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Thread: Sage DTP - Shot Timing Clarity

  1. #11
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    I think a certain IMS competition basket is popular for DTP and milk based drinkers. Suspect it holds a lot of coffee. Bit of a problem though. The rim has too large a diameter to fit the machines so has to be reduced. It seems some do this carefully with pliers. I have a lathe so have filed a different basket down on that to fit. @joey24dirt can probably provide details on how much it holds, which IMS basket it is etc. There may be a modifications service around as well.

    John
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    In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Profitec T64. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A, Ceado 37J. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D
    Too many filter baskets - maybe. For sale when I get round to it. Robur Elect, Ceado 37J, Ascaso i_1,Piccino

  2. #12
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    I've now tried pulling the shot aiming for slightly over a 1:2 brew ratio, coming in at around 35 secs total time. The taste when in a milk based drink is better with no sourness.

    Given that my previous shots were pretty much bang on 1:2 at around 30 secs with a sourness I could detect with milk, does this indicate it being "under extracted"?

    Is the fact the shot is running for longer with more water balancing out the taste as it's hard to get my head around there now being more overall coffee vs milk in the drink, yet the taste seeming more balanced. Hope that makes sense!

  3. #13
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    Yes, sourness is most likely due to under-extraction.

    Pulling a slightly heavier shot can balance the shot because extraction is driven by the amount of water you push through the puck, more water more extraction (though at extremes this makes a weaker shot). If you have a higher extraction, you have more dissolved coffee in the cup...it's then just a question of how much water & milk you also have.

    To me, balance is much more preferable than strength, as long as the drink has enough intensity to be enjoyable.
    “Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

    https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

  4. #14
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    It's a problem Too many quotes / metions of under and over extraction and 1 to 2 in some seconds that might be 25 or 30. People need to forget it and adjust to taste.

    I basically drink origin beans and avoid blends. Not posh boasting etc it just what I decided to do. It didn't take long for me to find out that each type of bean needs some ratio to give the taste it's supposed to have and it's very often not 1 to 2, it's usually higher. However say some one finds they don't like that taste or the balance of it - change the ratio.

    No point mentioning this really as people will be scared about going away from 1 to 2. I mean it's mentioned so often it must be correct. Or must it. Sage of course must be wrong. In a sense they are after a fashion as beans and their needs vary.

    John
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    In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Profitec T64. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A, Ceado 37J. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D
    Too many filter baskets - maybe. For sale when I get round to it. Robur Elect, Ceado 37J, Ascaso i_1,Piccino

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajohn View Post
    It's a problem Too many quotes / metions of under and over extraction and 1 to 2 in some seconds that might be 25 or 30. People need to forget it and adjust to taste.
    John
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    Forget 1:2 by all means, but under-extraction influences the taste, so to balance the taste of under-extraction, you extract more (grind finer &/or longer brew ratio) .
    “Coffee evokes the most insane reactions in people”, Rene Redzepi.

    https://markwjburness.wordpress.com/

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWJB View Post
    Forget 1:2 by all means, but under-extraction influences the taste, so to balance the taste of under-extraction, you extract more (grind finer &/or longer brew ratio) .
    Wouldn't disagree at all. Personally I change quantity, stick to 30 sec and adjust ratio but I can change doses via basket size changes.. At some point if the time drifts too much I then adjust the grinder. Bean age or what ever. I'd agree that people need to start with some aim and that may as well be 1 to 2 but the comments in that area tend to prevent people from moving away from it. Sage come up with an entirely different number. The fact that they designed the machines and know how they work should at least tempt people to try them.

    Yet another number has been mention on here. 1 to 2.6. Also 40 sec shots. 6bar brewing on a Sage DB, People don't find out about these things without trying them. Sage DTP and BE, they may be brewing at 15 bar. That is certainly the case on the BE. Some one mentioned different grinder setting for different machines All Sage machines have pre infusion. Some don't. It's basically stupid to say that the ratio must be 1 to 2 and some specific time but pundits / web etc do.

    John
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    Last edited by ajohn; 3 Days Ago at 07:42.
    In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Profitec T64. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A, Ceado 37J. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D
    Too many filter baskets - maybe. For sale when I get round to it. Robur Elect, Ceado 37J, Ascaso i_1,Piccino

  7. #17
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    Just to add my pre-infusion time is always about 12 seconds on my DTP. I measure out 18g of beans and grind them, giving the SGP a little tap will normally result in getting 18g of ground coffee. I grind at 12 but find I end up moving down to 14 as the beans age over 2 weeks or so. Then I time from me starting the shot and get 36-40g out in around 30 seconds. I'm not sure how accurate the lines are on my little shot glass but it reads most often 44ml, sometimes a little more. I drink Americano so top up with hot water and add a splash of milk. Seems to be better than anything I've had from Costa/Starbucks so I'm quite happy. I'm no coffee tasting expert but it's good enough for me.

    I'm tempted to buy a Niche though, just to see if that makes any difference, just not sure I would be able to tell.

  8. #18
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    I did a lot of weighing in on an SGP as well. Very accurate but I only did it on beans I was trying. Tried the same with the bean I normally use which is oily and sticky and after about 20 shots the exit from the grinds chamber choked up so I sold it on warning the buyer about this aspect. In some ways with beans like that it may be better with the hopper on. Oddly I ran several kg hopper on using the grinder built into the BE without any problems at all, no clumps either. Problem then is adjusting the timer to keep a constant dose. With this bean once it had settled down it just needed a tiny touch on the timer knob maybe once a week due to trying to make very small fractions of a gram adjustment. Daily for a while as it settled down.

    I suspect you would see a taste change with Niche. Maybe a stronger drink as well. I can't compare with the grinder in the BE at the moment. With the bean I am using I'm getting the impression that Niche will need pretty thorough cleaning now and again. Not sure yet.

    I've changed machine and grinder so hard to really compare what i was making via the BE. The DB needed more coffee for instance via a mazzer mini and probably via a Sage grinder as well. Niche for some reason is better with 1/2g less grinds. A surprisingly small amount for a rather noticeable change. However the burrs aren't by any means run in yet. - The pain of new grinders and that didn't seem to have any effect at all on either of the sage grinders I have used.

    John
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    In Use Sage DB+IMS Shower Screen, Niche. Profitec T64. Others Sage BE, Mazer Mini A, Ceado 37J. Projects Little Gem, Gaggia M7D
    Too many filter baskets - maybe. For sale when I get round to it. Robur Elect, Ceado 37J, Ascaso i_1,Piccino

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