filthynines

James does a great job with the Moccamaster with our Bom Jesus - it's delicious. Thanks very much for sharing! Gareth (@Coffee by the Casuals)

The Decent machines? Well they do list every part they use as a spare that can be purchased, so hopefully a little better than Sage…

I would imagine what is heard by different people depends largely on what parts they’re after. Decent are getting bespoke stuff made and rejecting swathes of it as being unfit for purpose or cosmetically poor.

John at Decent has been saying for a long time that post-Covid manufacturing of anything has been a pain. QC has been hugely challenging - the stuff they’ve rejected would fill a landfill in itself. If you’re not an experienced manufacturer (or extremely well-funded) it sounds like it’s a nightmare.

I once read an article by somebody (possibly Seth Godin) that basically said: Kickstarter is not for starting projects, it's for finishing them. In other words: if you have a following you can successfully execute a crowdfunder. But if you're trying to gain the following and the traction from the crowdfunding effort itself then you're onto a loser. Without seeing stats I think there's a lot to be said for that. This project is a very big risk for any backer. It doesn't help that I suspect lockdown led many to take the plunge on their first proper espresso machine or their next big upgrade, and the market is now largely satisfied. Obviously those with premium products can still win customers, but not a great time for a newcomer. Then again, when is there a good time for a new business?

I think there’s a near-zero chance this funds now. 90% to go in a handful of days.

Thanks for sharing this, @General-S-1. I haven't yet mentioned this initiative on the forum. I'll have to post about it soon...

I went through a significant phase of consuming almost exclusively Brazilian coffee when we were profiling our Bom Jesus. Stripping away all of the bells and whistles of descriptors, sometimes having a nice coffee-tasting-coffee is all you need in a morning.

From memory I think the concern was raised by a compliance officer who was concerned that a child might grab the tablet, power on the machine, and then turn on the steam wand/group head and douse themselves in boiling water. That led to version 1.3 of the Decent which disabled the “Start Shot” button on the tablet and required a physical touch on the group head to start anything at all. I agree with @Mrboots2u that it is likely that this same problem will need addressing in the same way before it hits the market.

I think precisely zero machine manufacturers will be losing sleep over this.

To answer the actual question in the thread, I think it will have to be a flat otherwise there's little point in differentiating. Niche is so popular for one reason: it is the best single-dose conical grinder in its price bracket. The next step will be best single-dose flat in its price bracket. But for now they are making money hand over fist doing one thing very very well.

Some can express an opinion, others can ask why do you care, and others still can ask why do you care that they care? It all gets a bit circular at that point.

I also agree with @Mrb2020. I either started a thread or hijacked the Niche thread some time ago to make those exact points. FWIW, my opinion then in my capacity as a lawyer - and it hasn't changed - is that there would be a good case to be made that the Consumer Rights Act 2015 applies to all Niche transactions despite the fact that they are being framed as crowdfunding. It's no longer taking a flyer on a potential future product; it's now pay money and receive in a month's time. That's not crowdfunding, that's just retail. It's a moot point. There's hardly going to be a VW-style class action. As I acknowledged at the time: the customer service seems great, the product is excellent. I did wonder at one point whether VAT was being paid since it wasn't on my invoice, but I think I received confirmation that they do pay VAT over to HMRC. edit: Thinking about it: now they're having the restricted supply, there might be a benefit to having the "announcements" feature that seems to come with IG. Every couple of months I seem to get a notification from them that might be useful if I was in a queue.

I'm not sure whether the queue data has improved since my purchase this time last year, but I found the queue to be useless at telling me when I might expect my machine. I went up and down the queue a few times before I received my machine.

A question of scale, I suppose. A zero waste shop in Birmingham has a Minor Figures refilling machine. But Oatly > Minor Figures in all cases.