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Thread: Decent espresso

  1. #1291
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    As someone who designs interfaces for a living, in my experience actions that are destructive (cannot undo / cause an immediate state change that is not reversible) you always want to have a confirmation of that destructive action before initiating the action. To put it another way: better to have a desired action take 2 taps than to have an irreversibly action take place accidentally.
    Currently, there is a kind of two step process on the "Insight" skin. "click on relevant tab" then "click on START button"

    However, it would be quite unlike traditional espresso machines to make you hit START twice. I'm also not sure that "make espresso" is an irreversible action, because you can tap again to STOP it, and you have a few seconds in which to do that before the water flows.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    Another thing to think about: if you allowed swapping tabs and had actions within the tabs trigger the confirmation dialog to cancel the previous tabs' action, that would allow someone to start brewing espresso and explore/configure elsewhere while they wait (or if they're steaming they could start tweaking an upcoming shot they want to draw next).
    Yes, that's a very reasonable alternative UI approach. The reason I took my approach of having most things in "settings" is that I find most people prefer "set and forget" devices. Most days they'll simply be tapping START on the function they want, and occasionally they'll go to Settings to change how they make their espressos.

    The one exception to this is the auto-off timer on the steam and hot water pages, which is adjustable right from there. The reason I did that is that it's nice to slightly tweak those without having to jump to a new screen.

    In developing this UI, I was wary about making it too "computer like", with extra user-labour needed to perform tasks that are "tap and go" on traditional espresso machines. While this is an "app" its main purpose to have you make coffee, and it shouldn't make that appreciably more work than non-tablet based machines are.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Doe View Post
    When I get some free time I want to concept how the interface could be improved by applying some standard interface design principles. From what I've seen so far it's pretty well done; the main thing I wonder currently is about touch target size for the UI elements on the tablet. I'm beyond excited about being in the initial 300 batch =).
    I'd love to have you contribute your own "Tablet Style". The kind of UI you're describing is very much doable as a loadable choice, and ideally, you'd share your work with others who might also prefer it.

    Right from the outset, I assumed that every decision I made would be unpopular with *somebody*, and so it was best to give people the flexibility to choose/change/create their own UIs.

    -john

  2. #1292
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    Quote Originally Posted by roastini View Post
    In the emulator, in the steam pane, when I stop steaming, the right panel displays the time the steaming took, and starts a count-up timer labeled "done" that seems to let me see how long it takes for me to pour the milk into my drink. There's no way to stop this timer, other than to switch away from the steam pane entirely. Maybe that's no big deal, but it seemed a bit odd to me.
    Because foamed milk separates quickly as it sits, I wanted to give you a very loud indicator of the quality of the foamed milk that's sitting there. Ideally, a café would have a rule that all foam needs to be poured within (say) 15 seconds.

    I do agree that it's odd to have the timer ticking away forever. I could have the timer stop after several minutes, but that'd be arbitrary. I could have it say "> 2 minutes" at some point, if the eye-distracting timer gets to be annoying.

    Just FYI, after I make my morning coffee, I always press the POWER button, which loads the screen saver, and cools the machine off. I usually do this just after steaming. That's why this timer doesn't bother me. You're not seeing this workflow (yet) as you don't have an espresso machine attached to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by roastini View Post
    Far more concerning, in my view, is that after I've stopped steaming, if I click in the right panel (the "make amazing latte art" panel), that restarts steaming. I appreciate that you want a big on/off button for steaming, but if I click in the left panel, that doesn't restart steaming. The only reason I clicked in the far right panel was that I was hoping it would stop the "done" timer. I was very surprised to have the steam start again. I would suggest limiting the steam on/off button to taps in the center panel.
    That's a good point, and as you can guess, this was done on purpose. I got quite a bit of grief two years ago from people who felt that they would have to precisely find a button on the tablet to turn steam on or off, thus proving their point that the tablet was ill suited as an espresso machine controller.

    When you're steaming, the entire screen becomes an OFF button, for this very reason.

    However, I concede that you have a point, and that ON should likely only happen when you tap in the general vicinity of the ON button. I will change the behavior on steam/water/purge so that you have to tap in the center third of the tablet to RESTART, and not have the right 1/3rd be an active tap zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by roastini View Post
    (I see that there is a "done" timer in the flush and water panes, too, which activate when you finish the flush or water pour. I ever so vaguely understand why someone might want to time how long it took them to pour their steamed milk, but really don't understand what the "done" timer is for in the flush or water panes.)
    For flush, it's because people will use that feature to preheat their mugs, and it takes a bit of time for hot water to fully heat your typical thick ceramic coffee mug. I have an animation planned (but not implemented) that shows the cup tilted after 30s, to indicate that you can now pour the hot water out: your mug is now warm.

    For hot water, it's because you:
    1) might have a teabag in there, and want to know how long it's been brewing (stewing!)
    2) because the water has an auto-shut off, you might come back to the hot water some time later, and want to know how long it's been sitting there.

    As a general policy, I thought consistency would be good across all functions, so espresso/steam/water/purge all have
    1) an auto-off timer
    2) a "time since ending" timer

    -john

  3. #1293
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    Quote Originally Posted by roastini View Post
    (1) Is there an option somewhere to select/deselect screensaver images? Not everyone will want "manga_girls" to potentially pop up on their machine screen when it is inactive.
    Ha, sorry about that! On my todo list is to write a "screen saver manager" as well as the option to download more. This hasn't made it into v1.0.

    For now, I will purge the not-to-everyone's-tastes screen saver images in the next release. They'll be downloadable in a future software version.

    Just FYI you can delete any screen saver .jpg from the /de1/saver/1280x800/ and it won't be in rotation. For that matter, you can place your own images in there as well, as long as they are 1280x800 jpegs.

    Quote Originally Posted by roastini View Post
    (2) I can't get the skin change option to work, or the "one-touch" mode to do anything.
    Are you running the app on OSX? If so, I suspect that you're running the app on a read-only drive, so your skin change can't be saved. Drag the app to Desktop and you should be ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwCrema View Post
    This is awesome. My initial impression is the app makes me want to get the machine that much sooner. Not that I was in a stalling mood going in anyway. On the unpack of the zip - since the app isn't signed by Decent Espresso, the unpack will show a warning, but it can be safely ignored. It ran on Windows 10 Pro with Defender without a hitch.
    Great, glad to hear it worked on Win10/Defender, as my previous release attempt did not.

    Quote Originally Posted by jwCrema View Post
    On steaming, I'd like for the app to help me understand how long I steam manually. Right now my analog Cremina it is all about feel. Instead of auto-off after X seconds, let me do a manual on/off and show a timer with elapsed seconds on the steam pane.
    Not sure I understand - are you on the DE1 or the DE1+ gui? The DE1+ shows you seconds steaming as you do it, and when you stop steaming, the total time you steamed remains on screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by jwCrema View Post
    After I figure out how long I need, I'll set the designated number of seconds and do the auto-off mode. I steam precisely the same quantity of milk that comes out of the same refrigerator whose temperature gauge says is always holding the same temperature, so I just need to figure out how long is long.
    Yep, that's the goal, and I do the same thing every morning, as I steam 340ml (for two drinks once). I even let the machine steam "hands off" after I get the whirlpool going in the first few seconds. While it's steaming I knock out the portafilter and clean it, and prep my wand-steaming rag with water.

    screen 2018-01-08 at 3.46.02 PM.jpg

  5. #1295
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    Quote Originally Posted by decent_espresso View Post
    Attachment 31001

    Here is a download link to the DE1+ software, that you can run on your Mac OSX computer.
    https://decentespresso.com/download/...sx/DE1PLUS.zip

    I'm crossing my fingers that this works for you.


    -john
    Thanks John - something to play until the DE1+ arrives in spring!

    I couldn´t download it from the link above - there just didn´t happen anything...
    But it worked directly from the website:
    https://decentespresso.com/downloads

    Stefan
    Last edited by embrya; 08-01-18 at 11:41.

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    Quote Originally Posted by embrya View Post
    I couldn´t download it from the link above - there just didn´t happen anything... But it worked directly from the website:https://decentespresso.com/downloads
    That earlier link was to a beta version, to get some quick feedback from this group. Now that the software is "out of beta" the downloads page you pointed to is the right place to go.

  7. #1297
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    Thanks John. I played a little and wondered that mostly no or very short preinfusion (2 sec) took place?!
    Which profile emulates a slayer shot?
    Stefan

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    Quote Originally Posted by embrya View Post
    Thanks John. I played a little and wondered that mostly no or very short preinfusion (2 sec) took place?!
    Which profile emulates a slayer shot?
    When you hit START on this, the resulting "espresso" will not actually follow the profile you just chose. This is because you're running a simulated DE1+, and I did not provide a full simulation. Ray's firmware, written in C and running on the DE1+ itself, is what executes the profile.

    Sorry about that, it's a limit to the simulation at this point. I didn't see my putting lots of time in recreating Ray's firmware in this desktop simulation.

  9. #1299
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    Quote Originally Posted by decent_espresso View Post
    When you hit START on this, the resulting "espresso" will not actually follow the profile you just chose. This is because you're running a simulated DE1+, and I did not provide a full simulation. Ray's firmware, written in C and running on the DE1+ itself, is what executes the profile.

    Sorry about that, it's a limit to the simulation at this point. I didn't see my putting lots of time in recreating Ray's firmware in this desktop simulation.
    Ok, I understand. And which setting is meant to emulate a slayer style shot?
    Last edited by embrya; 08-01-18 at 12:44.

  10. #1300
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    Having played with this a little, using the "Insight" skin - when I pour an espresso, the control is initially "START" (which is good and logical) and changes to "STOP" when I'm pouring (again, seems good).

    However, when I STOP the shot the control changes to "RESTART". I assumed that this was a resume function, rather than a start (all over again) function. However, in using it - it seems to be identical to the "START" function (pouring a new shot) - so it's confusing as to why it's labelled "RESTART".

    On the "FLUSH" and "STEAM" tabs, the start goes to stop and then restart - but if you move off those tabs onto another, then "START" is reinstated when you return. On the Espresso tab, whenever you go back to it, it's always "RESTART" and you never see "START" ever again... unless turning off/on.

    Bug or intentional?
    Lots of everything: machines, grinders, roaster, beans, tampers, baskets, blah, blah
    However - Too much is never enough!

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