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About fuziduck

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  1. The reason I’ve been leaving it for 10 mins is because the porta filter isn’t that hot after 3 mins. Perhaps it’s unnecessary to get this hot but other conversations had led me to that assumption. In any case. Which machine would you recommend to the OP?
  2. Are you saying the group head isn’t independently heated? I’ve not measured the group head but it is usually almost too hot to touch by 10 mins. I normally run a flush through into a cup to heat it and the cup up anyway.
  3. Hi. I’ve had both machines. Albeit the Barista Touch very briefly as I couldn’t get on with it. My personal opinion is that the Oracle is a much better machine. If they are now the same sort of cost I would strongly suggest going for the Oracle as it is a dual boiler. Despite not having a touch display it is actually much simpler to use with less variables to effect your coffee. In my opinion the touch display is slow and clunky and gives no more useful information that the oracle non touch. The oracle you can steam milk and brew coffee simultaneously The touch has to switch between modes which takes a few seconds. The oracle removes the variable of tamping. This can make a difference to the quality of drink and makes it easier to tune in. Whilst the grinders may be the same, the oracle has a knob and the touch has a thumb wheel which isn’t as easy to use. The oracle is however much bigger and does take up a lot of counter space. I’d suggest viewing both in store side by side first. The oracle also has a heated group head which helps to get the porta filter hot. The touch you need to run water through the machine to do this. The oracle steam wand is different to the touch. Some people including myself had a regular problem with the touch where it would stop steaming and say it is blocked which meant you had to stop and clean it. I’ve not had this problem once with the oracle. There are a few negatives to the oracle though. It does take 3 mins to get the boilers up to temperature. The group head will not be hot in this time either so you will also need to run water through or leave it for 10-15 mins. Unfortunately it also has a self turn off timer that can’t be set to more than 20 mins. (Something to do with the EU imposing auto off on machines that have the ability to auto turn on and 20 mins is the maximum. The descale process takes a little longer because you have to empty the boiler etc.
  4. So I thought I should post a bit of an update. I returned the Barista Touch to Sage. Whilst the BT may not have been 'broken' it didn't perform how I expected it to. The temperature of the water actually got up to around 85C when using a pressurised basket to reduce flow, but the portafilter would stay cold unless you ran some water through it with the pressurised basket. So I have now replaced it with the oracle. This is an infinitely better machine. The heated grouphead is fantastic. 10 mins after turning it on the portafilter is too hot to touch and ready to brew. A dual boiler machine is definitely the way forward. With the auto milk frothing you can actually prepare both parts of the drink at the same time. So that's a useful function. And finally the grinding mechanism is easier to make finer adjustments with. It may be the same grinder as the BT, but it's an easier process to fine tune the coffee. Thanks for all the help on this thread and now I can start discovering the world of coffee!
  5. I understand your point ajohn. As the flow of water isn't being slowed down by the coffee it doesn't have enough time to heat up. How could I test that it is 93C? So I checked it again whilst running a dual wall double filter. After a few runs the retained temperature in the portafilter hit 80C! Getting close but its still not there! In any case I think this may be a design flaw as the hot water output is also only 66C. Sage have offered me to return the machine, which I will probably do and then upgrade to the Oracle. Another member has done this and now seems more than happy.
  6. A thermapen. I did also do a rudimentary check against some boiled water and it showed ~98C. I've convinced myself the temperature coming out of the brew group or hot water spout is low and I am tempted to take my temperature probe into John Lewis and ask the Sage rep to check the machine that is on display. Sage have offered to send an engineer out or provide me with a full refund, so I'm unsure what to do and I'm wondering whether I should have bought the Sage Oracle to start with. (I was going to buy the Oracle but was put off by the larger size.)
  7. Hi, You may have seen my Newbie thread about the Barista Touch. I think we have discovered that low brew temperature is causing much of the issues on this machine. Temperature from the Shower Screen or Hot water spout seem to be around 66C as they flow into a pre-warmed shot glass. (Even allowing for losses this seems much too low) I would like some comparable evidence from other Sage models to 100% confirm this is too low and hasn't just lost heat by the time it gets to the shower screen. Any help welcome. Luke
  8. Temperature now measured with an accurate digital thermometer. I'm getting 66C from the shower screen after flushing it a couple of times. I'm really hoping we get some responses from other model owners as I'd really like to see if this is a specific model issue, then I can go back to Sage and see what they have to say!
  9. I've just ordered a digital thermometer and see what my results are. Are we saying that the highest brew of 58C out of the shower screen is OK or is there a machine problem? It would be good to know if anyone with a Barista Express or Oracle gets similar readings?
  10. Thanks Geezercdg. Without any accurate thermometer in the house yet I've had to improvise with a jam thermometer. I'm also not sure where to measure from. Method was to pre-heat a shot cup and then re-fill with hot water and measure that. I did this both from the hot water outlet and directly from the shower screen with no porta filter connected. From both I got 56C. I then fiddled with the settings and put it to maximum and it now comes out at 58C. Can anyone confirm if this temperature should be a lot closer to 90C as I am now convincing myself it is too cold having read Geezercdg's other thread. Can there really be a whole batch of these machines that don't get up to temperature?!
  11. OK So I reduced the grind by one notch to 9 now. 18g in and 54g out so this is certainly a lot closer to what is expected. It has a nice crema, however I feel like I'm still not getting all of the flavours from the coffee. I'll keep fiddling with the grind and see where it goes. it has a nice 'warm honey' flow and only gets spluttery towards the end, it also seems to be leaving a slightly wet puck, could this be because the dose in the porta filter is too low and its not expanding fully? I can see myself becoming quite addicted to getting the perfect shot!
  12. Hello All, So I thought I should report back following the helpful comments. Using Pact coffee I seem to be getting some better results now. (I think the grinder needed a little time to settle down from being new) I'm also now weighing my beans before grinding and running the grinder empty each time. Results seem to be ~0.1g in and out. 18g of coffee seems reasonable and after pulling the shot you can just about see the indent of the shower screen from where the grinds expand. It starts to pour around 6 seconds and I will get roughly 60g of coffee at about 35 seconds. This seems reasonable and I'm getting some nice flavours from the coffee. (Is this the sort of quantities I should aim for because Sarracenae is getting almost half the coffee for the same weight of beans? I think I'm going to have to start a Pact subscription as I don't want to go through this fuss from every change of beans! Thanks All.
  13. Thanks all for the replies. I will try and grind finer first and also reduce the dose slightly to 18g as a starting point. (I have checked with the razor however it is always below the limit which perhaps means I am tamping too hard.) Does anyone have a suggestion on how to check how hard they are tamping? I have been running through a couple of shots at each change of setting to allow for grinds already in the machine. I'll experiment a bit more with the comments above in mind and will come back with my results. Fingers crossed.
  14. Hey, I've come to explore the world of good home prepared coffee. I used to have a Delonghi Bean to Cup (Please don't judge me too much). However I've seen sense and got rid so I could purchase a Barista Touch. First impressions are good, however it looks like I've got a lot to learn before I'll get a really decent coffee from the machine. The milk however is in a different league to the Delonghi and given that most of my drinks are milk based means this will get a lot of use. So little effort to get fantastic milk! Anyway, look forward to learning about what is rapidly becoming an expensive hobby and chatting to some like minded people on here. Luke
  15. So I'm a newbie to the world of good coffee. I used to have a Delonghi bean to cup, but have taken the plunge and purchased a BT! I've read a lot and taken the advice on buying decent beans (Just signed up try Pact) and the process of brewing a decent espresso. In the mean time I am using some Union beans that were roasted 2 weeks ago so should be reasonable for my first batch of coffee? I've started with a Grind Setting of 10, 15 second grind which seems to tamp into the portafilter nicely at a weight of 19g. I am however getting very bitter coffee which starts to pour at around 5 seconds and if I let it continue for 30 seconds I end up with about 70g of coffee. (I understand it should be a ratio of about 1:2 or 1:25?) From what I understand if it is bitter it means the coffee is over extracted, which means I should grind coarser beans or reduce brew time, however given the quantity coming out it suggests that I should also be using finer grinds to slow down the extraction as I understood a 30 second extraction was about right? Does it mean I'm not tamping with enough pressure? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Luke
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