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Thread: Decent espresso

  1. #2131
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    Quote Originally Posted by decent_espresso View Post
    That's right, except that version 1.1 is the same heater as version 1.0
    Version 1.3 is slated to have the new heater, the group head controller, and UL approval. It's also likely that they will have android seven on the tablet, instead of android 5.1. Twice as much memory and about 30% faster CPU on the tablet as well.
    – John
    -i guess that a v1.1 owner can replace the tablet in case a future version of the DE1 software causes sluggishness and a more powerful tablet is required.
    -I also recall the the newer heaters can be retrofitted into the v1.1 machine , is that still accurate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jf12 View Post
    -i guess that a v1.1 owner can replace the tablet in case a future version of the DE1 software causes sluggishness and a more powerful tablet is required.
    -I also recall the the newer heaters can be retrofitted into the v1.1 machine , is that still accurate?
    Wherever possible, we're making our newer parts compatible with older models of our espresso machines.

    So, for example, that's why our tablet is not fully integrated into the machine. The technology in an android tablet becomes obsolete much faster than an espresso machine. Some people, I expect, will want to upgrade the android tablet every few years to whatever is the latest thing. Since the tablet sits on top of our espresso machine, that's easily done.

    As to the heaters, they will work, but it's likely that the mountings will be a little bit of DIY. This is because we did not anticipate today in version 1.0 machines what the mountings would be in our 1.3 version machine. This isn't a big deal, it just means that some cable ties will probably be used instead of a very tidy mounting solution.

    Same thing for the new, stronger legs in version 1.1, as well as the new flowmeters. Both work on version 1.0 and version 1.1 hardware.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dylan View Post
    Are there more price increases anticipated as you move on to 1.3 next year? I might end up getting one of your machines eventually, but there are many other things in my life which need paying for first!
    Unfortunately, I can't really comment as to what I will do with our prices in a year. They might go up, or they might go down. Sorry!

    -john

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    Thanks john for all the detailed answers , one last question : when is the decent scale going to be available?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jf12 View Post
    when is the decent scale going to be available?
    There was some progress on that recently, in that the scale company I am working with to manufacture our design has almost all the molds manufactured. I attach a photo of what I received from my technical contact there, this past thursday.

    However, they haven't yet started coding the firmware, nor have I gotten my hands on a working sample from them. So… I really can't give us time estimate at the moment, other than very roughly saying 3 to 9 months, depending on how things go.

    The reason this is taking a long time is that I went fairly far with another company to develop the decent scale, using their firmware but modifying it to my specifications. I had four working samples made, CAD files, basically everything. However, then they came back with a price of USD$88 to manufacture each scale at quantity=1000. Since we wanted to sell these at USD$99, that left me at a bit of an impasse.

    So, I've had to start from scratch with another manufacturer, having given them one of my working prototypes.

    On the positive side, they are willing to make them for USD$30 each, which is much more reasonable. Also, this new company doing the product development is also the manufacturer (and they only makes scales, nothing else).

    Previously I was working with a product development company, that outsources the manufacturing. More steps and more intermediaries means more likely to have a higher cost and more likely to have problems too.

    As Acaia has set a rather high bar for quality, rushing something to market would be unwise.

    – John

    screen 2018-10-22 at 5.22.36 PM.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by decent_espresso View Post
    There was some progress on that recently, in that the scale company I am working with to manufacture our design has almost all the molds manufactured. I attach a photo of what I received from my technical contact there, this past thursday.

    However, they haven't yet started coding the firmware, nor have I gotten my hands on a working sample from them. So… I really can't give us time estimate at the moment, other than very roughly saying 3 to 9 months, depending on how things go.

    The reason this is taking a long time is that I went fairly far with another company to develop the decent scale, using their firmware but modifying it to my specifications. I had four working samples made, CAD files, basically everything. However, then they came back with a price of USD$88 to manufacture each scale at quantity=1000. Since we wanted to sell these at USD$99, that left me at a bit of an impasse.

    So, I've had to start from scratch with another manufacturer, having given them one of my working prototypes.

    On the positive side, they are willing to make them for USD$30 each, which is much more reasonable. Also, this new company doing the product development is also the manufacturer (and they only makes scales, nothing else).

    Previously I was working with a product development company, that outsources the manufacturing. More steps and more intermediaries means more likely to have a higher cost and more likely to have problems too.

    As Acaia has set a rather high bar for quality, rushing something to market would be unwise.

    – John

    screen 2018-10-22 at 5.22.36 PM.jpg
    I'm hoping to pick up one of these when they do eventually land - if they are as well thought out as all your other products I'm sure they will be great - and if they do come in under £100 then a bit of an easier price to swallow than the Acaia.

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    Default Plumbing kit progress

    plumkit1.jpg

    We today received a dozen handbuilt plumbing kits, for us to fully test before 500 more of these are assembled for us.

    These are for connecting a decent espresso machine to a pressurized water source. A special-purpose valve is inside the box and which does several things:
    - lets water flow into the espresso machine when the water tank gets low, and stops automatically when the water level is acceptable again. There is a 30-second timeout mechanism to prevent overflowing in the unhappy case where the water level sensor failed. This timeout can also happen if the tap has been manually shut off and no water is entering. In either case, the user is asked to confirm and tap on the screen to restart another refill attempt.
    - The valve has a flow constrictor which lowers the pressure and flow, because "city" water can be much higher pressure than we want
    - has a safety mechanism in it which absolutely guarantees that water cannot circulate back into the tap. This is required as part of the EU compliance.

    As part of our design, we wanted all the electronics on one side of the box and all the water connectors on the other. To do this, we needed a specially designed U-bend tube. This wasn't something that we could simply buy and we had to have it molded. The top right photo shows a six cavity mold that we had made to create this tube. Since it was made for us, it even as our name on the tube. :-D

    The bottom left photo shows you the tubing that we will be including with this. There is a quick connect that automatically clicks onto the back, and fittings are included for both European and English/American taps.

    Just a bit of nomenclature to clarify something:
    - the box that connects to pressurized water is called the "plumbing kit"
    - the box that connects to a tank of water is called the "catering kit"
    - these two things together, along with a plumbed drip tray, is what we call the "refill kit" and will shortly be supplied to all these Decent espresso machine pro customers.

    The whole box is made of metal, with rubber feet identical to the decent espresso machine there is a bracket which allows it to be firmly attached to the back of the espresso machine, or hung on a wall.

    We've given the go-ahead to have the rest of these made now for us. In the past, we have hand build everything ourselves, but for these refill kits, we are experimenting with having someone else do the assembly for us. It's much more time-consuming on the startup side, but once everything is in place it's great to have someone else do this work for us so we can focus on espresso machines, which are much more difficult to build than this part

    -john

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    Default A bit off topic from espresso machines....

    milljugs2.jpg

    Decent Milk Jugs Around the World
    Big version: http://magnatune.com/p/milljugs2.jpg

    I thought I'd collect photos from Instagram of people using our milk jug.

    Once I started searching, I was really surprised (and flattered) by these photos, many of which are funny, clever or artistic.

    The story behind the milk jug is this:

    - I was slowly improving my coffee-making skills and found that the taste of milky drinks was extremely sensitive to dilution. I started weighing my milk, and my girlfriend liked about 10% more milk than I did.

    - I also found it easier to regularly get the same latte art, if the milk quantity in the jug was also regular. The end of the latte art pour is where all the action is, and it's over in just a few seconds. That last foam needs to be reliable.

    - and milk waste in cafes is terrible. Rao did an experiment weighing the total wasted milk in a day, at his Montreal cafe. I think I remember him saying it was around 20%.

    - and I was trying to get precision lines in my art. Jessica Rice helped me get a private forum together of latte art competitors, to advise on the design. They all wanted the pointed tip, which is how that came about.

    -john

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    I drove recently through Amarillo, TX and while I did not make any good pic to share, the 3rd wave coffee shop there used Decent jugs. At least to me it was a surprise to see Decent stuff in the "desert"... ;-)

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    Default knocking off a great design

    I’m working with Lisbon-based Joao Tomas recently to create short movies of our espresso machine and accessories. Here’s a short one of our knockbox. He’s the reason that everything we do has a very European, modern aesthetic. https://decentespresso.com/knockbox



    The knockbox design was a particularly difficult challenge, because a knockbox is basically a trash can with a bar across it. How to make that attractive?

    I ended up stealing a page out of the book "steal like an artist" https://austinkleon.com/steal/ and nicking the Moet Chandon champagne bucket designs, but modified to be wider, stronger (for banging on), and cut out more in front.

    knockmoet.jpg

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    Default Unbending legs



    A week ago, I reported that 200 espresso machine legs arrived here, for our version 1.1 machines, with an outward bend to them. https://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthrea...984#post631984

    To fix this, they made this jig for us, that allows careful re-bending so that they're straight. They're sending this jig to us, and they made this video for us, showing us how to use it.

    It's a bit of work, but it'll allow us to avoid delays in getting our v1.1 production started again.

    The next 550 legs they're making for us, shouldn't have this issue (I hope).

    -john

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