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Grinders, what do you get for your money?

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Or at least keep them covered in polythene.


Sage DB; Mazzer Major; VST 15g, 18g & 20g Baskets;TORR Trapez & Perger Tamper

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And certainly don't let him put any part of his anatomy in a running grinder !!


Common sense is not a gift, it's a punishment. Because you have to deal with everyone that doesn't have it !!!

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Hello everybody, Very informative, but burr size does not correlate 1 to 1 with grind quality.I doubt that a HG One would be less good when using a 68 burr set.Also the spin speed does not effect the grind heat at home use, a good example would be the Mahlkönig K30 which is even used in commercial setups.You can easy find grinders from the same manufactor (same model) giving you a different grind quality i.e a different gap size between your grind setting and zero point (which is the best way to compare the alignment, thread play)The main reasons for it is cheap China production of different parts and the wearing of the tools and how long they use that specific tool till they change it when machining the parts, it is a compromise between built quality and saving money.Another important point regarding single dosing is, you will not get close to the extraction yield with a conical grinder when single dosing vs filled hopper i.e. Compak K10, Robur, Nino and even a HG One will not compensate it by running at slower speeds.The consistency of the Versalab´s do also vary because of the slightly underpowered 110W motor which drops down in speed by up to 30% when grinding, in particular light roast, also here the biggest factor in grind quality is "alignment" for the outcome in the cup.My EK 43 got 2-3 g of retention which remains inside the burr chamber and for me the "uniform" grind size only works for light roasts and longer shots.Medium and dark roasts taste overextracted (IMHO) and ristrettos are far away from being possible with this grinder, maybe it´s just mine, but nothing was out of alignment, not radial nor axial.At the end, you are totally right with "you get what you pay for", because alignment is the highest cost factor and the bling comes next.Have a great weekendFrank

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How much coffee have you put through your EK, Frank?


Londinium-R - EKS43 running SSP Silver Knight burrs

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My EK 43 got 2-3 g of retention which remains inside the burr chamber and for me the "uniform" grind size only works for light roasts and longer shots.Medium and dark roasts taste overextracted (IMHO) and ristrettos are far away from being possible with this grinder, maybe it´s just mine, but nothing was out of alignment, not radial nor axial.

 

Hey Frank, did you try Turkish burrs on yours?

 

I am in agreement that the EK's 'amazing' zone is much longer, higher extraction shots.


@garydyke1

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I would have to agree on the points you have raised and i believe there is a great deal of validity in your post about alignment. However i think the original ops post was not to display any prowess of grinder knowledge and the ins and out of grinder technology . I thing it was a general summary of the differences of grinder technology and to point out the time old formulae of cost/quality and some of the reasons why spending more money on a grinder should make your journey easier and or improve the quality of the end result. Ultimately at the end of the day there are plenty of users on this forum with experience of varying types of grinders and anyone considering buying would only have to ask and I am sure the forum community will be quite happy to impart impartial real life experiences with said machinery.

 

Very interesting post about alignment and burr sizes perhaps a new thread ?


¿ ǝsǝɥʇ pɐǝɹ ǝuoʎuɐ sǝop

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Sorry, I just intervened because of the "quality criterium" regarding burr size.

 

For people looking at a new grinder, you are totally right. It is a great help.

 

I have an older EK43, tried the original burrs (coffee) and bought a spare set (also coffee for a mere 480€) :angel:

The new one has been seasoned in by nearly a kg raw rice and some kg coffee beans, so that should be ok.

Never tried the turkish burrs though.

Also I did not want to say, that your coffee does not taste good when using a conical grinder and single dosing, just that the result in the cup will be better when using a full bean hopper.

The Versalab is for me the only grinder which is totally independent of pressure from above / filled bean hopper and gives me a better cup than any other grinder by taste, TDS and visual extraction.

 

Cheers

 

Frank

Edited by Terranova

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Frank

 

Firstly welcome to the forum, always great to see more experts in grinder modification and grinder capabilities here on this forum and it might be an idea to do an introductory post so that people here know and understand the work that you have done on top end grinder modifications for example the great stuff you guys do to versalabs.

 

I am completely in agreement with most of the points that you raised, my post was a generalisation hence why i said in general the bigger the burr size the better the grind quality and the more consistent the grind quality, but is was in general terms which I still completely stand by.

 

There are always anomalies to any generalisation and the point of this thread was to encourage more discussions on these points. I think that the quality of the burrs on most of the mahlkonig grinders (ditting) set them apart from a lot of other manufacturers and improve the performance of some of the smaller burr sized grinders like the K30 for example. (Although retention is high on a k30)

 

In regard to the big conical grinders, I am with you on the fact that weight of bean (or adapted weighted modifications) are essential for them to perform to the best of their capabilities, the grind consistency is noticeably different on a robur or k10 fresh when you have 2 kg of beans in the hopper vs attempting to single dose. In regard to temperature, the temp of the grind even when single dosing is significantly higher on the faster spinning grinders than on the slower spinning grinder, although that temp increases even more when running a greater quantity of beans through the grinder in any given session.

 

The great thing is getting people to think more about their choices and not just following the crowd like sheep, there are so many great grinders out there that each have their own foibles most of which come be overcome by modifications, people just have to do their research and most importantly taste the results.


AKA Toffee chips

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Dave, I was thinking that the thread could also probably do with some info about Grinder seasoning and what this is meant to achieve and some rough suggestions of how much coffee/how long it should take on some common grinders, and whether or not it's worth actually buying crap stale beans to do it.


Common sense is not a gift, it's a punishment. Because you have to deal with everyone that doesn't have it !!!

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Very informative, was trying to make up mind on doserless or not. You nailed it for me.

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Great article, very informative, thanks.

Please dont post the same thing on every thread


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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Hi CC,

Been lurking for ages, love the write ups and info. What would be the smallest great grinder ( say a second hand quality one ) in the £200 £300 price range?

I obviously mean wife/worktop friendly. ( only seen pictures of most grinders so far ) ..... La pavoni europiccola ..... porlex mini ..... aeropress. In my dreams it would be great to switch easily between aeropress & espresso......Hmmmm!

BTW love the no hopper small camera lens hood mod.

Thanks Michael

Edited by BRYHER

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Second hand Mignon for £200-220ish will be the most kitchen friendly imo. Use that for espresso and get a hand grinder for Aeropress.

 

Sage Smart Grinder and Vario advertise thmeselves as being able to go between settings but very few grinders can in reality. I found it a bit awkward on the Mignon although @D_Evans says he used to do it.

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I used to switch too but for periods of time rather than several times a day.

 

The Mignon can grind for either mode but winding the worm drive adjustment between settings is a bit if a faff.


Espresso: Ceado E92 (modified for single dose); Vesuvius; VST baskets and refractometer.

Other: Aeropress, Sowden and Alessi Moka Pot; Mazzer Robur doser with Auber timer; Mazzer Mini E; Expobar Leva Dual Boiler

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Some very useful information and an interesting take on buying used rather than new.

 

i have been wondering whether to upgrade my grinder from a Mazzer Mini.

And now have some great pointers on where I should start my research.

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Great write up & every word has prooved true!


Expobar Leva DB PID, Eureka Olympus 75E, Mazzer Super Jolly, Rhino Hand Grinder, Torr Trapez, On Balance Scales, VonShef Stainless Steel Double Wall French Press, VST 18, 20, IMS Shower Screen, V60, D'Ancap Cups/Saucers :coffee:

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Excellent article, is there a table showing a concise list of grinders with ratings and comments next to them?

I doubt very much I'll need to upgrade mine any time soon but it's be nice to be able to compare it to other grinders (the RR55 is mentioned though but doubt if the RR45 is considered similar?). All I know of, as it's the first and only one I've ever used, is that it's quick albeit a bit noisy and fits under the kitchen cabinets if you remove the hopper (I use it without with my tamper on top). A bit overkill for an evening cuppa or two but it gets the job done with the minimum of fuss.


Input: 'Terranovered’ Versalab M3 + Mahlkonig EK43 Turkish burrs + Niche

Output: KVdW Speedster + V60 + AeroPress + Syphon + Bialetti Induction Moka Pot + Bialetti Mucka Express + jar of instant for visitors..

 

 

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What grinder as a newvie would you recommend .Would you go straight to middle of the road price

 

It will all depend on what money you have to spend really, get as good as you can


AKA Toffee chips

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Im fairly new to this forums but as it was about coffee grinders I thought Id post this. Its a Top 12 Review of coffee grinders. Personally, mine isn't on this list but it seems pretty good, particularly for those not wishing to spend a fortune!

 

Without trying to appear rude, but they are not good grinders, at least not from the perspective of most on here, read the original post it may enlighten you


AKA Toffee chips

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I like some of the comments...

Well I like this one :cool:

 

The KitchenAidArtisan – Tougher than Chuck Norris


WATER : BEANS : STUFF

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Chuck Norris grinds his beans between thumb and forefinger.


Rocket R58Ceado E37SAeropressAerGrind • Puck Puck cold brew widget • VST 18g basket • Torr Goldfinger 58.5 convex black Ti/walnut tamper • Torr Goldfinger 58.5 flat sharp edge tamper • Big bag o' beans • Triumph Street Triple 675R

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