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Aillio bullet R1 roaster pre- orders

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A couple of minutes, until they are under a certent temperature, where they have stopped the roast. Maybe a minute or something, when roasting 1kg.

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A couple of minutes, until they are under a certent temperature, where they have stopped the roast. Maybe a minute or something, when roasting 1kg.

 

Does the cooling tray have a mesh to stop the chaff coming out of it's own rear vent?


 My reviews at http://coffeestuff.byethost12.com/ (now ad free)  Various Machines and grinders, Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/ (old site)

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Can you actually roast a full 1KG ok with it? Was there allot of smoke? Thx

 

Yes.. And a bit more actually. Did a 1,2 kg roast which turned out fine. However cooling times on this amount are too slow right now partially because the amount of air holes in the cooling tray is too small. This will be better on the units being shipped to costumers. New cooling trays with twice as many holes arrived just the day after they left Thaiwan. He showed me pictures of the new one. Looking good. Difficult to say if the cooling times drop as much as I'd like though.

 

I was very (!) surprised to see the low amount of smoke 1 kg roast created in the kitchen. I did 6 x one kg last night, and it was not bad at all.. Well it all depends on where you are coming from, but I had less smoke last night than I usally have when I use my behmor. I open the behmor door while cooling, which makes a fair bit of smoke.

 

Yes. Of course The Bullet creates a lot of smoke.. One kg roasting does. But almost all the smoke comes out the hole on top of the back and fires directly upwards into the hood. Even my sub standard hood handled the job very nicely. I will be roasting in my kitchen with my normal hood, when I get my Bullet. At least when it's not comfortable roasting outside.

 

I did a one kg roast in my parents' open kitchen inviroment (with a standard/decent hood) and the five people (my family who are not used to coffee roasting) sitting in the same room chatting said "of course we can smell it, but it's not so bad that we are moving :)". Again.. Other people may have different opinions. Depends on what you're use to.

 

I can tell you though, that if you don't have a hood, you do not want to roast inside unless you have an alternative way of getting rid of the smoke.

Edited by Jens_Muff

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Thanks Jens, really helpful. I currently vent my roasters through a hole in the wall using their own fans to blow out the smoke. The Bullet will do the same, the only problem will be when I put the roasted beans into the tray & the smoke coming off those 1kg of beans. If this is too much I will have to somehow install a kitchen hood or put some kind of extraction fan in the hole in the wall so it can pull out the smoke from the bullet and then pull out the cooling beans smoke. Will have to see for my self how much smoke comes off. If you ever get a chance to video the smoke coming off the cooling beans would be great. Thx!

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Thanks Jens, really helpful. I currently vent my roasters through a hole in the wall using their own fans to blow out the smoke. The Bullet will do the same, the only problem will be when I put the roasted beans into the tray & the smoke coming off those 1kg of beans. If this is too much I will have to somehow install a kitchen hood or put some kind of extraction fan in the hole in the wall so it can pull out the smoke from the bullet and then pull out the cooling beans smoke. Will have to see for my self how much smoke comes off. If you ever get a chance to video the smoke coming off the cooling beans would be great. Thx!

 

I'm pretty sure you don't want all the smoke the beans produce post drop to stay in the room you roast in. In my setup the fan in the cooling tray sucked everything back under the hood which made it acceptable to me.

 

One time I forgot that I had detatched the cooling unit, and all hell broke loose for 30 sec since the fan didn't activate. :D

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another thought, does the bullet have a cooling cycle so you could skip the tray and just cool the bean until they are below roasting temp and then just tip then out?

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another thought, does the bullet have a cooling cycle so you could skip the tray and just cool the bean until they are below roasting temp and then just tip then out?

 

Well kind of.. BUT it is most definitely terrible for cooling beans. Way too slow. The drum is 2,8 kg steel and takes a fair bit of time to get below roasting temp. The beans would be roasted to death with this method. Even with the beans dropped I don't remember it dropping much more than 20 C a minute.

 

However, we talked about the possibility of making the cooling tray working with a normal AC-adapter so you can detach it completely from the roaster and take it elsewhere powered by a household socket. Not sure this will be standard or included in the pre order price IF it is implemented. The guys actually left the cooling tray at my place, because they didn't have room in their bag for it. They said, it's really easy to connect an old laptop-charger and use it without the bullet. So for the modding people it should be a piece of cake. I'm not very comfortable cutting and connecting wires myself though.

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I have added a few fotos from my days with the roaster incl. from the our small event. As you can see, it fits under even the lowest normal kitchen hoods (48-49 cm)

 

http://amaliemuff.pixieset.com/bulletr1/

 

I read the review, very interesting. one question is all the very very fast roast times....why the race to 1st crack and EOR, my own experience over 10 years of roasting has been that roast times as fast as the ones you were doing, definitely don't deliver the best results for most (any) beans. Either the roasts were very very very light (read not properly roasted), or, going at a hell of a pace through 1st crack and to the end of roast. I proved to one of my roast sharers that fast is not always good with an Ethiopian Harrar Longberry both roasted to exactly the same colour, 1 batch roasted in11m 30s and the other in about 14:50s...batch 1 all the bluberry notes pretty much killed, coffee didn't taste great and oils to the surface within 3 weeks. Batch 2 tasted great, loads of blueberry and no oils on the surface after 3 weeks.

 

Sure some of the commercial boys will roast that fast, but for many of them time is money....The current drum roaster I am testing will bring beans to 2nd crack in just under 10m, but just because it will doesn't mean I feel the need to roast like that.

 

I think if you get another chance you should try roasting a lot slower and then try the coffee properly a week later.

 

I am pretty sure at some point I will get one to test/review once retailers are able to order one. Then at least I can ensure the some of the pertinent issues are covered. My only problem is the need to borrow a laptop to test the computer interface part.


 My reviews at http://coffeestuff.byethost12.com/ (now ad free)  Various Machines and grinders, Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/ (old site)

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I think if you get another chance you should try roasting a lot slower and then try the coffee properly a week later.

 

I am pretty sure at some point I will get one to test/review once retailers are able to order one. Then at least I can ensure the some of the pertinent issues are covered. My only problem is the need to borrow a laptop to test the computer interface part.

 

I'm with Dave on this, as been using his suggested roasting techniques from my Bella Barista purchases. Does a much more even roast and for me doing lighter roasts you can catch the roast right after first crack without worrying about the bean not being evenly roasted. (Also I find peak taste com 4-6 days later)

 

Also I've got a Mac, so the sooner they develop that the version the better. Also can you ask them to allow for profiles to be swapped between systems, i.e. mac, pc, ios, Android as would like to use my ipad eventually. :)

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I read the review, very interesting. one question is all the very very fast roast times....why the race to 1st crack and EOR, my own experience over 10 years of roasting has been that roast times as fast as the ones you were doing, definitely don't deliver the best results for most (any) beans. Either the roasts were very very very light (read not properly roasted), or, going at a hell of a pace through 1st crack and to the end of roast. I proved to one of my roast sharers that fast is not always good with an Ethiopian Harrar Longberry both roasted to exactly the same colour, 1 batch roasted in11m 30s and the other in about 14:50s...batch 1 all the bluberry notes pretty much killed, coffee didn't taste great and oils to the surface within 3 weeks. Batch 2 tasted great, loads of blueberry and no oils on the surface after 3 weeks.

 

Sure some of the commercial boys will roast that fast, but for many of them time is money....The current drum roaster I am testing will bring beans to 2nd crack in just under 10m, but just because it will doesn't mean I feel the need to roast like that.

 

I think if you get another chance you should try roasting a lot slower and then try the coffee properly a week later.

 

I am pretty sure at some point I will get one to test/review once retailers are able to order one. Then at least I can ensure the some of the pertinent issues are covered. My only problem is the need to borrow a laptop to test the computer interface part.

 

 

I did some longer roasts also. Some up to 14 min. Most with 1c after 10 min.

 

I am not going to argue whether shorter or longer is better. I am not myself experienced enough to take a clear standpoint. Coming from a Behmor without much choise. But I attended a roasting course some months ago with Michael De Renouard a certified SCAE trainer and Loring ambassador and many years of roasting exp. in specialty coffee. He preferebly roast with what you would consider very short roasting times within 10 min. Of course every bean is different, but it is what he mainly does.

 

I just think it's great, that you can have the roaster do whatever you want it to do. Whether you prefer short and quick or long and dark - or anything in between. And I am looking forward to experimenting finding out what I think tastes best :)

 

Would be great if you got to test it.

Edited by Jens_Muff

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I did some longer roasts also. Some up to 14 min. Most with 1c after 10 min. ...I just think it's great, that you can have the roaster do whatever you want it to do. Whether you prefer short and quick or long and dark - or anything in between. And I am looking forward to experimenting finding out what I think tastes best :)Would be great if you got to test it.
The concern, of course, is that the roaster may be optimized to roast 1 kg of beans rapidly, and may be more challenging for smaller, slower roasts. Your roasts and others that have been shared seem to be mostly near the 1 kg. maximum.. Many of us would like to roast smaller batches such as 400 or 500 gm and some may want to do this slowly. Will this mean you have to work within the lower power settings (P4, P3, etc ) which would provide fewer power options and less control? The only way to know this is to do smaller batch roasts with longer times.

 

Also, I would like to know how the roasts taste and smell in the cup? How do they compare with the same coffee roasted with other devices? I haven't seen anyone comment on this, which after all is our goal.

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Edited by NetDoc
Incorrect submission

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The concern, of course, is that the roaster may be optimized to roast 1 kg of beans rapidly, and may be more challenging for smaller, slower roasts. Your roasts and others that have been shared seem to be mostly near the 1 kg. maximum.. Many of us would like to roast smaller batches such as 400 or 500 gm and some may want to do this slowly. Will this mean you have to work within the lower power settings (P4, P3, etc ) which would provide fewer power options and less control? The only way to know this is to do smaller batch roasts with longer times.

 

Also, I would like to know how the roasts taste and smell in the cup? How do they compare with the same coffee roasted with other devices? I haven't seen anyone comment on this, which after all is our goal.

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

 

You will when I get my hands on one....I personally don't think controllability for smaller batches will be a problem as long as the response of the induction heating system is linear (which it should be). The fast 1kg roasts I believe are their way of proving a point, that it had ample power, because at one point people on Coffeegeek were stating 1500W would roast a Kg. At the time I thought people were being stupid, because I had helped Toper with the early Cafemino design and found 1600W conventional heating elements had no trouble roasting a kg. It's about how the heat is generated, where the heating is and how insulated things are. So I think this concern dogged the designers so much so that they push out all these super fast roast times, admittedly probably lightish roasts, but still very fast.

 

Oddly enough sometimes all this computer cleverness can get in the way for home roasters, for some they want to go out, simply press a few buttons and "auto roast"...which is fine, they won't get the best coffee, but does this support that easy mode of use....my suspicion is it will do this very well.

 

 

I will be able to compare the same coffee roasted on 5 different roasters, and not just the coffee but the overall process. One thing should be remembered. This is a home roaster, not a commercial roaster, so my expectations of back to back roasting and durability will not be the same as with the 2 commercial 1kg roasters I have, both of which are made to roast 4kg+ per hour, hour after hour. I'm not saying the Bullet can't do this, perhaps it can, but it's not sold as a commercial roaster and won't be warranted as such. I will also be able to compare with a Quest M3 and a power controlled Gene CBR101 (this last one from memory only).

 

Bella Barista, who have asked me to look at it when they finally get one, will worry about the commercials e.g. is it worth them selling. The things I will be looking at when I test/review is:

 

 

  1. If Aillio goes under, who owns the code for the software (roaster is heavily software dependent) and rights to make the spares. The rights for all this should go into escrow for free access by any/all retailers to allow them to continue to have parts manufactured and code flashed to those items as required. Otherwise it could become a maintenance/support nightmare.
  2. Spares availability and cost (hence how much for you to buy), what warranty support will retailers get...?
  3. Is there a service manual for the roaster because this is not a commercial item, this is a retail item. Retailers will need to service/repair it as will consumers. With the roasters I have been involved in so far, there has been either a comprehensive service guide, or the roaster is so simple, local guides can be written
  4. Is it really OK to use this roaster indoors (in the house, specifically Kitchen). I will take a view on that and advise accordingly. Currently my view is, unless I see something very special about the roaster, or a Video test of what happens when the beans inside catch fire, I would recommend this roaster is only used in a suitable workshop and not in the Kitchen or any part of the main residence. Aillio did state that they would test what happens in a roaster fire, so hopefully this Video will be available soon.
  5. Aillio have stated a Tryer kit will be available 3 months after launch....I will examine the roaster to see if this is actually feasible, specifically the clearance from front plate to fins and supports at the front of the drum. Does it really need a tryer.
  6. Roast lots of coffee, taste it, see how the roaster works, how flexible it is and If I can borrow a laptop to test the software....as I don't think android is available. Check evenness of roast and chaff clearance from beans, effectiveness of cooling. Specifically test smaller loads, as many home users will not want to do 1kg, probably 500g is a sweet spot for them.
  7. Give it an internal exam, if that looks easy enough to do.
  8. I don't have a 3d printer, so how will I deal with the smoke, because no way will I roast in our kitchen and the cooker hood wouldn't handle it, can I make some sort of vent adaptor. I think it's very poor that the roaster doesn't have a standard size 125mm vent supplied to be honest.
  9. Look for areas that might need maintenance, or any engineering/other concerns..

 

BB can then decide if they want to stock it....that won't be my decision. I just make the report.


 My reviews at http://coffeestuff.byethost12.com/ (now ad free)  Various Machines and grinders, Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/ (old site)

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Quick answer:

 

I did 2 batches of 250 g. First one cracked After 7:50. Second one I lowered charge temp a bit and the power and increased air flow a bit and that cracked After 9:35. Could have dragged it even more. 400-500 grams are not hard to control. Have not got the data here. Don't remember if I actually did a 13-15 min roast with that batch size.

 

Also did a 150 batch that cracked at between 7-8 min mark.

 

 

taste of the coffee is great so far. :) Will follow up.

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Quick answer:

 

I did 2 batches of 250 g. First one cracked After 7:50. Second one I lowered charge temp a bit and the power and increased air flow a bit and that cracked After 9:35. Could have dragged it even more. 400-500 grams are not hard to control. Have not got the data here. Don't remember if I actually did a 13-15 min roast with that batch size.

 

Also did a 150 batch that cracked at between 7-8 min mark.

 

 

taste of the coffee is great so far. :) Will follow up.

great info. Thanks.

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Hi Jens

 

Wonder if you could mention to the boys about another update, i.e. how production is going, expected shipping etc? Thx allot if you can!

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I have to say the roaster looks really great, but I still don't see how you can dump a 1Kg of hot beans in a domestic kitchen and not have a smoke problem - I use to have a Hottop and even with its pathetic 200 grams the smoke WAS a problem, even with a good cooker hood. At the very least smoke detectors will be activated, but I suspect that long term there would be darkening of the paint, and any soft furnishings in the vicinity would take up the smell. I would also suspect that breathing that amount of smoke on a regular basis could lead to serious health problems.

 

 

If this is supposed to be a domestic roaster - cooling, chaff removal and smoke removal should have been part of the design brief. It seems a pity that these criterion seem to have been ignore because otherwise it looks superb.


Londinium 1, Pharos, Ceado e37s, Gene Cafe, Aerobie

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I have to say the roaster looks really great, but I still don't see how you can dump a 1Kg of hot beans in a domestic kitchen and not have a smoke problem - I use to have a Hottop and even with its pathetic 200 grams the smoke WAS a problem, even with a good cooker hood. At the very least smoke detectors will be activated, but I suspect that long term there would be darkening of the paint, and any soft furnishings in the vicinity would take up the smell. I would also suspect that breathing that amount of smoke on a regular basis could lead to serious health problems.

 

 

If this is supposed to be a domestic roaster - cooling, chaff removal and smoke removal should have been part of the design brief. It seems a pity that these criterion seem to have been ignore because otherwise it looks superb.

 

it does have a pretty effective chaff collector in the back.

 

If the smoke is a problem of course depends on how sensitive you are. I am use to a lot of smoke from a Behmor with an open door while cooling, and the Bullet gave less smoke in the kitchen. Still enough to be a problem for some - sure. But not for me. Will it set off a smoke alarm? It might.. But so will a darkly toasted piece of bread. As I said, the amount of smoke is very hard to tell people about since it it hard to measure. Video doesn't really give any smell away. You really have to see it for yourself to see how 'bad' it is. Also people messing with 2c will have a lot more smoke to deal with. I never really go into second crack.

 

I wouldn't think home roasting once every two or there weeks cause you any harm. Commercial roasting every day might.. but what do I know..

 

To the guy asking: Talked to Jonas from Aillio this morning. They are starting assembling tomorrow. They still think they will ship the first roasters this month. They hope to finish 10 roasters a day once they get things rolling. Shipping itself will of course take time also.

 

Hoping to get mine Q1. Don't think chances are too slim, but time will tell.

Edited by Jens_Muff

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I am curious about when retailers will get a Roaster. I would have thought their named retailers on the Aillio website would be getting one to test first to see if they want to stock it? I really can't see how they are making any friends in the retail community at the moment. So far I have heard nothing on when I will get one to test and I know BB want to get one ASAP and send it to me for testing.

 

The bullet was meant to start shipping on Jan 15th was it not?


 My reviews at http://coffeestuff.byethost12.com/ (now ad free)  Various Machines and grinders, Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/ (old site)

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I am curious about when retailers will get a Roaster. I would have thought their named retailers on the Aillio website would be getting one to test first to see if they want to stock it? I really can't see how they are making any friends in the retail community at the moment. So far I have heard nothing on when I will get one to test and I know BB want to get one ASAP and send it to me for testing.

 

The bullet was meant to start shipping on Jan 15th was it not?

 

I only recall late january being mentioned, but could be wrong. Mid is off the table now anyway.

 

I am not really sure I agree on the retailer argument. It all really depends on how good the produkt is, how the costumors react on getting it and the price.

 

If feedback is good and Aillio can offer a decent retail price, I don't think they will be in trouble. Quite the opposite, as there will already be a blooming community sharing roasts and experience making others want to get it. Retailers will want in on that. But it all comes down to quality and price of course. Quality also meaning all the points Dave mentioned earlier.

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it does have a pretty effective chaff collector in the back.

 

 

 

To the guy asking: Talked to Jonas from Aillio this morning. They are starting assembling tomorrow. They still think they will ship the first roasters this month. They hope to finish 10 roasters a day once they get things rolling. Shipping itself will of course take time also.

 

Hoping to get mine Q1. Don't think chances are too slim, but time will tell.

 

Thx Jens. The Aillio guys really should be doing this, (not you) it's a bit Lazy from their side. I asked for a short weekly update, but doesn't seem to be happening. It should be fun as want to see them being assembled shipped etc, but is always a bit frustrating. o well, appreciate your help!

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I am a cynic.....that said, I do not get caught out often......

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