Jump to content
Mrboots2u

Beginners Reading - Weighing Espresso - Brew Ratios

Recommended Posts

Well, that was a truly informative read. Seems so obvious on reflection. I understand that it was assembled from different sources, but thanks for pulling it together in one easy-to-understand series of posts. Now, where are those scales...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These articles should be made compulsory reading before members can join the Coffee Forum:D.

 

Nice job Martin:good:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just thought I would echo other comments - a great guide for beginners like myself. Just weighed out 14grams of Gladiator beans (roasted at The coffee House - Leighton buzzard), extracted for 27 seconds and weighed out 30 grams of espresso. Tasted great although it did take me a while to dial in the grinder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just thought I would echo other comments - a great guide for beginners like myself. Just weighed out 14grams of Gladiator beans (roasted at The coffee House - Leighton buzzard), extracted for 27 seconds and weighed out 30 grams of espresso. Tasted great although it did take me a while to dial in the grinder.

 

 

Opps - correction, "the house of Coffee" it should be and not "the coffee house".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks @Mrboots2u I've spent a happy evening really exploring the extremes of grind size and realised what I thought was working well wasn't quite as good as it seems I actually prefer a marginally quicker extraction than I had before I played around so much! Now all I need is a big group of friends who want to drink espressos that I've taken a sip out of!

 

Is there an alternative to sip n sink? I realise I actually needed to pull 10 shots consecutively but there's no way I could do that with every bean every time....


Did someone say coffee?

:Gaggia Classic--> Nuova Simonelli Oscar--> fracino Cherub:Mazzer SuperJolly:Hario V60+aeropress+french press:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't sip & sink. Sip & spit, but always taste the last sip too. The flavour can change from top to bottom & evolve as you drink, also try transferring to an oversized cup & making sure the drink is well stirred, mixed & cooled.

 

Make a shot, or a few, write down what you have done, note the ones that taste good/bad & why you think that is, then walk away...think about what worked & pick up where you left off. It's very easy to get into a frenzy, waste coffee & come back none the wiser.


“Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

 

https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks. I did make brief notes! I didn't drink the whole shot though.


Did someone say coffee?

:Gaggia Classic--> Nuova Simonelli Oscar--> fracino Cherub:Mazzer SuperJolly:Hario V60+aeropress+french press:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very good article..thanks for that.. And I have question:

If we keep the same brew temp,tamp pressure and after 25sec we get bitter espresso- what we than do? If bitter than we do coarser grind.. If the espresso is sour than the grind need to be finer?


Using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Very good article..thanks for that.. And I have question:

If we keep the same brew temp,tamp pressure and after 25sec we get bitter espresso- what we than do? If bitter than we do coarser grind.. If the espresso is sour than the grind need to be finer?

What would the brew recipe be > weight in > weight out ....

Don't get hung up on a time > kill the shot by weight , not by time

further reading here .....

http://www.baristahustle.com/the-espresso-compass/


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes ofcourse,

I will aim 18gr - 36gr. But if I got bitter than I will try to get same 18gr - 36gr for less time,so I need to use coarser grind?

 

 

Thanks for your time


Using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm right in thinking (re the chart) that "only change the grind if time is significantly off" suggests that time should be somewhere in the 25-35sec range? There's a fair degree of assumed knowledge I'm lacking to make sense of the chart.


Did someone say coffee?

:Gaggia Classic--> Nuova Simonelli Oscar--> fracino Cherub:Mazzer SuperJolly:Hario V60+aeropress+french press:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So for example 17g to 34g in 10secs or 40secs is bad, but 25-35secs is about locating the sweet spot?


Did someone say coffee?

:Gaggia Classic--> Nuova Simonelli Oscar--> fracino Cherub:Mazzer SuperJolly:Hario V60+aeropress+french press:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep. If you get 17>[email protected]" it will probably be sour. Either your grind was way too coarse or you had a fractured puck or other distribution problem leading to channeling (where water finds its way past the coffee, instead of extracting it evenly). Actually 17>[email protected] might be perfectly nice, but if it isn't, go slightly coarser. If it takes a minute or more to get 1:2 then you're probably grinding too tight, and/or tamping too hard and/or overfilling the basket. So at a basic level, 25-35" is a guide. Taste decides where you go from there.


Rocket R58Ceado E37SAeropressAerGrind • Puck Puck cold brew widget • VST 18g basket • Torr Goldfinger 58.5 convex black Ti/walnut tamper • Torr Goldfinger 58.5 flat sharp edge tamper • Big bag o' beans • Triumph Street Triple 675R

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yep. If you get 17>[email protected]" it will probably be sour. Either your grind was way too coarse or you had a fractured puck or other distribution problem leading to channeling (where water finds its way past the coffee, instead of extracting it evenly). Actually 17>[email protected] might be perfectly nice, but if it isn't, go slightly coarser. If it takes a minute or more to get 1:2 then you're probably grinding too tight, and/or tamping too hard and/or overfilling the basket. So at a basic level, 25-35" is a guide. Taste decides where you go from there.

Thanks, the fastest I went was 20secs and sour was definitely the key taste!

 

So does the weight in the basket matter other than will that volume of grounds fit appropriately, so long as a 1:x ratio is maintained? I know some baskets have a recommended weight (with tolerances)


Did someone say coffee?

:Gaggia Classic--> Nuova Simonelli Oscar--> fracino Cherub:Mazzer SuperJolly:Hario V60+aeropress+french press:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You've got a bit of leeway with dose in a basket. It depends on grinder and bean to some extent too - since changing grinder I've found I get a little more headroom for a given weight (but it could be the bean rather than the grinder). VST say +/-1g from nominal (18=17-19). You need some headroom, but too much will cause issues. If you try 14g in a basket designed for 18 or 21, most likely you'll get a very fast pour as the puck turns to sludge mid shot. Your 1:2 ratio is a guide. Taste will also be affected by temperature. But if you can work out a dose that the basket is happy with, and stick to a ratio to begin with, you can then alter grind to get to your 25-30 seconds. If 18>[email protected] is sour (unlikely), you may be brewing too cool. Classic wants half hour to warm up and also a few mins between shots to get back up to temp. I presume you meant that your fastest shot at 20" was sour, but you had some better ones that you liked? At least if you have the ratio and time you can repeat it (in theory! )


Rocket R58Ceado E37SAeropressAerGrind • Puck Puck cold brew widget • VST 18g basket • Torr Goldfinger 58.5 convex black Ti/walnut tamper • Torr Goldfinger 58.5 flat sharp edge tamper • Big bag o' beans • Triumph Street Triple 675R

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And what is the difference in coffee beans : on some places that I bought from - outputs is like a water.. But from other microroaster leaking is like a honey.

Both of them is Light/Medium roast,and 10days after roasting,and both is (in this case) Ethiopia beans.

 

Thanks


Using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I presume you meant that your fastest shot at 20" was sour, but you had some better ones that you liked? At least if you have the ratio and time you can repeat it (in theory! )

 

Yes that's what I meant. (17>[email protected] worked well) I was experimenting using grind size to affect speed of shot, and wondered whether I would need to change either of the first two (I settled on 17 as much more and it won't lock in easily or leaves loads of marks on the puck, any less and its watery)

I'm guessing the ratio is more about personal preference in texture etc? Or if I can't make anything work in 1:2.


Did someone say coffee?

:Gaggia Classic--> Nuova Simonelli Oscar--> fracino Cherub:Mazzer SuperJolly:Hario V60+aeropress+french press:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, it's nice to try lungi and ristretti from time to time so don't be a slave to 1:2. I've had some nice 18:27 and routinely pull 18.5>[email protected] for my morning flat white. 1:2 is a guide to where 'nom' might be. Considering the 'classic' Italian recipe is double that (7>[email protected]") you can do what you like, so long as you like it. (I base that on the fact that the traditional Italian shot is 7g into one fluid ounce - but since when did the Italians use imperial?) Trying different length shots and noting how the taste changes is a great way to learn how to customise your shots.

 

It's always best to change only one thing at a time. If you have found a dose that works well with your basket, stick to it. Adjust the grinder to get your time about right and work to a ratio. Try slightly shorter and longer ratios at the same grind to find a taste that you like. Of course a smaller output at the same grind will take slightly less time and vice versa but the time isn't important if it tastes good and won't change that much. If it's still in the ballpark there won't be much 'wrong' and taste is king. You can always tweak grind later, but one variable at a time.

Edited by hotmetal

Rocket R58Ceado E37SAeropressAerGrind • Puck Puck cold brew widget • VST 18g basket • Torr Goldfinger 58.5 convex black Ti/walnut tamper • Torr Goldfinger 58.5 flat sharp edge tamper • Big bag o' beans • Triumph Street Triple 675R

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sometimes I commit the cardinal sin of not even weighing the output .... just pour, watch it and cut it when I think all the nice stuff is out and its going to long.

 

and to be fair ... its doesn't taste any different to randomly deciding to go 1:3 or 1:2.5 .... I just dont know what the ratio is


Izzo Vivi, La Pavoni Europiccola, Microcasa a Leva, Macap MC4, Lido E .... and a preference for the Dark Side

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Super useful post - thank you. Timings wise - should I be timing from when the pump is switched on, or from when the coffee hits the glass? I've seen both done - and as we're going from ratios it doesn't really matter as long as it's consistent... But our probable sweet spot between 25-35secs - which is this? Pump or pour?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pump- kill the shot by weight not time . Adjust via taste ....

Yeah. I had such a disaster the other day it was 35 seconds before any liquid came out. There was no way even if I'd started timing when the liquid hit the cup it could ever have been remotely pleasant.


Did someone say coffee?

:Gaggia Classic--> Nuova Simonelli Oscar--> fracino Cherub:Mazzer SuperJolly:Hario V60+aeropress+french press:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pump- kill the shot by weight not time . Adjust via taste ....
Yes indeed - this is what I'm doing, and timing as a guide to help me find the same recipe again.

 

The only reason I ask is that on deeper reading - Matt Perger mentions timing from pump start (http://www.baristahustle.com/espresso-recipes-time/) - and I'd been doing it from when the juice hit the cup... The difference on the Classic (as @Missy says) can be mahusive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • About:

    Coffee Forums UK is the UK's premier coffee forum Started in June 2008 by Glenn Watson, we now have more than 22000 mainly UK based members, and welcome more than 3000 members and visitors from around the world each day! With strategic investment and digital expertise from the Jackson Lockhart team (Tait Pollack and Adam Bateman), we are taking Coffee Forums UK to the next level, and are delighted to share the journey with you.

    New Members:

    We are often referred to as the friendliest forum on the web and we look forward to welcoming you onboard.

    Terms of Use

    Advertising

    Coffee Forums Media Kit

    Buy Advertising Space

    Donate

    Get Your Supporter Badge (per year)

×
×
  • Create New...