder?

 

Are all your friends baristas? ;~]

 

Mine mostly just ask for coffee!

 

If you want to keep it simple I'd stick to the one sized basket and control the flavour of the drinks by amount of milk/size of vessel... So if 10oz is not 'strong' enough for you (or your guests) then make 6oz. Or 8.

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Great articles and very helpful Mr Boots. Now that I've had my new toys for a week or two and having spent many hours reading on the subject I wonder if someone can clarify something for me. Since buying the setup I have been sticking to BB Brazilian Vale do Sol beans and an 18g VST basket. I dialled in the grinder to get 18g/36g in 28s and I love the taste. My good lady finds the 36g too strong in a 6oz latte so I have been splitting it into her cup and a shot glass. I drink the shot and make her latte with the cup. All is happy with the world. I then make myself a 10oz latte with 36g. While it is very nice, I would like it stronger. I also have a VST 22g basket so I would like to try using that for the 10oz latte. I see in an earlier post you say don't get hung up on the time, so to maintain the flavour I am getting with the 18g basket, do I extract 44g from the 22g basket irrespective of the time it takes? Or do I need to redial the grinder to get 44g in 25-30s? I really do not want to have to dial in the grinder for each drink.

 

I also have a VST 7g basket for singles which I haven't tried yet. Let's say I have some friends round and one wants a single 6oz latte, one wants a double normale espresso and one wants a treble 10oz latte. How do I achieve this without changing the grinder?

 

I'd just make 3 doubles splitting one of them between the single & 1/3 of the tripple. Surely the coffee won't degrade that much in the time it takes to brew the other 2/3rds of the coffee required.


Laissez les bons temps rouler

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Hi,

 

I just had a quick question about this method, I'm a bit confused about what variable affects what in the flavour profile.

Basically, say i extract a shot 18g>36g at 25s and it's a bit sour, do I then make the grind a bit finer? Then I'm guessing the time of extraction will increase, but does that matter too much, as long as it is within 20-35s?

 

What does the ratio determine in terms of flavour then? So using a 1:1.6 compared to a 1:2.5, what difference would I notice in the flavour?

 

Thanks a lot for your help

Rory

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Hi,

 

I just had a quick question about this method, I'm a bit confused about what variable affects what in the flavour profile.

Basically, say i extract a shot 18g>36g at 25s and it's a bit sour, do I then make the grind a bit finer? Then I'm guessing the time of extraction will increase, but does that matter too much, as long as it is within 20-35s?

 

What does the ratio determine in terms of flavour then? So using a 1:1.6 compared to a 1:2.5, what difference would I notice in the flavour?

 

Thanks a lot for your help

Rory

 

Bear time in mind but don't kill the shot by it, keep grinding finer at 18:36 until you shake the sourness...record the time, if it's bananas long, maybe coarsen up & try longer ratio, like 1:2.3 or 1:2.5. Shots at a consistent weight will be more consistent than those at a consistent time but varying weight, extraction may vary by less than half a %EY (small margin) but vary by 5 or 6 seconds (20% of shot time).

 

Ideally, a 1.1.6 shot and a 1:2.5 shot ideally extracted should taste similar but the 1:1.6 shot will be thicker in mouthfeel and more concentrated. In reality, short shots can be much harder to extract properly, so a lot of folk will under-extract the 1:1.6 shot. The 1:2.5 shot will be easier to hit sweetness & ripe fruit acidity, getting past sourness...but it will be less concentrated, lower in mouthfeel.

 

The important thing is, when you hit something you like, you know how to repeat it, by sticking to the brew ratio and using grind as the main variable.


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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I also have a quick question if you could be so kind. For the first 5-6 seconds of my shot the pressure is building and no coffee is forthcoming. Should I time from when I pull the lever or from when the coffee starts to pour?


Ve ve suvivius.... /E37s/ Eazytamp / tupperware pot / completely healthy relationship with coffee (and bank manager).

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I have added a small edit at the end of this article , as people seem to get stuck on a 1:2 ratio as the gospel ( which it isn't ) .

Cheers


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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There is some great advice in this thread!

 

I've recently started weighing my dose and my shot to a ratio of 1:2. This has been getting me some good results but I have found it interesting to play around with this though and to see how much different extractions affect the drinking experience.

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Thanks for all the useful information on this thread!

 

I'm very new to espresso. I hope I'm not asking some obviously stupid questions.

 

I'm working in a food joint in which there's an espresso machine I can use and practice. Today I made an espresso and found that it looked a bit too long. I weighed it and to my surprise it was over 50g. I asked a workmate and he said it's because the machine got hotter in the afternoon. He then adjusted the grinder to finer side and we adjusted the recipe till it yielded 36g. However the coffee still didn't taste right. Then another workmate looked at the grinder and said it's too fine (it was usually on 4.5-5 on a Mahlkonig, but the workmate had turned it to 4).

 

I'm confused. I hope someone would be kind enough to enlighten me in the following questions:

 

(1) The espresso recipe seems to go wrong EVERYDAY in the afternoon. Is it really because we made quite a lot of coffee around noon time and the espresso machine got too hot?

 

(2) Is it normal for baristas to check and re-check their recipes throughout the day?

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1. What do you mean goes wrong? Do you mean shots get faster? The recipe shouldn't change (for the same bean & day), same dose, same output, change the grind.

 

2 change as often as it takes to retain flavour balance.

 

Sounds like you are pulling the shot then weighing it. Kill the shot at the same weight, not by eye.


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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Wow great read.. loads of information for me to look into now when getting my first setup dialed in. Thanks

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Evening,

 

I have a Sage DB and it has the function of double expresso (30 Seconds) and a manual start/stop function.

Would you advise using the 30 second function for consistency and adjust my grind to get the input/output ratio of 18g:36g....or use the manual function?

 

I've also read you begin timing from the moment you press the start button/pull the lever (when the pumps start). Is this the case? Or would i time the shot from the moment i see liquid? Thanks for clearing that up.

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Use the manual function & kill the output by weight. If you just use time, your weights & extractions will vary considerably.

 

Time from the moment you hit the button, to the time you kill the pump (maybe a little before you actually achieve final weight in the cup).


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

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