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Thread: Decent espresso

  1. #1111
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    Machine still sounds strange - have to get used to it as I will get one next year...
    I would love to get the Decent scale along with it- but see that it is only available by May 2018. Any chance to get it earlier?
    How did you change the tablet mode to see the shot details?


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  2. #1112
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    Quote Originally Posted by embrya View Post
    Machine still sounds strange - have to get used to it as I will get one next year...
    I know, it does sound different from traditional machines, as there are two vibratory pumps. However, the volume level is less than you would think from the movie. Focussing the iphone on the espresso machine makes the microphone increase the gain on the sound in front of it, which is only the relatively quiet espresso machine.

    In person, so far the only comment I get about the sound is how quiet it is. Seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by embrya View Post
    I would love to get the Decent scale along with it- but see that it is only available by May 2018. Any chance to get it earlier?
    The "Skale 2" that we have for sale on our web site works with the DE1+, though it doesn't have a timer and is not very water proof. Sorry, that's the best we can do. :-(

    As to the Decent Scale, I can't give you any estimated date. Ben has done a first pass of mechanical engineering on it, reducing the height to the same as the Acaia pearl (barely more than AAA batteries), but we still need to design a PCB, and write firmware. None of this will happen until espresso machines are shipping routinely from here first.

    We have 5 hand-built Decent Scales here, and that's what you see in the video. Unfortunately, the manufacturing cost turned out to be crazy ($87 each, and that's if we make 1000 of them), as we worked through a Taiwanese based company that only uses one manufacturer, so we couldn't price-compare. That's another reason why we're going to do the scale completely ourselves (so we have our choice of contract manufacturers).

    Quote Originally Posted by embrya View Post
    How did you change the tablet mode to see the shot details?
    You can tap on the smaller chart for pressure or flow, and the chart expands to maximum height. The zoomed chart combines flow and pressure onto one chart for maximum height. You can zoom any time (before, during, after a shot).

    You can also tap on the smaller chart for temperature to get a full height version.

    Tap again on the "zoomed" chart to go back to the normal size.

  3. #1113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lefteye View Post
    Yes I get that this takes the art out but if I can get consistantly good results on a machine that may come in under £850 then that's appealing.
    The words "Decent" and "Quality" go together very nicely. I'm not sure that "Decent" and "Budget Price" will ever be seen in the same sentence, however.....

  4. #1114
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    Quote Originally Posted by CardinalBiggles View Post
    The words "Decent" and "Quality" go together very nicely. I'm not sure that "Decent" and "Budget Price" will ever be seen in the same sentence, however.....
    I don't know if it's just a coincidence, but yesterday we were told that our trade show stand at the Korea coffee show has "Decent" next to "Honest".

    10141509095501_.pic_hd.jpg.jpg

    We tried to watch the old movie "Honest Decent and True" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEOSJfk5yRo last night, but it's just too 1980s...

  5. #1115
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    Default The Saga of Insulating the Water Heaters

    IMG_7387.jpg

    A year ago, Jeff came up with the very clever idea of insulating our water heaters by pouring silicone around them. He built a mold out of legos to try the idea out. You can see that experimental heater 3rd from the-right, bottom row.

    We then spent a good nine months trying to move the idea into production. The problem was that silicone with no air bubbles didn’t insulate very well (bottom left, middle and right heaters, in the photo).

    As we added bubbles to the silicone mix we ran into two problems:

    1) the bubbles caused a slow, creeping expansion while drying. This tended to break the mold or for the silicone to ooze out unpredictably, sometimes even uncovering areas (2nd heaters from the left, on both rows)

    2) as the silicone dried, the bubbles migrated upwards, leaving the bottom very high density (low insulation) and the top overly bubbly (top left in the photo).

    The solution to both these problems is to do this properly, with a metal mold under compression, and having a machine rotate the product constantly as it dries. That means we have to outsource this to someone who actually knows what they’re doing, because we clearly don’t.

    So here’s what we decided…

    For the 300 machines we are building now, we have a solution that works well, but is very time-consuming (about 30 minutes each). We make a box from fiberglass boards, and stuff the inside by hand with mineral wool. That's the two heaters in the top right of the photo.

    For the next 1000 machines, we’ll be working with a new company to make our water heaters, using our custom design (a bit more steam power, even at 110V), and they will also make a two-part mineral-foam insulating box for our heater. That will save us a lot of time.

    Alas, sometimes research leads you to a dead end…

  6. #1116
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    Just a question regarding the steam output from DE1/DE1+, have you compared the the end weight frothed milked using the DE1 vs lets say typical HX machine or DB machines?

    Or in a blind taste test, have you found a difference between the milk taste as compared to typical espresso machine?

    I understand Slayer Steam model is uses a rather similar method as yours to generate steam; claims to generate 10-15 percent lesser water weight added to the final product.

  7. #1117
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    Quote Originally Posted by rytopa View Post
    Just a question regarding the steam output from DE1/DE1+, have you compared the the end weight frothed milked using the DE1 vs lets say typical HX machine or DB machines?
    I have not compared the final weight of steamed milk, but that's a good suggestion.

    What I have done is:
    1) determined the water flow rate of my gs/3's steam (about 2 ml/s)
    2) the DE1+'s flow meter tells us the flow rate is about 0.5 ml/S

    The GS/3 at 128ºC (it's highest setting) heats milk about 2x as fast (it's very capable steam).

    Per ºC increase, the GS/3 uses about twice as much water.

    It's not clear to me how noticeable this reduced water is on the palate, as I have not done side-by-side tests. My suspicion is that the quality of the milk is a more important factor, as a lot of low quality milk tastes watery before you even heat it.

    Quote Originally Posted by rytopa View Post
    Or in a blind taste test, have you found a difference between the milk taste as compared to typical espresso machine? I understand Slayer Steam model is uses a rather similar method as yours to generate steam; claims to generate 10-15 percent lesser water weight added to the final product.
    Yes, we've done blind taste tests, and the DE1's foamed milk tastes more "raw", "less cooked", "not at all caramelized". You will not get "dulce de leche" style flavored steamed milk from our espresso machines.

    My opinion is that both "raw" and "caramelized" milk flavors are equally good and valid, just different.

    On the DE1+, as we'll have a 220V outlet dedicated to steam, we expect to optionally give you steam characteristics for "dulce de leche" style foamed milk, if that's what you desire.

  8. #1118
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    Quote Originally Posted by decent_espresso View Post
    My suspicion is that the quality of the milk is a more important factor, as a lot of low quality milk tastes watery before you even heat it.
    My kids don't even drink non-organic milk anymore. "Normal" milk tastes more watery and less grass-y.
    Shelf-stable (e.g. Parmelat) is by default more caramel-y, because of the higher homogenization temperature.

    Quote Originally Posted by decent_espresso View Post
    On the DE1+, as we'll have a 220V outlet dedicated to steam
    Plus or Pro Plus?

  9. #1119
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickff View Post
    My kids don't even drink non-organic milk anymore.
    Bit off topic but last time my kids were in Britain they complained that the milk tasted sour. I chided them for talking nonsense but on tasting it i could see exactly what they meant.
    Espresso: Ceado E92 (modified for single dose); Vesuvius; VST baskets and refractometer.
    Other: Aeropress, Sowden and Alessi Moka Pot; Mazzer Robur doser with Auber timer; Mazzer Mini E; Expobar Leva Dual Boiler

  10. #1120
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickff View Post
    Plus or Pro Plus?
    Brain lapse on my part: the DE1CAFE will use two plugs. All the other models are single plug.

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