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Thread: Decent espresso

  1. #1651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilo View Post
    Nice unboxing video. I was amazed, the package had only one portafilter included. A naked. I would expect many people do want a double portafilter as well. Making two espressos with a naked portafilter is not very convenient. Does every standard 58 mm portafilter fits in the machine?
    We sell a double-spouted portafilter, with a wood handle that matches our other wood handles. People can choose to buy that from us. https://decentespresso.com/portafilter

    As to "every standard 58mm portafilter" working, there is sadly no such thing as a standard portafilter, I have found. A fitting problem often arises around the placement and shape of the "wings" on the sides.

    We test with La Marzocco's own double spouted portafilter, and that absolutely works. It's also a great double spouted portafilter, being huuuuge and thus can take deep baskets, and has a nice (patented) tamping-level thingy welded on the front. There's also a good chance many other 58mm portafilters will work, but I wouldn't want to make any claim as to which those are. I will guarantee that LM and our own-brand portafilters fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by red_hood View Post
    Hi,
    1) What is the eletrical power of the steam heaters in each machine at 230V? I currently own a thermoblock machine with about 1kW heating power for steam, which I find quite slow to steam. I once measured the thermal steam output of a GS3 which was about 4kW. I do understand though that the temperature of the steam is higher, and therefore might need thermal power to achieve the same results. What would be eletrical power of the water heater?
    The steam heater is currently 1350W at both 110V and 220V.

    In August, on our DE1CAFE model, the steam power will increase to 2200W, as we are awaiting delivery of a bespoke design heater from a new supplier.

    A 150ml (6 oz) drink should take about 35 seconds to steam from refrigerator temperature to 60ºC, on our current models. That should drop to 20 seconds on the DE1CAFE, if physics calculations end up matching reality. <cough cough>

    Note that I don't think direct comparisons between LM's 4kW and our 2.2kW steam power is possible, because they're using a boiler, whereas we heat steam on demand. Measurements of my GS/3 at home, show that it outputted about 2 ml/s at 218ºC, though the temperature did drop if I left steam on more than 60s (as the steam boiler emptied). Our calculations indicate that we should be able to match peak GS/3 steam output, with the upcoming steam heater. Whether we actually succeed at that is something that will be very easy for everyone to measure.

    Quote Originally Posted by red_hood View Post
    Hi,
    2) Which method do you use to measure the water level in the water reservoir of the machines?
    I have attached a photo below showing the water uptake (blue line) and the water level assembly (yellow line)

    IMG_5952.jpg

    The "uptake assembly" has two stainless steel tubes. One (larger) sucks water up into the flowmeter and pumps, whereas the 2nd tube (thinner) measures the pressure of the air column, with a tube going to a 2cm squared PC board, that has a (fairly expensive) digital air pressure sensor chip mounted on it (purple arrow). It's accurate enough at detecting changes in air column pressure changes that we've considered using it as a flowmeter but at the moment, the pump vibrations cause enough rippling on the water level surface, that this isn't viable. In the most recent firmware release, in fact, we have greatly increased the data-smoothing that occurs while espresso is being made, so that the water level meter doesn't bounce around the GUI due to surface water rippling.

    -john
    Last edited by decent_espresso; 10-04-18 at 03:39.

  2. #1652
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    Decent and Assembly Coffee, all 4 days at London Coffee Festival

    James Wise of Assembly Coffee will have our DE1PRO+ at their stand at the London Coffee Festival. James is the 2017 coffee masters winner http://www.coffeemasters.org/james-w...s-london-2017/ so we're really looking forward to hearing how he gets on with our machine.

    Come by the Old Truman Brewery (FYI on Brick Lane) and find the Assembly Coffee stand (and their roastery "Volcano Coffee Works")

    Here's the location:
    https://www.londoncoffeefestival.com/VenueFAQ

    You'll be able to pull your own shots on the Decent Espresso machine.

    decdent_assembly.jpg

    . . .

    In other news, there are still some places available at Mat North's two demonstrations at Prufrock in London, this Wednesday:

    Afternoon https://www.prufrockcoffee.com/booki...sso-afternoon/
    Evening https://www.prufrockcoffee.com/booki...resso-evening/

    Entry is gratis, but ticketed in advance. You will also be able to pull shots and play with the machine.
    Last edited by decent_espresso; 10-04-18 at 04:29.

  3. #1653
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    Default Declumping espresso with a milk jug



    Here is a technique we use to improve our espresso shots. Instead of dosing into a portafilter, we homogenize the grinds by dumping them into a milk jug, shaking, and then putting them into the portafilter.

    . . . .

    Declumping Shot Comparison

    Some of the feedback from the beta testers, discussed on home barista, was that they were seeing more channeling than they were used to.

    In my experience, channeling on our machines is usually caused by these 3 things (in order of importance):
    1) your puck prep
    2) making your shot at too high a pressure (the DE1+ goes up to 13 bar)
    3) the quality of your grinder

    The two shots below are identical, except that the one on the right had the milk-jug-declumping technique applied to it. You can see that the amount of spray on the sides of the cup is drastically reduced.

    Both shots were 15.5g in, 30g out, in 30s, peaking at 10.5 bar. Flow profiling at 4 ml/s preinfusion, 2ml/s hold.

    IMG_8449 copy.jpg
    Last edited by decent_espresso; 10-04-18 at 07:28.

  4. #1654
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    Quote Originally Posted by decent_espresso View Post
    In August, on our DE1CAFE model, the steam power will increase to 2200W, as we are awaiting delivery of a bespoke design heater from a new supplier.

    A 150ml (6 oz) drink should take about 35 seconds to steam from refrigerator temperature to 60ºC, on our current models. That should drop to 20 seconds on the DE1CAFE, if physics calculations end up matching reality. <cough cough>
    Hmmm, immediately tried on my Londinium 1.0 at 1,2 Bar boiler pressure; 2 sec steamwand purge; 150 grams 2% milk at 6 deg celsius to 60 deg celsius in....... 15 seconds !! Damn, 35 seconds doesn't make me happy...... around 20 seconds would be great.....

    John, is there any chance that the 2200 watt steam power will be available in the DE1+ (later versions)?

  5. #1655
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    Quote Originally Posted by decent_espresso View Post
    Here is a technique we use to improve our espresso shots. Instead of dosing into a portafilter, we homogenize the grinds by dumping them into a milk jug, shaking, and then putting them into the portafilter.
    Terrible for workflow.... If you need to to this, then grinding in the Blind Shaker or Blind Tumbler (+stirring with a mini whisk) works imo much better. (lynweber.com)

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    Quote Originally Posted by markant View Post
    Hmmm, immediately tried on my Londinium 1.0 at 1,2 Bar boiler pressure; 2 sec steamwand purge; 150 grams 2% milk at 6 deg celsius to 60 deg celsius in....... 15 seconds !! Damn, 35 seconds doesn't make me happy...... around 20 seconds would be great.....
    Yep: the Londinium is known for particularly powerful steam. Are you able to make good microfoam at that speed? Pros can manage that level of power, but it does take skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by markant View Post
    John, is there any chance that the 2200 watt steam power will be available in the DE1+ (later versions)?
    Never say never, but we are paying a small fortune that have this custom steam heater made for us, and that has to be paid for somehow, hence it planned to only be available in the upcoming DE1CAFE model, which will be 220V only. So, for now, if you want that level of steam power, it will only be available in our top end model. Note that despite what the photos show, the DE1CAFE does not have to be plumbed in, nor does it have to be countersunk. Quite a few pro-home users have expressed a desire to get this model for their home.

    Quote Originally Posted by markant View Post
    Terrible for workflow.... If you need to to this, then grinding in the Blind Shaker or Blind Tumbler (+stirring with a mini whisk) works imo much better. (lynweber.com)
    I like the declumping and homogenizing that Lyn Weber's tool causes, but I don't like that the grounds pile up on the basket edges with it, forming an "inverse volcano" grounds shape.

    I have an EG1 and the blind tumbler, and I do want to acknowledge my debt to Lyn Weber's (many) innovations, which is what led to my lower-tech approach.

    -john

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    Quote Originally Posted by decent_espresso View Post
    Yep: the Londinium is known for particularly powerful steam. Are you able to make good microfoam at that speed? Pros can manage that level of power, but it does take skill.
    Yes, but I really have to be very attentive.

    Lately I 've been a bit lazy,, not holding the pitcher in my hands, putting the steam wand above the milk (~0,5 - 1 cm). When the Decent Digital Thermometer beeps at 57 deg C I switch of the steam. If I am careful with the height and the angle of the steam wand with the milk, I have good results.

    I like the declumping and homogenizing that Lyn Weber's tool causes, but I don't like that the grounds pile up on the basket edges with it, forming an "inverse volcano" grounds shape.
    Yes. I Agree! So I use a cut-off plastic yoghurt cup as a portafilter funnel below the Blind Tumbler. (Talking about low-tech ). The Decent Funnel probably would be even better.
    Last edited by markant; 10-04-18 at 05:22.

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    Default Progress report from the Decent Factory



    Here's what we're up to at Decent HQ in terms of getting espresso machines made.

    Update: we found the cause of the HiPot failure, we've fixed the two machines that were failing it, and we're shipping those machines tomorrow after they get shaken overnight and then burned in for 2h.

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    Will be checking this out asap

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    Default Book and poster

    dearcoffeebuyer.jpg dearcoffeebuyerposter.jpg

    Leaving the topic of espresso machines for a moment...

    Scott Rao really likes this new book about sourcing green coffee. Though Scott is the author of one of the two main books on coffee roasting, he feels that there is a lack of information about obtaining good beans for roasting. Scott also really liked the poster showing coffee processing methods and funded its printing. Stocking this item is a bit off-topic for what we do at Decent, but there is significant cross-over between our audience and people who roast coffee (for fun or for a living), so I'm giving it a punt.

    A pallet of this new book (and 100 posters) arrived a few days ago, and perhaps some home (or commercial?) roasters on this forum might be interested.

    https://decentespresso.com/books

    -john

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