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Thread: Decent espresso

  1. #1791
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    Quote Originally Posted by embrya View Post
    It is small and light, but quite deep. Good impression so far, but some not so nice marks on the frame:



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    Have you asked them about the marks on your machine? Surely couldn't be caused in transit if in one of those cases for the machine?

  2. #1792
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lozzer87 View Post
    How easy is it to control the steam on one of these?
    Cannot tell as I am only making espresso!


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  3. #1793
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    Default Decent espresso

    Quote Originally Posted by Lozzer87 View Post
    Have you asked them about the marks on your machine? Surely couldn't be caused in transit if in one of those cases for the machine?
    Yes I forwarded it to Decent Espresso but got no reply yet.
    I agree that this was surely already present and is not a shipping damage - the machine is well protected in its suitcase!

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  4. #1794
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    John from DE excused this morning and I will get a new base (fixed with 4 screws to the body).
    The scratches may be from German customs inspection as they opened the package since there was an invoice of 209€...
    I have no glue why this invoice was issued as I paid of course more which I then had to show the customs officer via UPS.
    Best
    Stefan


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  5. #1795
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    At least it's on the base and easily replaced

  6. #1796
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    Quote Originally Posted by decent_espresso View Post
    The one we use is made NBR rubber, like all the Italian professional machines.
    No that is incorrect. Firstly the standard gaskets are most probably EPDM, secondly we have been supplying OEM gaskets and standard gaskets to at least 4 companies in Italy. I'm not so crass as to drop names, but one brand is the one it seems you like to mention almost everyday. Right now a few big companies are testing in special markets, the big sticky is the price since silicone is much more expensive to produce that epdm. Dalla Corte have used viton seals since they started.

    Word on the street from meeting with machine manufacturers is that the EPDM seals are living on borrowed time as food contact regulations are being tightened in favour of cleaner materials. I am sure you have done all your independent food compliance tests on your seals (and other components that contact the water) and you will be aware that the testing procedure for EPDM seals is very expensive and complicated when compared with silicone. The same applies to brass and copper group and boiler parts which are being phased out in favour of cleaner stainless steel.

    Quote Originally Posted by decent_espresso

    On one of my tours, I had a Cafelat silicone gasket in there, and I got a few comments like "what's wrong with your portafilter fit? It feels strangely mushy".
    Yes that is the point, no need to crank the portafilter in. Easier on the wrist and on the seals. Also why use an 8.5mm from the get-go? What happens when the bayonet/group wears down? It is an issue on brass group machines and it looks like you are using aluminium??? so will wear down much faster. Start with an 8.0 and use the 8.5 for older machines. You will be making your own 9.0 and 9.5 gaskets soon.

  7. #1797
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pratt View Post
    No that is incorrect. Firstly the standard gaskets are most probably EPDM, secondly we have been supplying OEM gaskets and standard gaskets to at least 4 companies in Italy. I'm not so crass as to drop names, but one brand is the one it seems you like to mention almost everyday. Right now a few big companies are testing in special markets, the big sticky is the price since silicone is much more expensive to produce that epdm. Dalla Corte have used viton seals since they started.
    Paul, you would know much more about what materials other companies are using, since you supply gaskets to them.

    Naively perhaps, I believed NBR to be commonly used, as it is listed as the material from Italian parts suppliers when I searched online.

    For instance:
    https://www.devecchigiuseppesrl.com/...one=nbr+gasket

    Lists NBR as the gasket material for Astoria, Cimbalia, Faema... (61 hits for "nbr gasket")

    However, I'm happy to be wrong and for you to correct me on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pratt View Post
    Word on the street from meeting with machine manufacturers is that the EPDM seals are living on borrowed time as food contact regulations are being tightened in favour of cleaner materials. I am sure you have done all your independent food compliance tests on your seals (and other components that contact the water) and you will be aware that the testing procedure for EPDM seals is very expensive and complicated when compared with silicone. The same applies to brass and copper group and boiler parts which are being phased out in favour of cleaner stainless steel.
    I get your point that EPDM is being phased out. Can you comment on any issues with NBR as a gasket material?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pratt View Post
    Yes that is the point, no need to crank the portafilter in. Easier on the wrist and on the seals. Also why use an 8.5mm from the get-go? What happens when the bayonet/group wears down? It is an issue on brass group machines and it looks like you are using aluminium??? so will wear down much faster. Start with an 8.0 and use the 8.5 for older machines. You will be making your own 9.0 and 9.5 gaskets soon.
    Good tip, thanks.

    As it happens, we weren't certain that we'd "nail" these group head dimensions perfectly with our launch, so we designed the group to have a fiberglass spacer in between the brass parts, so that we could later decide to change things based both on experience and wear. We have spacers in stock at various thicknesses so that this can be adjusted by a repairman. 5 bolts come out, a new spacer is inserted, and the whole thing is re-tightened.

    If wearing down turns out to be an an issue (as you suggest) what we were planning on doing is replacing the spacer with a slightly thicker one.

    IMG_8608.jpg

    However, I like your suggestion of starting with 8.0mm, so that wear can be easily accommodated with a move to a thicker gasket, and will look into making that change for our v1.1 machines.

    At any rate, I really like your gaskets, and readily concede that you know far, far more about this part than I.

    Unfortunately, we haven't ended up doing business together but I'll continue to recommend your gaskets publicly for use in our machines.

    -john
    Last edited by decent_espresso; 06-05-18 at 04:42.

  8. #1798
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pratt View Post
    Also why use an 8.5mm from the get-go? What happens when the bayonet/group wears down? It is an issue on brass group machines and it looks like you are using aluminium??? so will wear down much faster. Start with an 8.0 and use the 8.5 for older machines. You will be making your own 9.0 and 9.5 gaskets soon.
    My mechanical engineer Ben has corrected me. Our gaskets are in fact 8.0 and not 8.5mm, made with US FDA food-grade NBR, which we then had tested in HK. Drawing attached.

    gasket copy.jpg

  9. #1799
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    Quote Originally Posted by decent_espresso View Post
    Our gaskets are in fact 8.0 and not 8.5mm. Drawing attached.

    gasket copy.jpg
    Cafelat E61 gaskets are 57mm ID and 73mm OD, whereas yours are 58/74. Does that 1mm difference affect compatibility?
    http://www.cafelat.com/silicone-group-gaskets.html

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    Last edited by EdL; 07-05-18 at 03:16. Reason: Added DE gasket dimensions

  10. #1800
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdL View Post
    Cafelat E61 gaskets are 57mm ID and 73mm OD, whereas yours are 58/74. Does that 1mm difference affect compatibility?
    http://www.cafelat.com/silicone-group-gaskets.html
    I never saw any leakage problems when using the cafelat 8.0mm silicone gasket on the v2 machine, which I took on a pretty extensive USA tour, probably making a thousand shots. It might be that the 1mm difference makes the Cafelat gasket slightly tighter to push in, but I can confirm that it does work well.

    Our group head went through a lot of iterations (years ago) as we tried to build tolerance in for a millimeter here or there, so that lots of different portafilters would work with our machine. We've got a collection of weird portafilters in a box here, that were our test-pile, to make sure the design was as compatible as we could make it.

    -john

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