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thehungryartist

About to embark on the Coffee Shop dream ( with a twist we hope)

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Greetings to all here.

 

My wife and I are planning on starting our own Coffee Shop combined with an Art Gallery and art skills centre. She has the skill ( artist) and I have the business savvy ( hopefully)

 

I have been involved in the operation of several other business but don't have a great deal of experience in catering, so I am on here to get some pointers on business planning, Food safety, equipment etc.

 

I've had a good lurk on here ( doesn't everyone?) and a recurring theme and perennial question seems to be "how do I estimate occupancy from footfall"? Mmmm seems its pretty much guesswork, hopefully after absorbing as much information as I can on here and elsewhere I might be closer to the answer in the coming weeks :)

 

Speak soon

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Hi and welcome

are you experienced in making coffee at all say even at home ?

footfall won't matter if the drinks are properly made and are tasty :)


I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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Sure I saw something about 3% of passers by but might have plucked that out of nowhere

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Hi & Welcome! Hope you pick up some good advice here


Londinium I, Mahlkönig Vario, Hario Skerton, Chemex 1-3 Cup.

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Your footfall in many ways will depend on your location and the nearest competition, the best way you can try to increase this is by offering a high quality product. In order to do this you need to explore the world of roasters and see what kind of bean you would like to offer as your "house espresso" as this will be the base for your flat whites, cappuccinos, Lattes etc, the better your choice the better the product, also what other style of coffee would you like to offer? filter, pour-over of one sort or another, syphon etc etc. As part of your business plan you MUST factor in training for yourselves and any staff so that you can produce drinks of a high quality, and at least perform basic troubleshooting if you have problems with your coffee and equipment. As regards equipment you are going to need at the very least 2 high quality commercial grinders 1 for espresso and 1 for de-caf, and maybe another 2 so you can offer a "guest" espresso and brewed coffee, the grinder for brewed coffee would normally be a totally different one from your espresso grinder unless you jumped onboard the EK43 train (plenty of info on the forum about this latest greatest must have grinder).

 

I would also guess that if you are planning on offering art skills workshops you will be wanting to offer more than just cakes and biscuits with your coffee, find a good local artisan bakery for your bread and cake needs, and make sure all the produce you use is of a good quality. All this is in order to distinguish yourself from the muck that all the chains like Costa etc offer. In a busy tourist destination like York I would imagine visitors would pay a premium over the chains for top quality local and seasonal offerings, it may also be worth looking into becoming a licensed premises. Yorks Bakery Cafe in Birmingham( http://www.yorksbakerycafe.co.uk/) would be worth a visit to see this kind of thing being done well, the only other place I have visited thatr offers a good quality coffee on site as well as a Gallery and art skills workshops is Cedar Farm near Ormskirk in Lancashire ( http://www.cedarfarm.net/)


Common sense is not a gift, it's a punishment. Because you have to deal with everyone that doesn't have it !!!

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The closest I have personally seen to what you are contemplating is this

 

http://www.biscuit-biscuit.com

 

my wife loves the place, and has spent a small fortune in there (as she's the artsy one). I don't rate it as the cafe area feels tacked on, and the coffees or food I've had there are just high st average. Still the place has been surviving for a while in a very expensive area.

 

best of luck with your new venture.

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3 espresso grinders to start? EK43 ?

I would be unsure if there is a demand to start for guest espresso in a cafe in a arts centre to start with but hey . I don't know I've never run or world in a cafe .

Keep it simple get some training , take some advice of some professionals or people who have worked cafe on here and see what your letting yourself in before buying 3 or 4 grinders , people with cafe experience can give you an idea of how to set out your cafe for the best workflow and machines that will suit your skills and needs and employees .

 

If you still want to go ahead, aim for a good blend or bean that will suit your milk base drinks as this is where the vast proportion of your drinks will be ordered . plus one blend will be easy to manage dialling in grinder wise each day

get this right and then see if your clientele want guest espresso , lots of variations on brewed etc ....

but really got to some professionals for training and play on equipment if you can ,

Edited by Mrboots2u

I write a blog, it's nothing to do with coffee ...

https://rjwinc.wordpress.com

Instagram - rjw_inc

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I think you would do well by keeping it simple.

 

Regarding the coffee itself - go and chat to these guys :-

 

The Attic, York

2 Kings Square, Harlequin, York, YO1 8BH

The Harlequin is a charming and relaxed coffee shop, says Max, but head upstairs and you will find a space dedicated to speciality coffee. “What a combo.”

 

Spring Espresso, York

45 Fossgate, York, YO1 9TF

 

“This is a brilliant all-round café,” says Max. “The staff are dedicated to carefully prepared coffee with a quality food offering too.


@garydyke1

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Hi everyone!

 

A great thank you to all of you for the words of wisdom and advice. It is good to see so many helpful Avatars already :)

 

I have spoken with a few people in the trade including Limini Coffee in Bradford and York Coffee Emporium. I have already been blown away by the level of detail that goes into making that perfect cup of espresso and cap.

 

I agree, I will be keeping things simple to start with and may try a guest espresso later down the line. I have tried my hand at using an espresso machine but reckon I have quite a lot to learn.

 

I will be trying to source a good artisan bakery too, although I am reluctant to go for too much cooked food as I don't want the place smelling of bacon fat for example. I don't think this will be ideal for the art side of things. At the same time I realise that the range must be large enough to get bums on seats and cater for the important lunchtime trade!

 

3% of passers by jeebsy? Sounds good to me, I reckon over 1000 pass this shop every day so I will be happy with 300 of them :drink: ( think York City Centre)

 

I also intend to go for an alcohol licence later down the line to go for the early evening Bistro.

 

I have loads of other questions but will find the correct forum to post them in.

 

Once again thanks to all !

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thanks garydyke.

 

I am familiar with both of these Coffee Shops, both excellent but one in particular would be a stones throw away from where I am thinking of opening so I'm not sure how helpful they will be haha. Unless they have no fear of the competition of course ( good attitude to have I guess)

 

 

I think you would do well by keeping it simple.

 

Regarding the coffee itself - go and chat to these guys :-

 

The Attic, York

2 Kings Square, Harlequin, York, YO1 8BH

The Harlequin is a charming and relaxed coffee shop, says Max, but head upstairs and you will find a space dedicated to speciality coffee. “What a combo.”

 

Spring Espresso, York

45 Fossgate, York, YO1 9TF

 

“This is a brilliant all-round café,” says Max. “The staff are dedicated to carefully prepared coffee with a quality food offering too.

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Location and ease of access are key. Most successful 3rd wave set ups offer food - invariably sourdough bread:) sandwiches and a range of pastries etc that aren't cloyingly sweet. You'll clearly need some barista training - Limini gets good reviews. Keeping it simple is very sensible - as you get more experienced you can develop your offerings (pour over) for example. Getting an alcohol licence is a good idea too if you're going for a bistro too. Best of luck with your venture. Let us know when you're open - forum member(s) will pop in for a chat and coffee.


Londinium-R - EKS43 running SSP Silver Knight burrs

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We intend to sell Coffee ( obviously!) Tea, Smoothies, Shakes, Panini's Toasties, Sandwiches, Cakes and treats. ( All top notch quality) However we are hoping to stay clear of bacon butties full breakfast's etc as although we appreciate they can be great earners we are not sure the smell will fit in with the model of Coffee shop with Art Gallery/Exhibitions/Classes etc.

 

We have seen a few other Coffee Shops that seem to get plenty of business with this model.

 

The trouble is the only good premises and locations we can find are with A1 retail use and cant seem to figure out if we could sit people inside without A3 class use? Some of the information out there seems to indicate it would be fine providing you don't need any extraction equipment?

 

I am also considering taking the premises on A1 and using the permitted development change of use bylaw ( May 2013) which allows temporary change of use for 2 years and applying for a change to A3 further down the line. If the change is rejected and I was not permitted to continue trading with A1 I would then exercise the 3 year break clause to end the tenancy! ( This is a worst case scenario of course)

 

Any thoughts from budding planning consultants or legal eagles out there would be gratefully received! :o

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3% of passers by jeebsy? Sounds good to me, I reckon over 1000 pass this shop every day so I will be happy with 300 of them :drink: ( think York City Centre)!

 

I hope you're not doing the book keeping, as 3% of 1000 is 30, not 300. Haha


Espresso: Quick Mill Verona

Grinder: Mythos and loving it

Tampers: Reg Barber flat 58.35

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oops glad you spotted that! Actually the footfall based on my early observation is nearer 2000 per day (250 per hour 9-5) and probably much more in summer so maybe 60-70 customers sounds about right.

 

I actually need to get nearer 120 customers through the door per day to make the rent + rates work! But I presume the 60-70 would increase with repeat business and advertising pull ins etc.

 

Anyway it is clear I need to do more research and maybe some maths lessons too !;)

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Hi everyone!

 

A great thank you to all of you for the words of wisdom and advice. It is good to see so many helpful Avatars already :)

 

I have spoken with a few people in the trade including Limini Coffee in Bradford and York Coffee Emporium. I have already been blown away by the level of detail that goes into making that perfect cup of espresso and cap.

 

I agree, I will be keeping things simple to start with and may try a guest espresso later down the line. I have tried my hand at using an espresso machine but reckon I have quite a lot to learn.

 

I will be trying to source a good artisan bakery too, although I am reluctant to go for too much cooked food as I don't want the place smelling of bacon fat for example. I don't think this will be ideal for the art side of things. At the same time I realise that the range must be large enough to get bums on seats and cater for the important lunchtime trade!

 

3% of passers by jeebsy? Sounds good to me, I reckon over 1000 pass this shop every day so I will be happy with 300 of them :drink: ( think York City Centre)

 

I also intend to go for an alcohol licence later down the line to go for the early evening Bistro.

 

I have loads of other questions but will find the correct forum to post them in.

 

Once again thanks to all !

 

 

For the record 3% of 1000 is only 30 NOT 300!

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For the record 3% of 1000 is only 30 NOT 300!

 

It's already been pointed out mate


Espresso: Quick Mill Verona

Grinder: Mythos and loving it

Tampers: Reg Barber flat 58.35

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Jamie Oliver says that you taste with your eyes and coffee from a shop isn't different. Too many outlets are similar and do reasonable but predictable coffee. You need to explore a niche. An artisan espresso blend ...yes...but also filter coffees...something good in your cafe that you can also do at home with a bit of skill (and some purchases from you...eg an aeropress and/or a hand grinder). Ambience will create the taste even before it goes into your mouth. Artisan coffee...good art...the concept of self improvement linked with good environmental and community sense...you will have a head start. Buy the best equipment that you can afford with cheaper back ups from ebay (eg Mazzer SJ)....but don't overstretch yourself. Good luck...you have an interesting concept.

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I don't want the place smelling of bacon fat for example.

 

Bacon fat smells amazing

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Bacon fat, Irn Bru and deep fried heroin....breakfast of champions

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@thehungryartist - how about an update?

My partner's daughter was talking about your place today and I looked it up (noticed it was on Church Street, near the Golden Lion). A very busy street right in the centre of York.


Input: 'Terranovered’ Versalab M3  + Niche

Output: Slayer One Group + La Pavoni + V60 + AeroPress + Syphon + Bialetti Induction Moka Pot + Bialetti Mucka Express + jar of instant for visitors..

 

 

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