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Thread: Decent espresso

  1. #1441
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    Good Luck with the BETA testers and every success with your venture, trust all goes well.

    Regards Jon.

  2. #1442
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    Many moons ago I told Roastini I figured my DE1+, which is the group of the first 300, would land in March 2018.

    Getting a supply chain established is not as easy as it sounds.

    Will it happen then? I'm thinking that's in the ball park, + 2 months.

    Given the improvements to the product that have happened since then, I really don't care.

  3. #1443
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    Quote Originally Posted by decent_espresso View Post



    I'm unsure just how "deep" a question you meant to ask here.

    Because we're performing water mixing with two pumps (hot and cold) while simultaneously controlling pressure and overall (mixed) flow, the control system to do this is "non-trivial" and indeed is mostly what has taken about 2 years to figure out.

    -john
    Well. It was kind of open. To me it makes sense that mixing different waters at different temperatures will have an effect on the pressure. I guess the pump works at N vibrations per minute at a given temp to achieve certain pressure. I can see how it will take 2 years to figure out all that. Just trying to understand a little bit more what the variables are when telling the machine what pressure I want and what it does to achieve it. No schematics needed though 😂

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreugv View Post
    Well. It was kind of open. To me it makes sense that mixing different waters at different temperatures will have an effect on the pressure. I guess the pump works at N vibrations per minute at a given temp to achieve certain pressure. I can see how it will take 2 years to figure out all that. Just trying to understand a little bit more what the variables are when telling the machine what pressure I want and what it does to achieve it. No schematics needed though 
    Pressure is surprisingly easy, because the pressure sensor has a near instant response, so it's just a question of adjusting the pump strength. If we only had one pump, and used a boiler, then pressure profiling would not have been complicated (once we figured out how to control individual pump strokes).

    What's more complicated is how the mixing of hot and cold water changes as pressure changes, because they mix differently at different flow rates.

    Because espresso is made at close-to-boiling water temperature, and we can't go much above 100ºC in the hot water, most of the "work" is done by the hot water pump, which mixes 110ºC water down to the 88ºC->95ºC range of most espresso, with a small trickle of room temperature water.

    But really, us figuring this out is what the customer pays us to do. There's a chart on the DE1+ showing how successful we were at hitting the desired temperatures. Other than warming up the portafilter a bit (by leaving it locked in or pulling a water-only shot) there's nothing you need to do to have accurate water temperature.

    -john

  5. #1445
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    Quote Originally Posted by decent_espresso View Post
    But really, us figuring this out is what the customer pays us to do. There's a chart on the DE1+ showing how successful we were at hitting the desired temperatures. Other than warming up the portafilter a bit (by leaving it locked in or pulling a water-only shot) there's nothing you need to do to have accurate water temperature.

    -john
    And happy to do so. Thank you for the answer!

  6. #1446
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    Default It's all a Bit Draining

    hole.jpg

    I hadn't looked at how our final sales numbers broke down until last week, and I was surprised to find that 42% of our first 300 customers had opted for the PRO option, which allows you to "plumb" your Decent Espresso machine. Connecting "Water In" is something we solved two years ago, but we'd never finalized how dirty water would drain out.

    Our intention was to either drill a hole in our existing drip trays, or to make new ones. My preference was to drill holes, but given that these are made out of porcelain "stoneware" that was never a sure thing.

    Our hopes, a few weeks ago, were, shall we say, "shattered" <ahem> when we actually tried to drill holes in porcelain.

    A few days ago the right tool for the job, which is to say "diamond tipped drill bits", arrived. I fitted an 8mm bit onto our drill press, drilled whilst fully immersed (to keep the bit cool) and 1 minute later, a fairly clean hole emerged.

    Unfortunately, the exit hole is not as clean as the entry hole, even though I'm using a wood block as a support under the tray (top right photo).

    If you have experience drilling ceramic and have some "shop tips", please speak up!

    As far as a fitting goes, we wanted:
    - food safe, preferably brass for longevity
    - nearly flush with the bottom of the drip tray
    - nice looking
    - sharp right angle bend, so that the drainage tube could be led to the back of the espresso machine

    We tried boat draining parts, oil can drainage, and traditional plumbing. Nothing was quite right.

    Then, amazingly, Ben found that there is a whole category of "tea tray draining" hardware, for when you spill tea and want it elegantly swept away. A silicone tube fits over the exit barb, and voila. We tried a rubber gasket, but in the end preferred plumber's Teflon tape, to get a good seal around the fitting.

    As you say in the UK, I'm 'well chuffed" at how this turned out.

  7. #1447
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    I have zero expertise drilling ceramic, but is it possible to have a jig for the drip trays that would allow them to be flipped, you could then drill half way from each side to prevent the exit 'wound'.

    Other things that spring to mind are a dab of glue left to dry over the point where the drill will exit.

  8. #1448
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    Oh - and one concern from the photos:

    Does the drain point sit proud of the base of the drip tray? As this will mean that not all the water will drain, and much like in a non-drained drip tray if its left in there for a few days it will go a bit skanky. The little gaps around the exit point will also develop mould that will be a bit more difficult to clean out.

    I imagine it would be more difficult to achieve but an exit point that was flush with the base would be more desirable... could something be glued on to the bottom that didnt poke through?

  9. #1449
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    Can you link the drill bit you are using? The picture is too low res to tell if it's a solid or core bit.

    Additionally - there are a few guides on line for each, but I suspect you were using a solid bit and the chipping on the back end was due to applying just a bit too much pressure towards the end. One way I've avoided something like this (though I have no idea if it's a standard thing) in the past is to drill a super small pilot hole clean through which will have a little bit of chip and then "score" both sides with a core drill bit. Since you have a smaller pilot - you can setup a jig that aligns the drill press with the hole as coring bits that size usually don't have guide bits.

    So... you pre-drill a small pilot, swap the bit for a core bit of the correct size, drop it in a little to score off the enamel and "break" the edges cleanly (but not all the way through) then flip the tray over and then drill clean through. This *usually* works pretty well for both sides being clean. You can also apply some masking tape to the drill area to help as well. Plus your wood block on the back should help minimize ugliness on the exit.

  10. #1450
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    What is required to prevent break out on drilling through the likes of ceramic is full surface support at the break out side, the ceramic surface will not be uniform or totally flat so timber would have a very limited success, apply a strong adhesive tape to the break out side area and place a piece of stiff rubber to help that support, we called that material 'insertion', it was bordering the same stiffness of a rubber tyre composition and has a woven reinforcement sandwiched within, we used a thickness of about 6/8mm and purchased in a roll.

    I have used it successfully in the past to drill holes in plates for clock mechanisms, I even tried with success using a cataloy paste spread over the break out side and then laterally tap the residue off when finished, the latter is time consuming, the drills I used were the cheap diamond dusted ?? hollow drills from China.

    Jon.

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