DavecUK

@dopefish why not see if a member local to you has kit you can go and have a look at...

I posted about the difference when the burrs were run in a while ago and because I could side by side run in vs brand new burrs, there was a clear and quite large difference (to me anyway). I would imagine there are more than a few people who have not noticed a gradual change and with the coffee consumption of many, I suspect a lot of grinders have not had more than 3 or 4kg through yet! At the time I did think some of the taste comparisons and things in the KNT were a bit hasty as they were on grinders with brands new burrs.

Do you know what this means.....the neuralizer doesn't work...

Thank you, I look forward with eagerness to the results of your experiment and willingness to take one for the team. If you can, try and heat the beans using another method as well, e.g. plastic bag and hot water, just in case the action of microwaves is affecting the bean differently in some way.

I certainly wasn't, all I was recommending is that you treat it as such to get it resolved in a pleasant easy manner and not let it get adversarial. Next time you buy something it may change your decisions about retailer you use. The other thing is that this is a result of the online economy and the driving down of costs in the supply chain...consumers buying mainly on cost. This sort of race to the bottom is probably set to stop at some point and an online companies' customer service will become important. At the moment this isn't always the case. e.g people still buy from Crappy Italia, no matter what you say and often it's well I had no problems....which is great until you do get a problem...then you wish you had never purchased a machine from them.

Early this year the instantaneous electric water heater in my mums Annex failed. I purchased another one and fitted it after ascertaining the fault which was a single faulty high amperage microswitch. I phoned the company that makes them to explain what I had found and the fact that the heater is in two parts and the failed microswitch was on the second heater which was NOT connected to the neon "on" indicator. This meant that the heater looked like it was switching on and off correctly, but one heater was always energised....quite dangerous. Fortunately the single limit stat was tripping before a fire....imagine though if that had failed. Their response was that it wasn't covered under warranty, they couldn't send (or sell) me spares or replace it etc.. etc.. You see they had heard "blah blah blah unhappy want restitution", not what I was saying which was to feedback something to help them and future customers. I explained I didn't want anything, was simply trying to help and feed back something technically useful. This time they heard me, the attitude changed and they also send me the entire pressure assembly free of charge (even though the unit was no longer under warranty and they didn't supply spares). Thanked me and said at least I would have a spare unit....if the other one ever went faulty. It seems it can quickly get adversarial by accident when it usually doesn't need to....then both sides end up losing.

Wouldn't you know...the neuralizer works....what was that we were talking about?

Retail grinders in shops often have their adjusters removed, this means they are rarely adjusted, probably only when the service guy comes round and digs out the accumulated coffee a couple of times per year. You are adjusting your grinder at least 100 times per year as opposed to perhaps twice per year for a retail grinder and therefore putting 5000% more wear on your grinder (which is only a domestic model). This is an enormous increase in wear...but I still think you will be OK

I tried I really did

The best advice for now is to cancel, wait and learn.....then make a considered decision. Think about what you really want and need the machine to do. There is a review site link in my signature, in no way am I suggesting any of those machines and I have reviewed over 50 or 60 machines in the last 20 years. The review site is new, it's simply a wordpress blog where I can dump the reviews and it's easy to update, can be read on a smartphone and linked to videos I used to do them on .pdf files which was never satisfactory. Look at my vids on youtube and in the reviews, the internal tours of machines and learn. On my you tube there are many videos, all can teach you something. Enjoy....

I quoted your first post in the thread and reading this it's clear you are aspiring to get the best you can and are willing to spend £600, which when you know almost nothing (no offence meant) is a very large sum of money. The fact that for 2 of the machines a separate grinder was not priced for is also telling. As if you go for an integrated grinder you will be getting a lesser machine than your aspirations desired. The pro grinder pre ground comment you by now realise was incorrect and you absolutely can't do that., when you mention a design perspective you are quoting your preferred external look. It would be great if you could actually research and give consideration to the areas of capabilities, performance, construction, longevity and maintenance.. You did make a good move to reject a small Pavoni lever machine because they actually need a good grinder and more knowledge than you have to use successfully. I actually think they make a poor starter machine. From experience I am fairly sure you won't be satisfied long term with the purchase based on the clear aspirations and willingness to spend £600 on a machine in your first post, normally when people know nothing they think £149 on a Dedica or something is a significant purchase and Gaggias are purchased by the cogniscenti. This is not saying they are not good, just that they are clearly not what you had in your minds eye. You might be too young to remember, but 35+ years ago Rolex had two brands the "Air King" and the "Oyster Perpetual", the first was not a chronometer and was much cheaper, almost half the price (which even at half the price wasn't cheap). I knew many people who purchased an "Air King" when they really wanted an "Oyster Perpetual Chronometer". Eventually many of them did get the OP and took a huge hit on PXing the Air King (because they were hard to sell privately and dealers were doing you a favour to PX them and gave no discount on the new watch). Quite a few expressed the view that had they waited....the 600+ they paid for the Air King could have gone towards the Rolex and a £600 discount on a new Rolex was a fantastic deal. My advice...you're hot to trot and all excited at the moment...cancel the order, wait and learn a lot more. Knowledge will change what you think you want. You will end up with something you really like and enjoy using with little need to rapidly upgrade. The other route means: "You have a good soul, and I hate giving good people bad news. Oh, don't worry about it. As soon as you step outside that door, you'll start feeling better. You'll remember you don't believe in any of this fate crap. You're in control of your own life, remember? Here, take a cookie. I promise, by the time you're done eating it, you'll feel right as rain." (The Oracle to Neo - The Matrix, 1999)

Did you buy a brand new machine Who did you buy it from When did you buy it and payment method used Which bit did you unscrew, exactly where did you apply the goo, where do you think the bit was spitting from (use a photo with arrows not Indians) Photo of the plug (only because I'm curious) Limescale won't be the problem in Devon. There are 2 things that concern me as to whether you have the required skills to effect a repair and diagnostics in safety. 1. Why would you want to check a fuse in the plug when the machine is obviously on? 2. Do you have the machine on an RCD protected circuit and have you ensured the earth on it is actually good!

It's probably not the Gicar box even though your description of the problem is imprecise and can be read a few different ways. The gicar boxes of that type are also simple to repair for a few pounds if it is just a faulty relay. How about some basic info, what country are you in (otherwise people will recommend UK suppliers...is the pump actually stopping mid shot, things you have checked etc..because everything you have written doesn't point to a faulty relay..but more likely a bad connection. You can also open your gicar box and look inside (much later if basic diagnostics don't fix the problem).

Just saw this thread and tried to get in before you purchased.....I see I am too late, when you look to moving it on in the near future perhaps I will get another chance to give some helpful advice.

There is a problem with grinder burr market and actually getting genuine OEM burrs, sadly it has always been the case (although it may have grown) and is why many manufacturers are branding the burrs where years ago they didn't. I have a set of genuine brand new Mazzer Mini E 64mm burrs, but because they are over 15 years old they have no laser branding, but came carded. I used them to illustrate the difference between genuine OEM and non OEM. Even worse, even paying the correct money for the burrs doesn't guarantee they will be genuine. I remember comparing a so called genuine Kony burr for which someone paid £120 ish for vs a known alternative non OEM Kony burr. The genuine had no laser etching (so perhaps it was NOS from 12 years ago)? Checked under an eyeglass and could clearly see it was not genuine, different cut and grade etc..I told him to get his money back, not sure if he did or not? Some People say there is no real difference between OEM and non OEM, but there is and many Mazzer grinders with non OEM burrs don't perform as expected, put the right burrs in and they are like a different grinder. I think it's great that Mazzer (like SSP) laser etch them all now. Buy an old ex retail Mazzer on ebay (or other reputable grinder) and you can almost guarantee it will have knock off burrs on it. Some suppliers have to be fully aware if burrs they sell are not genuine because of how cheap they are...if they are not alerted by that, I think they have some responsibility to at least do some checking to ensure OEM products are being sold. I've remained largely silent about this area for nearly 2 decades, simply because of the difficulties of discussing such a subject and the lack of people willing to do the work and come forward with photo comparisons of burrs they have bought....so it sits quietly in the darkness with no light shining on it. Then occasionally a post like this crops up. It gets all the usual attention about legals, right of return, item not as described etc..then is largely forgotten until the next person gets duped. A shame because a forum is exactly the place where people should share the "knowledge" to ensure others get what they pay for. Instead it seems that most posts are not about coffee, or what we want to either buy or sell. We have too many areas and divisions on the forum, but an area for the "gotchas" of coffee is perhaps needed containing the poor experiences and warnings we all would have liked to had. P.S. I wouldn't have stuck fraud! right in the title or even referred to it quite that way....that's just me personally. Having been accused of fraud (by a few twats over the years) it can be quite unpleasant when it's not true. It's always better to take the route of unconscious ignorance, because you can't prove otherwise.