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Thread: Decent espresso

  1. #1021
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    Quote Originally Posted by bachamp View Post
    I had the same thought and even talked about how we might even be able to calculate the rate of extraction if we could measure it accurately enough.
    But then realised that the volume in the portafilter will always be consistent, so any solids extracted will be replaced by water. So "ml in" = "ml out", just that "ml in" is just hot water, and "ml out" is espresso. There will be a slight difference in "g in" compared to "g out" due to density difference, but it's not going to be much.
    Scott Rao, in our internal conversation, had the same thought. It's not clear that it's impossible yet, but it's not going to be easy.

    Besides needing very accurate flow measurements (we're talking about a 4g difference here, assuming 20% extraction of a 20g puck) we simply don't know how the water-carrying-capacity of a coffee puck works. Water pockets might be forming, or collapsing, during extraction. Mostly-cellulose-remaining coffee grinds might hold more (or less) water as measured by remaining coffee material.

    However, Ray has a physics-model calculation of "puck resistance" that takes both flow and pressure into account, and we do plan on giving that number to the user in a future version, as well as charting it in real time.

    If this number is accurate, it will give us insight into % of erosion at any point in the shot, which is another way of thinking about extraction percent.
    Last edited by decent_espresso; 14 Hours Ago at 04:44.

  2. #1022
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    Default the build schedule

    Quote Originally Posted by roastini View Post
    Have the ceramics arrived? Have the sheet metal parts been ordered? In the chain of dependencies for the supply line for parts, what is the chain that extends out the furthest, and what is the current best estimate of a date for the end of that chain? My real question is: Is there a fairly solid target date for assembly at this point, and if so what is it? If not, what are the unknowns that prevent a solid target date? (To be clear, I'm not trying to cast blame or anything like that, I'm just in search of data re when a DE1+ ordered from the original batch of 300 might arrive, in the US. If it matters, I'm in the 50% down payment group.)
    The ceramics were ordered a while ago, and were supposed to arrive this past week. They're "in the mail", is what we've been told, and should arrive this week.

    We haven't ordered the drip tray cover yet, because we found too much variability on the drip tray, and wanted to wait until the real McCoy showed up and we could see what we were really dealing with. Since it's a cast piece, it will take 30 days for the cast, and 35 days then for delivery. This makes it one of the very last pieces we're expecting (end of November) but the good news is that it does not delay the rest of assembly.

    Bear in mind that currently, it takes us about 30 man hours to build one DE1. With 8 people here, even if they're all working on it full time, that would be 10 machines shipping per week, hence 30 weeks. Obviously, we're going to hire people to help, but keep in mind that assembly will take time too. And, totally assembly time will be less than 30h, since we'll be making things in batches. A lot of the v4 chassis changes were to simply assembly and reduce disassembly/repair time.

    The heaters are being ordered next week, and are to take 30 days. They're the most important part, because they go in the center of the machine, and if we don't have them, they prevent the rest of the machine from being built. We were not happy to find a 15% defect rate in the 40 samples we had ordered from our supplier, and so we have switched to a heater manufacturer recommended to us by ODE. As ODE has been exclusively in the espresso parts business for decades, we tend to follow their advice. We tested their heaters for the first time in our v3 machine and they look good.

    The all-metal chassis has not yet been ordered, as we are waiting for the v4 chassis to be CNCed and arrive here for final testing. That will be ordered in mid-October, and there is a 30 day lead time on that. There were 38 changes from v3 to v4, none of them "risky" but they do need to be seen & tested before we build 300 machines. For example, we added 5mm to the depth of the DE1, because we found that once it was fully assembled, the fit was too tight to remove the low-voltage PCB for repair purposes (a fan got in the way). You had to remove the pumps to remove the PCBs and that would annoy the heck out of a repair person.

    So... to succinctly answer your question, parts will start arriving early November, and we'll start by first quality-control testing each part. Then, we'll put together the sub assemblies that we can, as the parts arrive. Ideally, the chassis will arrive mid-November and the sub-assemblies will slide right in.

    The biggest worry I have at the moment for schedule slippage is the mixing chamber, which is by far the most sophisticated part in the machine, is CNCed from a somewhat exotic material (Ultem) and requires two suppliers (CNC and custom valves) to work together. That's supposed to arrive between 7 to 9 weeks from now.

    And of course, the other concern is that Christmas is arriving, and as a relatively small company, our orders might get bumped in our supplier's schedule, to make space for "more important" clients.

    The 110V "early access" machines already sold will go out first, while we wait for the testing lab to certify our "final release" and 220V machines. We expect the testing to take 2 months.

    Nonetheless, we're very close to the end of this journey, and espresso machines will soon be shipping.

    And the good news is that once we know how to build 300 machines, we'll be in a good position to build the next 1000 machines at a much faster rate.
    Last edited by decent_espresso; 14 Hours Ago at 04:38.

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