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How Hipsters ruined your coffee

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Interesting but nothing new - other than confirming Rayner knows a lot about very little.


Londinium-R - EKS43 running SSP Silver Knight burrs

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Ahh I like Rayner. Always an interesting read/listen in my opinion!


Love for and hate waste? Get involved!

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Ahh I like Rayner. Always an interesting read/listen in my opinion!

 

Yeah with you on that, I like his restaurant reviews but he's a bit off the money on this one. James Hoffman has tweeted that his quotes were changed slightly in the article

 

James Hoffmann @jimseven

What got lost: I don’t think SQM should be “as different as possible”. I want London’s coffee as diverse as possible.


Londinium I, Mahlkönig Vario, Hario Skerton, Chemex 1-3 Cup.

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I think Jay Rayner was spot on. I went to the London Coffee Festival and was shocked by the bitterness of the espresso. I really can't understand this trend. Hopefully it is just a short lived blip.


Londinium 1, Pharos, Ceado e37s, Gene Cafe, Aerobie

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We can all taste the same thing differently....

The review complains of sour espresso while you Nick complain of bitter tasting . These are two entirely different things

You could both be tasting the same expresso and calling it different tastes , whilst I could taste it and think it's yummy,:)

There is room In the world for both styles and tastes and plenty of places to get either in London especially . In a lot of the provinces your more likely to get burnt over roasted and over extracted espresso than a lighter tasting , lighter roasted one and where is no choice other than a chain. This is a shame as people then don't even get to experience which one they may like ....

Edited by Mrboots2u

I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

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Creases me on Master chef when so called food critics, Rayner included, criticise a dish for being over/undercooked and over/under seasoned then the camera cuts to Michel Roux and Monica who judge it perfectly cooked and seasoned. Problem with critics is people take their comments as gospel as opposed to a pinch of salt.


Londinium-R - EKS43 running SSP Silver Knight burrs

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It's always entertaining to read the commentards on the Guardian. What kind of person has the time and inclination to read a coffee article then post 'I don't like coffee'?


Londinium L1 | Compak E8

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Ah, the great Jay Rayner, what a pompous self-serving self publicist. Nice of him to be paid to espouse his condescending sneering views in the national press! If hipster espresso isn't to his taste, maybe they could have paid him to extol the virtues of dark roast espresso in CostaNeroBucks? It's so great that an 'R2D2' B2C can make it and nobody drinks it as espresso, cos that impossible, instead having to drown it it a pint of scalding milk and adding 3 sugars! Hmmmm! I thought I was grumpy. ?..........what a twat! Still, he won't visiting the Graun's new wave café haunt. ?....is it even still there?


Alex Duetto Mk 4. Della Corte badged Mahlkonig K30 ES. Mahlkonig Home Vario. Aeropress. Hario Cold Brew.

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Ian , you are grumpy today ....you need a nice fruity umbongo espresso to perk you up.....;)


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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Personally I think his views, like a lot of similar journalists, are a caricature of his own. They are sweeping, exaggerated and to the point, but they're to be taken with a pinch of salt. Articles like this one spark debate and are just his views on the current state of things. Keep it up I say! That's not to say I agree with the comments, either...


Love for and hate waste? Get involved!

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Pinch Salt in coffee now there's a new trend .....

 

No, not new, has been done, probably still being done.


Crem One 2B DBPP (pre production version), ACS Vesuvius DBPP, Izzo Duetto DB, Minima DB, Lelit Bianca Prototype DBPP (paddle flow control), Lelit Mara X Prototype, BTC Machines: Roasters: Amazon Dalian 1kg Drum Roaster, other failed roasters: Grinders: Ceado E92, Niche US and UK, Eureka Atom Speciality 75, Eureka "Blow UP System", VDT Vibration thing: 145kg assorted greens: My reviews at https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordpress.com/

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I was just about to post this.

 

He makes a point about sour espresso. I'm not entirely sure what he's been drinking but in the last year or two I have had a number of espressos which are genuinely sour, presumably because the roast is so light. There is a bit of an obsession of not having the roast 'hurt' the bean in any way. In addition some coffee seems to be roasted purely for milk drinks, the result is over-acidic and sometimes astringent espresso. I'm happy to have some fruity flavours but not a Haribo sour mix.

This bit on sweetmarias elaborates on this http://www.sweetmarias.com/library/content/perfect-roast

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Ian , you are grumpy today ....you need a nice fruity umbongo espresso to perk you up.....;)

 

I've got some tasty, fruity natural cold-press steeping in the fridge ready to go when it gets really hot this afternoon ;) meanwhile the espresso machine is warming up ready for the mid morning espresso or flat white. He is the Jeremy Clarkson of food. Have preconceived notions that the flat four Alfa boxer engines in an Italian rust bucket body with a superb chassis are the quintessential Italian driving experience, then blast off publicly about at length about how truly awful the new Ferrari is :(

The most undrinkable, sour and rancid espressos I have ever drunk have been chain dark roast stuff, until I wised up! Right, back to Grumpville.....


Alex Duetto Mk 4. Della Corte badged Mahlkonig K30 ES. Mahlkonig Home Vario. Aeropress. Hario Cold Brew.

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Coffee doesn't have to be roasted the way I like it or the way you ( not aimed at one person on the thread just a general "you" ) like it . Same as you get asked how you like your steak cooked ...

Some folks like a bite of sour if balanced with other flavours . Some don't :)


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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Its just a drink.

 

I prefer tea ......and xbox is better than a playstation.


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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Now I like many have little time for critics, simply because at the end of the day who is anyone to tell me something should taste this way or that and if I don't taste it as they say, then I'm either wrong a heathen an oik or whatever. But...... sour is sour and bitter is bitter and we all have the ability to taste those (maybe to differing degrees) as that's how our tongues are made. We don't mistake sour for the taste of raspberry or passion fruit or bitter for the taste of caramel or hazelnut. Even if we taste bitter chocolate we still should taste chocolate surely?

 

So, as I say whilst we may all taste to differing degrees, which I believe to a certain extent depends on the amount of taste buds we have on our tongues making some of us more able to distinguish tastes than others, that if something is bitter it is bitter and so with sour, whether we are a maligned critic or not.

 

It was a shame the 13k plus machine purportedly to have being able to produce an excellent espresso couldn't (whether it be down to the barista or the failing mechanics) just to see what he would have tasted. More disappointingly it is a shame not one (in his eyes admittedly) drink at the meeting met with his so called critically honed taste buds approval even slightly.

 

Perhaps he should be invited (as a response to his article) with a group from this forum as a challenge to him, to prove that modern day espresso is not all Kak. Making the espresso on machines and grinders of varying price and complexity ending perhaps with something like the Vesuvius.

 

Just a thought; but even the harshest critics can still be educated.........surely?


Gaggia Classic w/silvia wand and PID, Brasilia RR55OD, Motta 58mm tamper, Motta Stainless Steel knock box, Motta Stainless Steel 350 & 500ml Milk Frothing Jugs, Brewista scales, Tiamo tamping station, Notneutral cups & mugs. Technovorm Mochamaster, Clever Dripper, Aeropress....Lots of determination.

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culture, convention, stereotypes .....nothing about coffee as a precious valuable ingredient


@garydyke1

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......and xbox is better than a playstation.

 

That's fighting talk :)


Espresso: Ceado E92 (modified for single dose); Vesuvius; VST baskets and refractometer.

Other: Aeropress, Sowden and Alessi Moka Pot; Mazzer Robur doser with Auber timer; Mazzer Mini E; Expobar Leva Dual Boiler

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Sour is not always sour and bitter isn't always bitter to different people anyway

People taste and experience the same " thing " in different ways .

One tasting strip 15 people - some voted bitter , some salty , some taste nothing ,some sweet ....

Edited by Mrboots2u

I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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xbox is better than a playstation.

 

Only Xbox owners think that.....PS4 is running away with it at the moment


¿ ǝsǝɥʇ pɐǝɹ ǝuoʎuɐ sǝop

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Only Xbox owners think that.....PS4 is running away with it at the moment

I'll get one later this year I think.

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In that case my search for tasting coffee and all its intricacies' may be as fruitful as searching for Eldorado; because I'm me and I will taste differently to other people. Whilst since starting only journey last November I still only taste bitter or sour; changing the grind, the temp the tamp pressure the bean the timing etc as advised by many on here, may all be a waste of time.

 

So, has his taste buds that as he claims could once distinguish chocolate or caramel in an espresso but now can only taste bitter or sour been changed, or is it as he says just badly made coffee? If it's the coffee roast and or the way it is made, then surely offering to show him the light is worth while.

 

As for me.....there's no hope; but I'll carry on grinding and tamping if only because like eating, I prefer to cook a roast dinner from scratch using fresh ingredients rather than just heating up a ready meal.


Gaggia Classic w/silvia wand and PID, Brasilia RR55OD, Motta 58mm tamper, Motta Stainless Steel knock box, Motta Stainless Steel 350 & 500ml Milk Frothing Jugs, Brewista scales, Tiamo tamping station, Notneutral cups & mugs. Technovorm Mochamaster, Clever Dripper, Aeropress....Lots of determination.

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